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Re: Meat reefers
Nelson Moyer
I built the Sunshine kit (15.1), and it was cast in the old yellow resin – thick and brittle. The running board supports had to be built up using 1x2 styrene strips, and it was royal PITA. The steel NA leases from 1954 are too late for me. Maybe Frank could be persuaded to do the 42 ft. car with etched metal running board supports. I’d be good for at least ten cars.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 9:23 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
Morrell also had a slaughter house in Estherville Iowa, purchased from Tobin in 1953. Tobin purchased it in 1937 for hog slaughter, from the Estherville Packing Co. who built in the plant in 1935. Morrell then built a second plant in Estherville in 1962/3 for beef slaughter.
To my knowledge Morrell never used any 37’ Mather reefers, so the Red Caboose car will not do except as stand in. For an authentic Morrell Mather reefer you need the Sunshine 42’ meat reefer kit #15.1 Morrell leased reefers from North American. From notes: John Greedy says “Morrell leased new built steel reefers in 1954 from North American in the 300 series possibly intermixed with cars leased to Hormel. These cars had a distinctive horizontal seam between the sheathing.”
Doug Harding
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of Ted Schnepf
Hi Bill and Nelson, On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 02:31:29 PM CDT, William Hirt <whirt@...> wrote:
Nelson, Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say. Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange. Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer. Bill Hirt On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote: Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.
Nelson Moyer
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of William Hirt
The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know. The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am. The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm. The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm. The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm. On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up. Bill Hirt On_._,_
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Re: Meat reefers
Todd Sullivan
And ... I just happen to have a few photos taken in 2015 of the old Morrell branch house in Syracuse. It is located on Erie Blvd on the near east side, and was probably switched by the DL&W on the back side (Tracy Street). The cast-in date over the door says it was built in 1936. Photos of the front (customer) side and back (track side) are attached.
Todd Sullivan
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Re: Meat reefers
PHP (Packing House Products) consisted of far more than hanging meat, as Bill points out. There was canned meat, processed meat (think sausage, bacon, lunch meat, etc), meat by-products and meat scraps (ie pet food), dried blood, whole blood, hides, paunch (stomach contents), tallow, lard, other oils and grease, tankage, fertilizer, manure, and the list goes on.
The Decker plant killed 5200 head a day, and filled about 25 reefers a day with PHP plus the boxcars and tank cars. Rath in Waterloo, set a record filling 125 cars with PHP in one day. Rath at the time was the largest slaughter operation in the world “under one roof”.
Steve Sandifer, estimated 16-20 reefers of beef quarters from a plant slaughtering 2000 head of cattle a day. He also estimated about 7 other cars each day.
Figure about 2 stockcars in for each reefer out, remembering that a large number of animals came in via truck.
My reference to 50 car trains was from a Illinois Central practice. The IC often sent two or three sections of their meat train out of Waterloo to Chicago each night. Waterloo was their collecting point for meat from Omaha, Sioux City, Mason City, Fort Dodge, and other places as well as Waterloo.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 2:31 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
Nelson, Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say. Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange. Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer. Bill Hirt On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
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Re: Meat reefers
Morrell also had a slaughter house in Estherville Iowa, purchased from Tobin in 1953. Tobin purchased it in 1937 for hog slaughter, from the Estherville Packing Co. who built in the plant in 1935. Morrell then built a second plant in Estherville in 1962/3 for beef slaughter.
To my knowledge Morrell never used any 37’ Mather reefers, so the Red Caboose car will not do except as stand in. For an authentic Morrell Mather reefer you need the Sunshine 42’ meat reefer kit #15.1 Morrell leased reefers from North American. From notes: John Greedy says “Morrell leased new built steel reefers in 1954 from North American in the 300 series possibly intermixed with cars leased to Hormel. These cars had a distinctive horizontal seam between the sheathing.”
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ted Schnepf
Hi Bill and Nelson, On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 02:31:29 PM CDT, William Hirt <whirt@...> wrote:
Nelson, Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say. Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange. Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer. Bill Hirt On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote: Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know. The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am. The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm. The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm. The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm. On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up. Bill Hirt On_._,_
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Re: Meat reefers
Ted Schnepf
Hi Bill and Nelson, I dug out my 1954 Moody's Industrial's book. Morrell had three US p;ants at the time. Ottumwa was the largest 1.9 mil sq ft,, followed by Sioux Falls at 1.4 mil sq ft, and Topeka Kansas. The annual slaughter was 4.5 million hogs, cattle and sheep per year for the three plants. Branch houses were located in Los Angles, Oakland Ca, St Paul, Mineapolis, Duluth, Fargo, ND, Memphis, Mobil, Al, Philadelphia, Syrarcus, NY, Aberdeen, SD and Liverpool, England. Morrell started in England in 1827. Ottumwa also had a company creamery and the Red Heart dog food plant. "Company opwns about 550 reefers and tanks cars and leases additional reefers"
On Thursday, April 9, 2020, 02:31:29 PM CDT, William Hirt <whirt@...> wrote: Nelson, Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say. Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange. Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer. Bill Hirt On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote: Thanks, Bill. I’ve been collecting meat reefers to model these trains, but I only have one Morrell reefer so far. It was built from the old Sunshine kit. It sounds like I need at least nine more for the Morrell traffic. I was hoping someone had a wheel report for one of those trains to see if they had stock cars or general merchandise to fill out a train. It’s hard to believe that Morrell could generate 50-70 cars per day during the week.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of William Hirt
The May 1951 Ottumwa and Creston Division Employee Timetable shows that CB&Q Train 74 (labeled Daily except Sunday Meat) was scheduled to leave Ottumwa at 5:45 pm and arrive Galesburg at 9:45 pm. There was no equivalent scheduled train westbound. I suspect extras brought back empty reefers to Ottumwa to balance power. Whether the eastbound train carried anything but meat I do not know. The South Omaha Daily Meat (symboled LC) left Council Bluffs Yard at 4:30 pm, arrived Ottumwa 1:45 am and departed 2:00 am, and arrived Galesburg at 5:30 am. The March 1952 Galesburg Division Employee Timetable showed Train 70 (Daily Meat) departing Galesburg at 7:00 am arriving Peoria at 9:15 am. It's counterpart appears to be Train 91 (Daily Merchandise) which left Peoria at 11:00 am and arrived Galesburg 1:30 pm. The September 1951 Chicago and Aurora Division Employee Timetable shows Train LC (Daily Omaha Kansas City St. Joe Meat) departing Galesburg 8:00 am, arriving Congress Park 1:00 pm (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde 1:30 pm. The Ottumwa Meat had it's own train on this division. Train 74A (Daily Ottumwa Meat) departed Galesburg at 11:30 pm, arriving Congress Park at 3:45 am (to make set out for IHB) and then arrives Clyde at 4:15 pm. On the Chicago and Aurora Division, there were eight scheduled eastbounds and and six scheduled westbounds. So it is hard to match trains up. Bill Hirt On_._,_
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Re: Meat reefers
They are around at shows all the time. Picked one up in October 2019.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Brian J. Carlson
On Apr 9, 2020, at 8:42 PM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
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Re: Meat reefers
Eric Hansmann
I don’t think the Red Caboose Mather reefers have been produced for almost a decade.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
On Apr 9, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:
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Inverse ends
Schuyler Larrabee
Is anyone making inverse ends, specifically inverse dreadnaught and/or inverse Hutchins ends?
There are a few cars that I have long wanted to model that require such ends, but AFAIK they have not been made. But with the small shops that make resin parts, I may have missed them.
Thanks for any help on this.
Schuyler
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Re: Meat reefers
william darnaby
There are 5 photos of Morrell 40ft Mather reefers in the Refrigerator Car Color Guide by Morning Sun. If you model reefers you really need this book.
Bill Darnaby
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:22 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft. Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful.
Cordially, Don Valentine
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Re: Meat reefers
Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
I was about to point out that Morrell used a LOT of Mather meat reefers and Red Caboose has offered one for some years that seems to match many photos fairly well. BUT these are 36 ft. reefers. Didn't Morrell also use some 40 ft. Mather cars as well? I've got a foot of file cabinet space o this stuff gong back 20 years as Doug Harding is aware. Need to find some time to dig into it. Incidentally the meat packers that were most helpful in offereing info on tier rail operations and equipment in that period were Hormel and Oscar Mayer, othof which were quite helpful. Cordially, Don Valentine
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Re: Pittsburgh photos
David Soderblom
I knew, absolutely KNEW, somebody would nit me on that. About as life-threatening as getting the journal box cover misidentified. Let’s just agree on Eastern something, with the onion domes.
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Re: Meat reefers
Dennis Storzek
It's photos like this that makes one wonder if the ends initially remained FCR, same as the roof. I know dirty red can be mistaken for FC color, but the white lettering and fascia don't look all that dirty.
Dennis Storzek
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Re: Pittsburgh photos
Tony Thompson
David Soderblom wrote:
I agree with the modelability, David, but IIRC that's a Greek Orthodox church. One of the Pittsburghers on the list can correct me if that's wrong. Tony Thompson
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Pittsburgh photos
David Soderblom
Thanks so much; there are so many scenes that beg to be simulated in scale. I wouldn’t care to do the Russian Orthodox church, but there are all those lovely details: the combination of concrete and stone walls; the general grunge; the excavation in the brick-paved
street; the (almost) 3-way street turnout, but not with girder rail; the riverside scenes.
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Re: Freight car roofs, 1959
Tom Madden
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 01:10 PM, D. Scott Chatfield wrote:
Have been systematically scanning my slides going back to 1968. Here's one from September 1962, stopped for a passing CB&Q freight in Edgemont SD on our way from the Black Hills to Colorado and just had to take a photo from the car window. Sure enough, a round roof NP auto car just made it into the frame at the right edge. Brock's Law prevails! Tom Madden
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Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo
ed_mines
My recollection is that the car was a one-of-a-kind with experimental sides. Can't remember how I know this. I've seen this photo or a similar one several times before, maybe in a CBC or Trainshed
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Re: Meat reefers
Nelson Moyer
Those stock cars of hogs answered the question about livestock in meat trains, and the FGEX produce reefer means that those trains weren’t all meat. I’ll check out the Red Caboose model. All this is very helpful.
Nelson Moyer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]
On Behalf Of William Hirt
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2020 2:31 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers
Nelson, Doug Harding can answer this question better. Morrell did daily (except Sunday) slaughter of cattle, hogs and sheep. And besides hanging sides of such, they also had packaged meats, dog food (Red Heart), hides (which were a high tariff commodity), canned meats, etc. I found a postcard that claimed Morrell could slaughter 2 million head of livestock a year in Ottumwa. So that would be almost 6,900 head a day. So how many cars that translates to someone more knowledgeable than I will need to say. Looking at some 1959 CB&Q switchlists that Russ Strotz posted on the Railway Bull Shippers list about 10 years ago, it appears on average 7 MORX reefers were forwarded to the IHB at Congress Park each day. How many went to Chicago proper or went to Peoria for forwarding is unknown. Attached is a July 31 1959 consist of 1st LC departing Galesburg for Clyde yard. Also set outs for April 5 1959 at Congress Park. It was an active interchange. Take a look for the Red Caboose Morrell Mather reefer. Bill Hirt On 4/9/2020 1:40 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
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Re: Freight car roofs, 1959
Jack Mullen
Seriously, $79.99 ?!?
But I do like the deteriorated and patched flatcar deck in the fg. Jack Mullen
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Re: DL&W Boxcar 49488 Photo
mopacfirst
I don't know anything about this car specifically. But I went back and looked carefully at it, and the vertical ribs appear to be equally spaced in each panel. If they're really there, perhaps it was an experiment to stiffen each panel. Exactly what problem this was supposed to solve is not obvious.
The artifacts on the roof could actually be rooflines of a building that weren't cropped out. And the 'box' near the rear truck, I believe is a panel that some railroads had installed in front of the triple valve to protect it from damage. I remain eagerly awaiting hearing from anyone who has actual knowledge of this experiment. Ron Merrick
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Re: Meat reefers
Don't know if this one has been up before,
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SRLX-Swift-Reefer-Box-Car-in-California-in-1950s-Original-Slide-e4b/324108985029?hash=item4b7666a2c5:g:YM4AAOSwlPleSaKG Dan Smith
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