Date   

Re: SP&S Freight Cars from Salvaged Freight Car

David Turner
 

Thanks for the great listing of cars salvaged by the SP&S.

The records may need to be updated in the case of the source car for the refer X-356 shown below that was salvaged from the derailment in the Canyon in June 1945 along with FGE 31660 that became X-357.

One reference that I've seen says that it was N&W 84300, but N&W was already a member of FGE consortium by that date and the ORER shows that there were no refers in that number series on N&W.

However, another source says that the car salvaged was NWX 84300.  NWX is a refer subsidiary of the Chicago & Northwestern RR.  ORER lists 84300 among its refers at that time. I modeled X-356 based upon a NWX car.

David Turner

regarding:

SP&S Freight Cars from Salvaged Freight Cars
From: Richard Wilkens<railsnw123@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:19:47 PDT

Here is a list of the foreign road cars that were wrecked on the SP&S and were salvaged and rebuilt for maintenance of way and commercial service. This list does not include the hundreds of freight cars purchased from parent roads GN & NP as well as the hundreds of second hand drop bottom gondolas purchased to be converted to woodchip cars.

Rich Wilkens

Snip----



FGE 31660 to SP&S X-357 (Ice car, end bunkers removed), MOW, AFE 7617, June 1945

and

N&W 84300 to SP&S X-356 (Ice car, end bunkers removed), MOW, AFE 7617, June 1945


--


Re: Kadee brake wheel (was Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068)

Don DeLay
 

Red Caboose SP F-70-7 flatcar


Re: Kadee brake wheel (was Adding some color to the fright car roster UP #57068)

Don DeLay
 

I put them on my Red Caboose SP F-70-7 flatcars. If you so much as look at the stock brake wheels wrong, they'll break, lol!

Don DeLay


Re: June 1941. "Railroad yards. Milwaukee, WI

Kirk Reddie
 

Great photo!
My guess is the 2nd to the left is the earliest scheme (1928-- out of receivership), the one on the left is next. I think this scheme was used in 1934, at least with car 714305-- the round roof rebuild). I think the car third to the left is in the 1937+ scheme... though I'm not sure as I thought this was the scheme for 40' and 50' XA double door cars. But it would be a repaint so maybe they were more flexible on repaints, especially old double sheathed cars.

I have no idea what to think about the roofs. They could have been built by different builders... the 1928 single sheathed cars had quite a few builders.. and maybe they are original. But the one on the left, in my eyes, matches the roofs of cars farther to the right... but the 2 cars to the immediate right look like old pre-batton roofs? I don't usually care much about all the minitua but the roofs are quite noticiable.

Now I see vertical break wheels on both types of roofs. But the 'roofwalks' on the ends of the running boards look different for each style? 

I only know this from having an NTRAK module at the Tacoma mall years ago... 1980s I think. It was great having Milwaukee equipment as there were a lot of ex-employees walking around. I had a bunch of ~1928 type cars that had Murphy panel roofs... which I knew was wrong for the Milwaukee but I liked them and they were close enough for me at the time. One of the passerbys was asking about the models and I told him I figured the roofs were wrong. He put out his hands that had some scars on them. He said he used to work for the MIlwaukee and had cut up his hands replacing wood roofs on Milwaukee cars with metal roofs. So I became more interested in having a variety of plausible roofs.

Looking at more running boards, to me it looks like most are wood. Even the steel ribbed car on the left hand side-- to my eyes-- has a wood running board. So the switch from metal to wood running boards on Milwaukee ribbed cars must have come quick if this shot was from June 1941.

Anyway.. inspiring image. Thanks!  --Kirk Reddie 


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Randy Hammill
 

Well, that was pretty much our intent with our proposed Bx-11/12/13, etc. project. And Rapido pretty consistently releases many road specific details for their locomotives, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider it a possibility.

Granted, the URSA DS project would be enormous if they did take that route, and with a traditional manufacturing approach a bit more of a challenge.

That’s one of the things we hope to address with our projects. With no risk of insufficient sales (we’re either funded or not), and building exclusively to order, we hope to be able to do projects that address these types of more specific details. It’s just not something that has been done much with freights cars.

The Atlas 1932 ARA car was a step in that direction. Intermountain keeps adding variations to their AAR series of box cars, and their AAR hoppers cover a number of specific prototypes, including a single road bolster.

Regardless, I’m looking forward to the Rapido cars and also seeing what Bill Welch, Ted Culotta, and others do with them.

 Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: More WP West Coast Meat Reefer Data

Douglas Harding
 

Kingan used KRLX reporting marks in 1920 on cars built by ACF. In later years they leased reefers from National Car Company NX and General American GARX, with those reporting marks. Photos of the P/L scheme you seek are in the RP CYC #14

 

Hygrade purchased Kingan in 1952, and you will see cars with KRGN reporting marks and the Hygrade logo.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Barry
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 5:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] More WP West Coast Meat Reefer Data

 

Garth,

 

Thank you for your informative post.   It has helped me identify additional potential traffic for my 1944 Richmond CA based layout.  From a pair of SP industry maps (1928 & 48), we can identify a Kingan house on the SF Belt that is a prime suspect for car float transfers from Richmond.  The 48 map has a second Kingan location served by the SP.

 

That's the good news.  The bad news (for me at least) is that the KGNX reporting mark does not show up in the 1945 and earlier ORERs, although it does show under General American in the 1953 edition KGNX 3500-3599 100 RSM cars.  The Rapido site claims the KGNX cars were built in 1940 and in a 1950's scheme.  Does anyone know how these were marked in 44-45?  GARX, URLX?  Kingan?  

 

And yes, NSD Oakland's cold storage warehouse is a trump card that makes probable almost any meat reefer that was running in 1944.  I mey even have to upgrade and weather that ancient Mantua Kahn's car that was one of the first kits that I built circa 1970.  

 

John Barry

 

ATSF North Bay Lines 

Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

Lovettsville, VA

 

707-490-9696 

 

PO Box 44736 

Washington, DC 20026-4736

 

 

On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 07:22:15 AM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

 

 

Good Friends,

 

After my response to RJ about west coast meat reefer traffic, I decided to parse WP Circular 167-E to see what else could be gleaned from that document about meat traffic. This is not like having real train consists, but does give some ideas about where the cars went and possibly how important, or unimportant, this traffic was. The circular lists all WP/SN/TS/CCT/OT/ABL customers as of 1957, as well as SP/ATSF/UP/Shortline customers in joint switching districts, or where cars would have been received or delivered to/from other roads for local delivery. As such, it doesn't tell us much about traffic on those other railroads, just the possibility of WP interchanging meat reefers there.

 

So on the WP itself we have 12 destinations for "PHP" (packing house products) or "meat". I wonder if the difference was that "meat" meant animal carcasses for further processing, while "PHP" was pre-packaged meat products, or possibly still unpackaged but processed products which would be wrapped for sale at the destination. In addition, there were 8 destinations for "groceries", meaning general grocery wholesalers, or distribution centers owned by large chains (like Safeway) which might have received meat products along with other food shipments. There was also 1 receiver of poultry products. All these customers had sidings with a total of 45 spots, which says something about how much traffic they received (most appear to be small re-distribution centers with just one or two spots--very model railroad-sized operations). I noted that generally the grocery wholesalers had more spots than the meat distribution centers.

 

On WP's subsidiary Sacramento Northern (SN) there were 2 grocery wholesalers with a total of 12 spots. The Tidewater Southern (TS) contributed 1 grocery house with 4 spots. There no customers who received only PHP or meat.

 

There were no PHP or grocery customers listed for WP's partial subsidiaries Oakland Terminal Railway (OT), Central California Traction Co. (CCT) or Alameda Belt Line (ABL).

 

In addition, some customers received their shipments at team tracks, which are not listed as specific to any road, and have no spot counts. 11 customers received PHP or meat via team tracks, with 7 more grocery wholesalers and 4 poultry wholesalers/processors. I presume by this time, the poultry was dressed, not live. I did not count the few customers who received eggs, nor did I count on-line slaughter houses, most of which were fairly small and likely would have received live animals for local consumption and probably did not ship meat anywhere else.

 

By contrast, the SP had 12 customers for PHP/meat traffic, 6 grocery wholesalers, and 3 poultry receivers, and had sidings totalling 80 spots. ATSF contributed 1 grocery wholesaler with just 1 spot. The UP had 1 grocery wholesaler with 2 spots. The situation isn't exactly clear in Salt Lake City, with the WP/D&RGW/UP sharing joint switching at a former arms plant converted to an industrial park that included several possible customers. I put all those under WP above. In addition, there were 10 grocery wholesalers on connecting shortlines or terminal switching operations with a total of 16 spots.

 

Now as to the customers themselves, I found 10 nationally known companies represented with their own distribution centers. Below, these list the railroad, products listed, and number of spots. I'm not sure what "AT" means. It pops up in several different cities in the railroad code space, but it not defined the book's abbreviations section. Likely it's short for "ATSF"; if so the book uses both abbreviations. Somebody mentioned military shipments, and I did not think to include these destinations, but  some bases would have received shipments, and the Oakland Army Base was a major supply depot for Pacific overseas installations.

 

Armour--Sacramento (SP-meat, 10); San Francisco (2 SP locations-PHP and meat at both, 2, 4)

Cudahy--Oakland (WP-PHP, 1); Salt Lake City (WP/D&RGW/UP-PHP, 9); San Francisco (State Belt RR-PHP, 2)

Dubuque--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 10)

Hahn--San Francisco (WP-meat, 1)

Hormel--San Francisco (WP-PHP and canned goods, 4)

Kingan--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 3)

Krey--San Francisco (not sure if this one is national; WP-PHP, 1)

Morrell--Oakland (WP-PHP, 3)

Rath--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4)

Swift--Oakland (WP-PHP, 2); Reno (SP-PHP, 1); Sacramento (SP-meat, 2); San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4); Stockton (AT (ATSF?)-PHP, 10)

 

So obviously, there was west coast meat traffic. This sample mostly includes the WP, and SP's destinations in major central and northern California locations. It does not account for UP or ATSF routes to Southern California, the SP in Oregon, or any north-south through traffic, such as westbound cars received by the GN over the WP's NCE (the "Inside Gateway"). It certainly gives modelers of west coast railroads like the WP and SP justification for including meat reefers in their trains, including packer-owned/leased cars. You wouldn't have seen long trains of meat reefers (unlike PFE fruit blocks)RJ will be happy that the WP likely handled meat reefers from Cudahy, Hahn, Hormel, Krey, Morrell and Swift, though probably only one or two at a time.

 

One more item. Somebody mentioned livestock shipments on the UP into Southern California. This would have been the famous UP hog trains that served the Farmer John's pork plant in the South Los Angles area, probably the last regular large railroad livestock operation in the US. I don't know that Farmer John shipped finished products back out by rail; certainly not when I drove a delivery truck near the plant after college in the 1970s. Farmer John's building and parking lot walls were famous for the murals of cavorting porcine creatures in hog heaven. What you couldn't see from the streets was the the back side of the building's murals (facing the Los Angeles River) showing the pigs being unloaded and hearded to their doom. Sinister.

 

Hope you enjoy "chewing" on this.

 

Now back to scanning negatives.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

 


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

spsalso
 

I am not very knowledgeable about the variations on these cars.  I do think that for the price, Rapido should do the "easy-peasy" mods.  The fascia strip appears to be such a thing. 


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: June 1941. "Railroad yards. Milwaukee, WI

Douglas Harding
 

Just about all meat packers used leased reefers from the 30s on. Those reefers could have the meat packers reporting marks or could have the reporting marks of the owner. Union Refrigeration, General American, Mather, North American were all major players in the leased meat reefer market. Even companies that had their own reporting marks, also used reefers with the owner’s reporting marks and the meat packers name or logo.

 

Dubuque, leased from several companies, including both Union Refrigeration and General American. I don’t have a color photo of a Dubuque meat reefer in the P/L as shown in the photo. But I do have a b/w photo, see attached.

 

URTX cars tended to be more orange, which can be verified by looking through Gene Green’s Refrigerator Color Guide by Morning Sun. This book has the later Dubuque scheme, but not the earlier P/L as seen in the 1941 MILW yard photo.

 

Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #14 has photos of General American Meat reefers, including a photo of  car leased to Dubuque on p. 90. It is not lettered for Dubuque and has URTX reporting marks. Remember General American purchased Union Refrigeration in 1929.

 

Note the color variations on the two MDT reefers just beyond the Northern Refrigerator Car Co reefer.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Barry
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 4:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] June 1941. "Railroad yards. Milwaukee, WI

 

Also of note is the URTX meat reefer marked for Dubuque Packing Company.  What color is that, orange?  Very different from the adjacent Northern Refrigerator to the right or the Milwaukee branded car to the left.  And the dark lettering contrasts with the white seen on the tonally similar MILW boxes in the forground.   

 

John Barry

 

ATSF North Bay Lines 

Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

Lovettsville, VA

 

707-490-9696 

 

PO Box 44736 

Washington, DC 20026-4736

 

 

On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 02:03:13 PM EDT, John Larkin via groups.io <jflarkingrc@...> wrote:

 

 

That shot highlights 3 Milwaukee boxcars with 3 different paint schemes.  I'm not a Milwaukee expert by any means but the cars appear to be built to the same plan.  That's one of the best pix I've ever seen illustrating how paint schemes can vary on what appears to be identical cars.

 

John Larkin

 

On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 12:09:21 PM CDT, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:

 

 


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

mel perry
 

don't forget the NWP?
mel perry


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

C'mon Dave,

    I don't think that many B&M modelers, especially of your caliber, will have that much difficulty adding the
fascis strip. Others will simply ignore its lack of presence. But let's all ask ourselves an honest question. Is it
really realistic to expent anyone producing models of a prototype originally constructed prior to WW II, in this 
case a full 20 years earlier, and used by a vast number of roads to produce EXACT models for every railroad 
that that still rostered any of them in the post-WW II period up to the 1960 end date of this list???  If so such
a modeler needs a serious dose of reality as its a pretty ridiculous expectation. You are now out in Santa Fe
territory. IIRC correctly by the beginning of WW II almost all Santa Fe USRA double sheathed cars had been
rebuilt wth steel panel sides such as those offered by Youngstown. To carry your complaint to the expreme
if Rapido were to offer the USRA double sheathed with every modification that every road that ever owned 
such cars made they would have to offer Santa Fe models in the rebuilt form. Perhaps down the road they 
might but I believe Atlas has already addressed that modification. Again for the West Coast the Hill roads,
the GN, NP and SP&S, had thousands of these cars with few major modifications other than AB brakes in the
post war years. Thus those modeling those rads shoud be very happy to see these cars in the form in which
they are about to be offered. With the number and quality of new models we have seen in recent years about 
the only gripe I feel any of us should have is their continually increasing cost, which seems to be going up far 
faster than the average working persons wages.

Codially, Don Valentine


Re: Utah Coal Route steel gons in log service

espee4441
 

Most likely for paper and pulp as you mention. The "Aroma of Tacoma" mainly is no longer evident due to the major cessation of the mills. 

Port Townsend on the Olympic Peninsula has one too and they're on the last days of doing business if not outright closed. These mills always carry the distinctive smell and PT still has it. The MILW ran into and by this operation on its way to Port Angeles. As for logging the peninsula certain sections like the Duckabush must have been exceedingly challenging. I mtn bike the old roads and hillsides are incredibly steep. 

Tony Pawley


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

A&Y Dave in MD
 

This list is dominated by 1950’s era cars. Tables turned for we modelers of earlier eras usually removing AB brakes, finding appreciation  roofs etc.

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Apr 12, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Don't know why I would care about an as-built car Don when I am modeling 1955.

Bill Welch

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Dave,

You could always do one in GN. Their fleet was one of the longest lived in more or less original condition -- some cars were still in revenue service into the 1960s, with AB brakes, of course. IIRC, NYC still had some until after WWII, with a few of the remainer going to the TH&B. The 1950s were more problematical. When I was doing west coast, I limited myself to just two, GN and SP&S.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 5:54 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Bill Keene wrote:
This sounds like a good reason to pick up a number of undec cars, re-detail them along with painting and lettering. At least the starting point is good.
Except that it's really, really easy to over-represent the USRA cars if you are trying to build a prototypically accurate fleet.  In 1935 (my year of interest), only one in  ~16 B&M box cars was a USRA car.  It's the other 15 cars that pose the challenge.

I don't think  the percentages are much more favorable on any other road.  Remember, we are talking about 100,000 TOTAL cars (box, hopper, gon).

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Charles Peck
 

They were ALL "as-built" until some railroads started kit-bashing them.
Our turn now.
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 6:27 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
Don't know why I would care about an as-built car Don when I am modeling 1955.

Bill Welch


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Not sure why I would care about an as-built car Don when I am modeling 1955.

Also regarding the TH&B cars, after they were acquired from the parent New York Central they were rebuilt. This included re-fitting with what appears to be wood doors from the 50-ton SS USRA cars and the ladders had what I would describe as stiles applied to the sides with the drop grabs then re-installed on these stiles. The Rapido illustration does not as yet reflect these changes. The aforementioned facia boards are not shown either. Also keep in mind there were only two cars in the flashy Yellow & Black scheme.

Bill Welch


Re: Utah Coal Route steel gons in log service

Dick Harley
 

Todd mentioned earlier about possibly a yardmaster snagging a single UCR car, but all four of those cars look very similar to me.  And I'd say that three of them are clearly lettered Utah Coal Route.

Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: More WP West Coast Meat Reefer Data

John Barry
 

Garth,

Thank you for your informative post.   It has helped me identify additional potential traffic for my 1944 Richmond CA based layout.  From a pair of SP industry maps (1928 & 48), we can identify a Kingan house on the SF Belt that is a prime suspect for car float transfers from Richmond.  The 48 map has a second Kingan location served by the SP.

That's the good news.  The bad news (for me at least) is that the KGNX reporting mark does not show up in the 1945 and earlier ORERs, although it does show under General American in the 1953 edition KGNX 3500-3599 100 RSM cars.  The Rapido site claims the KGNX cars were built in 1940 and in a 1950's scheme.  Does anyone know how these were marked in 44-45?  GARX, URLX?  Kingan?  

And yes, NSD Oakland's cold storage warehouse is a trump card that makes probable almost any meat reefer that was running in 1944.  I mey even have to upgrade and weather that ancient Mantua Kahn's car that was one of the first kits that I built circa 1970.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 07:22:15 AM EDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good Friends,

After my response to RJ about west coast meat reefer traffic, I decided to parse WP Circular 167-E to see what else could be gleaned from that document about meat traffic. This is not like having real train consists, but does give some ideas about where the cars went and possibly how important, or unimportant, this traffic was. The circular lists all WP/SN/TS/CCT/OT/ABL customers as of 1957, as well as SP/ATSF/UP/Shortline customers in joint switching districts, or where cars would have been received or delivered to/from other roads for local delivery. As such, it doesn't tell us much about traffic on those other railroads, just the possibility of WP interchanging meat reefers there.

So on the WP itself we have 12 destinations for "PHP" (packing house products) or "meat". I wonder if the difference was that "meat" meant animal carcasses for further processing, while "PHP" was pre-packaged meat products, or possibly still unpackaged but processed products which would be wrapped for sale at the destination. In addition, there were 8 destinations for "groceries", meaning general grocery wholesalers, or distribution centers owned by large chains (like Safeway) which might have received meat products along with other food shipments. There was also 1 receiver of poultry products. All these customers had sidings with a total of 45 spots, which says something about how much traffic they received (most appear to be small re-distribution centers with just one or two spots--very model railroad-sized operations). I noted that generally the grocery wholesalers had more spots than the meat distribution centers.

On WP's subsidiary Sacramento Northern (SN) there were 2 grocery wholesalers with a total of 12 spots. The Tidewater Southern (TS) contributed 1 grocery house with 4 spots. There no customers who received only PHP or meat.

There were no PHP or grocery customers listed for WP's partial subsidiaries Oakland Terminal Railway (OT), Central California Traction Co. (CCT) or Alameda Belt Line (ABL).

In addition, some customers received their shipments at team tracks, which are not listed as specific to any road, and have no spot counts. 11 customers received PHP or meat via team tracks, with 7 more grocery wholesalers and 4 poultry wholesalers/processors. I presume by this time, the poultry was dressed, not live. I did not count the few customers who received eggs, nor did I count on-line slaughter houses, most of which were fairly small and likely would have received live animals for local consumption and probably did not ship meat anywhere else.

By contrast, the SP had 12 customers for PHP/meat traffic, 6 grocery wholesalers, and 3 poultry receivers, and had sidings totalling 80 spots. ATSF contributed 1 grocery wholesaler with just 1 spot. The UP had 1 grocery wholesaler with 2 spots. The situation isn't exactly clear in Salt Lake City, with the WP/D&RGW/UP sharing joint switching at a former arms plant converted to an industrial park that included several possible customers. I put all those under WP above. In addition, there were 10 grocery wholesalers on connecting shortlines or terminal switching operations with a total of 16 spots.

Now as to the customers themselves, I found 10 nationally known companies represented with their own distribution centers. Below, these list the railroad, products listed, and number of spots. I'm not sure what "AT" means. It pops up in several different cities in the railroad code space, but it not defined the book's abbreviations section. Likely it's short for "ATSF"; if so the book uses both abbreviations. Somebody mentioned military shipments, and I did not think to include these destinations, but  some bases would have received shipments, and the Oakland Army Base was a major supply depot for Pacific overseas installations.

Armour--Sacramento (SP-meat, 10); San Francisco (2 SP locations-PHP and meat at both, 2, 4)
Cudahy--Oakland (WP-PHP, 1); Salt Lake City (WP/D&RGW/UP-PHP, 9); San Francisco (State Belt RR-PHP, 2)
Dubuque--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 10)
Hahn--San Francisco (WP-meat, 1)
Hormel--San Francisco (WP-PHP and canned goods, 4)
Kingan--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 3)
Krey--San Francisco (not sure if this one is national; WP-PHP, 1)
Morrell--Oakland (WP-PHP, 3)
Rath--San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4)
Swift--Oakland (WP-PHP, 2); Reno (SP-PHP, 1); Sacramento (SP-meat, 2); San Francisco (SP-PHP, 4); Stockton (AT (ATSF?)-PHP, 10)

So obviously, there was west coast meat traffic. This sample mostly includes the WP, and SP's destinations in major central and northern California locations. It does not account for UP or ATSF routes to Southern California, the SP in Oregon, or any north-south through traffic, such as westbound cars received by the GN over the WP's NCE (the "Inside Gateway"). It certainly gives modelers of west coast railroads like the WP and SP justification for including meat reefers in their trains, including packer-owned/leased cars. You wouldn't have seen long trains of meat reefers (unlike PFE fruit blocks)RJ will be happy that the WP likely handled meat reefers from Cudahy, Hahn, Hormel, Krey, Morrell and Swift, though probably only one or two at a time.

One more item. Somebody mentioned livestock shipments on the UP into Southern California. This would have been the famous UP hog trains that served the Farmer John's pork plant in the South Los Angles area, probably the last regular large railroad livestock operation in the US. I don't know that Farmer John shipped finished products back out by rail; certainly not when I drove a delivery truck near the plant after college in the 1970s. Farmer John's building and parking lot walls were famous for the murals of cavorting porcine creatures in hog heaven. What you couldn't see from the streets was the the back side of the building's murals (facing the Los Angeles River) showing the pigs being unloaded and hearded to their doom. Sinister.

Hope you enjoy "chewing" on this.

Now back to scanning negatives.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Dave Parker
 

On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 02:44 PM, Bill Keene wrote:
This sounds like a good reason to pick up a number of undec cars, re-detail them along with painting and lettering. At least the starting point is good.
Except that it's really, really easy to over-represent the USRA cars if you are trying to build a prototypically accurate fleet.  In 1935 (my year of interest), only one in  ~16 B&M box cars was a USRA car.  It's the other 15 cars that pose the challenge.

I don't think  the percentages are much more favorable on any other road.  Remember, we are talking about 100,000 TOTAL cars (box, hopper, gon).

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Bill Keene
 

This sounds like a good reason to pick up a number of undec cars, re-detail them along with painting and lettering. At least the starting point is good.

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 12, 2020, at 2:30 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

I can only speak top the B&M's USRA DS cars. 

I have the builder's photo from 1919 -- no fascia.

I have a photo with a 1934 reweigh date and pretty fresh paint.  It has a fascia board.  Tempting to assume it has been re-roofed, but it's still Murphy.

I have two 1946-47 photos, both with the fascia boards, still with Murphy roofs. Both have the Minutemen herald (rolled out in the summer of 1946), AB brakes, and Ajax hand brakes.

In between the last two photos, ca. 1939-40, the reporting mark would have changed (from B&M to BM).

So, with the B&M cars, the very best that that a single RTR model could do would be to accurately represent maybe a decade (or less).  Unfortunately the Rapido model doesn't seem to represent any particular reality.  It lacks the fascia board, and has a stemwinder in conjunction with AB brakes.  The paint scheme is1946+, but the original 500 cars were down to 24 cars by 1950, and 4 by 1954.   So the Rapido car might be useful as a fleet builder, if one is not too fussy about prototypical accuracy, and if you model ca.1946-49.

This is why I don't too excited when new releases of RTR cars are announced.  YMMV of course.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: June 1941. "Railroad yards. Milwaukee, WI

John Barry
 

Also of note is the URTX meat reefer marked for Dubuque Packing Company.  What color is that, orange?  Very different from the adjacent Northern Refrigerator to the right or the Milwaukee branded car to the left.  And the dark lettering contrasts with the white seen on the tonally similar MILW boxes in the forground.   

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 02:03:13 PM EDT, John Larkin via groups.io <jflarkingrc@...> wrote:


That shot highlights 3 Milwaukee boxcars with 3 different paint schemes.  I'm not a Milwaukee expert by any means but the cars appear to be built to the same plan.  That's one of the best pix I've ever seen illustrating how paint schemes can vary on what appears to be identical cars.

John Larkin

On Sunday, April 12, 2020, 12:09:21 PM CDT, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:


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