Comments and questions from David North...

I model 1985 and was re-reading Stephen Priest’s boxcar book and remembered that most of the reefer classes that Bob mentioned were converted to boxcars around 1979.

Rr-54 converted to Bx-201          over 9 cars 1979-1987

Rr-56 converted to Bx-202           over 67 cars 1979-1987

Rr-60 converted to Bx-203           over 6 cars 1979-1987

Rr-61 converted to Bx-204           over 15 cars 1979-1987

Rr-65 converted to Bx-205           over 40 cars 1979-1987

Rr-66 converted to Bx-195*         over 600 cars 1979-1991

*Bx-195 class consisted of Rr-66, 69 & 71 conversions

So I’d be happy with any of the above classes, provided the body mods were minimal.

Does anyone know what body modifications were made when the cars were converted?

Cheers

Dave

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 5:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Those are great shots, Eldon.

Here’s a link to a 1923 GM Hopkins plat map that shows the buildings Eldon mentions. There seems to be a Morris & Co. operation across 21^st Street from the Armour building.

Blockedhttps://arcg.is/1CfrCq0

I was unaware the PRR Whitehall branch went down 21^st Street. That has lots of layout potential, especially for a pre-1930s era.

BTW, if you zoom out to view more of that map, I cannot guarantee you will accomplish anything else today. Stay hydrated while you explore an earlier Pittsburgh.

Or, maybe “Have a Duke!” since the brewery was on the Whitehall branch.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

Eric and all;

The attached are from my historical research files I have worked a long time on, on the Mon Valley in and upstream of Pittsburgh.  These are from the South Side across the Mon from downtown Pittsburgh.  The first 3 are the track side of the combined retail store and wholesale Armour Meats operation.  You can still see:  the Supervisor’s cupola, office and residence, the unloading dock (although the unloading rail is missing), and retail store side.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21^st Street on which I was standing.

The last shot is the similar Swift Meats operation, right across East Carson Street.  By this time, the small triangular unloading dock had been demolished, although you can see the doorway.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21^st Street. 

Cars for both originated out of 30^th Street Yard in the upper South Side, dropped off by transfers from other local Pgh yards.  As Eric said, they were priority switching jobs.

Old timers told me about the switching of both plants, which tied up traffic to the annoyance of locals.  Many recalled the colorful reefers hosted at each, and how often it occurred.

There were similar but smaller ops upstream at Brownsville, also, and at Fairmont,  IIRC on the Monongahela Railway.

When shown photos of Armour and Swift reefers, folks’ faces would light up, and they’d go, “Yeah, just like that!”.

I don’t think many realize how prevalent this was in many locales.

Elden Gatwood

Attached is part of a Sanborn Fire Insurance map of Fairmont, W. Va. There’s an Armour branch house in the building complex on the left side. This was located on the 1.25 mile Fairmont Belt Line branch of the B&O. The B&O main can be seen in the lower right corner and the connection was just to the right off the map. Fairmont had a population around 20,000 people when this 1927 Sanborn map was created.

Based upon tales of former B&O yard workers, service for the Armour customer was a high priority. When a meat reefer arrived in Fairmont for this branch house, it was immediately switched to the spur.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

Gang;

It was amazing to me when doing research on my area how many community meat wholesale operations there were, literally all over the place.  In my area, mostly Armour and Swift, but also others.  They were where the reefers arrived with sides of beef, etc., and where they processed the large pieces into smaller cuts for trucking to local butchers.  Look into this, and you may be astonished at what you find.  I was!

Elden Gatwood

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Brach houses were pretty much the standard presence of name brand meats here on the west coast and AFAIK Doug’s description below is spot on.

There is one more business to note regarding meat traffic and that’s Cold Storage houses.  They’d store anything needing refrigeration, including meats.  One large facility that’s probably overlooked is the Naval Supply Center in Oakland.   They shipped all the non-explosive needs into the Pacific theater for decades  and they had a large cold storage house as well. 

It’s plausible that large military bases regularly received meat reefers.  I  do not know who the military bought meat from but I would not be surprised if several packers sold to them – cured pork from one, sides of beef from others, pork or lamb sides from other companies.

Dave Nelson

Eldon the major meat packers: Swift, Armour, Wilson, Cudahy all had branch houses scattered across the country. The Branch Houses would receive carcasses, ie swinging meat, from the slaughter houses, then “process” the carcass into various meat cuts. These cuts then went to grocery concerns, meat markets, restaurants, institutions ie hospitals, prisons, etc. where they might be further cut down into steaks, chops, roasts, ground meat, etc. Some slaughter operations were full processing plants, where cold cuts, sausage, etc was made. But branch houses could also have this responsibility.

Note a branch house would only receive reefers from their respective slaughter house. However a grocery warehouse or cold storage facility would have reefers from all the meat packers.

Eldon the major meat packers: Swift, Armour, Wilson, Cudahy all had branch houses scattered across the country. The Branch Houses would receive carcasses, ie swinging meat, from the slaughter houses, then “process” the carcass into various meat cuts. These cuts then went to grocery concerns, meat markets, restaurants, institutions ie hospitals, prisons, etc. where they might be further cut down into steaks, chops, roasts, ground meat, etc. Some slaughter operations were full processing plants, where cold cuts, sausage, etc was made. But branch houses could also have this responsibility.

Note a branch house would only receive reefers from their respective slaughter house. However a grocery warehouse or cold storage facility would have reefers from all the meat packers.

How many cars per train on average, and were trains dispatched both the East and West on different days? Were they solid blocks of Morrell cars? Where they strictly meat trains or did they include other freight or livestock? I knew about the Morrell plant in Ottumwa, and I’d like to model the Morrell train through Burlington on the way to Galesburg and points East.

Nelson Moyer

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_

Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:

    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 

So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 

my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars

listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 

just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.

 

    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who

they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some

time ago to add variety to a reefer block.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts