Date   

Re: HO Scale Grab Irons

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

Given that the prototype RR-27 had simple grab irons, your best bet is to use wire grabs as has been suggested. If the C&BT kits do not include the attachment bolts, simply drill a hole just above the grab and add a nbw casting.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] HO Scale Grab Irons
 
Yes, I should have included that information.
I thought I would subject myself to some frustration by building a few C&BT Shops HO scale Santa Fe reefers.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Greg Martin

Bruce Smith
 

Armand,

The news from Facebook is that Greg is making slow progress in the right direction. As with many severe CoV patients, it seems like 2 steps forward, 1.9 steps back. I believe he is still intubated although that might change today. His body has taken a lot of abuse and his recovery will be long and slow.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Armand Premo <arm.p.prem@...>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 12:29 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Greg Martin
 
Any news regarding Greg ? Armand Premo


Tractor loads

O Fenton Wells
 

Well here are a few shots that I took in September of 1963.  I was stationed in Charleston SC and my wife was living in Conway in an apartment at her Grandmothers house.  I was home on weekend liberty and was taking photos of the local RR scene.  Hindsight being what it is can you believe these are the photos I got.  Where was my head? I didn't know then (age 20) that I'd be a prototype modeler someday).  So I missed the cool shots of the IC flat being unloaded at the depot.  My bad but here are a few of what I did get.
Fenton


Greg Martin

Armand Premo
 

Any news regarding Greg ? Armand Premo


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Patrick Wade
 

Also note the curved platform/dock construction. First time I have noticed a dock with the decking lumber running lengthwise. An interesting item to model.

Pat Wade
Santa Barbara, CA


On Apr 17, 2020, at 9:43 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Matt, 

Great photo. Thanks. Did everyone notice the position of the seats? Will you all be tearing apart your models to remount the seats per this photo?  😢

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:44 AM Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:
Here shot on the delivery end. Bloomington Il, Alton Depot. 8/7/1944 Illinois Digital Archives, Pantagraph Collection.


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Attachments:


Re: HO Scale Grab Irons

Bob Chaparro
 

Yes, I should have included that information.
I thought I would subject myself to some frustration by building a few C&BT Shops HO scale Santa Fe reefers.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Boxcar Interior Door Color

David
 

Here's a UP car with the marks and number stenciled high on the left side of the door opening:
https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=ns493

N&W car with the marks and number stenciled high on the right side:
https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=ns2888

N&W car with the marks and number on the (Superior) door:
https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=ns2912

David Thompson


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Don’t forget to look at the STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS in the background.  I don’t recall seeing an ALTON car very often.  First fully shown car to the left.  Any commentary about that car from the learned among us?

 

WRT the seats being tipped backwards . . . protecting the cushioned side from rain?  Not very effective if so but better than letting the depressed seats fill with water . . .

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 12:43 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Matt, 

 

Great photo. Thanks. Did everyone notice the position of the seats? Will you all be tearing apart your models to remount the seats per this photo?  😢

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:44 AM Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:

Here shot on the delivery end. Bloomington Il, Alton Depot. 8/7/1944 Illinois Digital Archives, Pantagraph Collection.


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Attachments:


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Matt, 

Great photo. Thanks. Did everyone notice the position of the seats? Will you all be tearing apart your models to remount the seats per this photo?  😢

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 11:44 AM Matt Smith <flyn96@...> wrote:
Here shot on the delivery end. Bloomington Il, Alton Depot. 8/7/1944 Illinois Digital Archives, Pantagraph Collection.


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL

Attachments:


Re: HO Scale Grab Irons

Bill Welch
 

Bob, it would be a heck of a lot easier to make suggestions if you told us what the models represent.

Bill Welch


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Matt Smith
 

Here shot on the delivery end. Bloomington Il, Alton Depot. 8/7/1944 Illinois Digital Archives, Pantagraph Collection.


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Mont Switzer
 

The narrow front axle arrangement were called “row crop” axles.  The wider axles were just wide axles according to the John Deere service rep in this area.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 11:19 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Hi Bus,

 

   I suspect the distance between the front wheels had a major effect on how tractors were loaded.

Are you refering to those with a tricycle wheel arrangement or wide front ends? In 1952 Phil Hastings

took a series of photos of the Boston & Mane's Claremont (NH) Branch local behind 2-6-0 #1490 from

Contoocook to the northwest side of Warner with the train having a flatcar load of Farmall tractors. 

They look like "M" series tractors to me but it's difficult to tell. They have narrow front ends and appear

to be loaded at a slight angle with three facing one direction and three the other. Needless to state, the

larger rear wheels are opposite the narrow front ends of those facing the other way on a 40 ft. flatcar.

How Deere John loaded their two cycle "Johnny Poppers" may have varied but at least John Deere

and the other company founded by a Vermont, J.I. Case, are still with us. A lot of other good makers

of tractor are long gone, David Brown, Oliver and Massey-Ferguson being the three I miss.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bus,

   I suspect the distance between the front wheels had a major effect on how tractors were loaded.
Are you refering to those with a tricycle wheel arrangement or wide front ends? In 1952 Phil Hastings
took a series of photos of the Boston & Mane's Claremont (NH) Branch local behind 2-6-0 #1490 from
Contoocook to the northwest side of Warner with the train having a flatcar load of Farmall tractors. 
They look like "M" series tractors to me but it's difficult to tell. They have narrow front ends and appear
to be loaded at a slight angle with three facing one direction and three the other. Needless to state, the
larger rear wheels are opposite the narrow front ends of those facing the other way on a 40 ft. flatcar.
How Deere John loaded their two cycle "Johnny Poppers" may have varied but at least John Deere
and the other company founded by a Vermont, J.I. Case, are still with us. A lot of other good makers
of tractor are long gone, David Brown, Oliver and Massey-Ferguson being the three I miss.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Boxcar Interior Door Color

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    I have worked around, in or for railroads for well over fifty years and have never seen a boxcar
in which the inside of the door was painted in any color other than that with which the exterior of 
the car was painted, almost always a shade of brown. As far as the wood lining is concerned
other than the inside of a milk car I've never seen a car in which the wood lining was painted at all.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Nelson Moyer
 

Somebody sent me these data sheets for loading tractors on flat cars, so I’ll pass them on. I think RPC had an article on open loads, but I don’t remember the volume number.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 9:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Bud,

 

I don’t think there was any specific pattern that was required for loading tractors or implements.  I suppose the various manufacturers may have developed diagrams to help their loaders get the maximum allowable load on the car and properly secure the equipment. 

 

1.       They had to be properly blocked and tied down per AAR regulations.

2.       Blocking could vary depending on how the implements were loaded.

3.       Implements could be no closer than 24 inches to brake wheel.

4.       No overhang, obviously.

 

Photos I’ve seen show the plants were set up for side or end loading so the tractors or implements could be rolled (or driven) into place on flat cars.  There appears to have been some overhead crane loading also, but cars had to be loaded so they could be unloaded at destination.  As most of us know, older farm tractors (like Farmall H and M or John Deere A and 560) could virtually turn on a dime when using both steering and separate wheel brakes.

 

A flat car with quite a few tractors or implements on it could be consigned to several dealer locations.  Each purchaser would find the correct serial number for his purchase and unload it (them).  Then the railroad would move the car onto the next consignee location.  I’m sure these routings were determined by the shipper’s traffic department ahead of time with efficiency and ability to unload in mind. 

 

Some tractor or implement dealers used the ramp provided by the railroads at their team track locations to get the tractor or implement  off of the flat cars.  If not too far, they were then driven or pulled to the dealership or new owner.  Others had long-bed straight trucks that they could just back up to the flat cars and roll the tractors and implements off and haul them to the dealership.  The dealerships that I have seen have ramps to loading/unloading these straight trucks.

 

One thing to consider.  Tractors and implements were not usually made in the same plants.  So a tractor plant would be shipping loads of tractors, an implement plant would be shipping loads of whatever implement(s) they were making.  If a farmer ordered a new tractor, a new plow and a new disc, they most likely would not arrive on the same flat car.

 

Hope this is of interest.  Mont

 

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 


Re: Boxcar Interior Door Color

Edward
 

The reporting mark and number of a box car was usually stenciled on the inside wall, about 6' up to the left of the door opening on both sides.
This was important in terminals where a car's road and number might not be readily visible on the outside.
Especially so, in places where box cars were lined up side by side with their doors open on both sides with ramps put across to the next car, so all could be loaded at the same time regardless of which track they were on.
 
It was important to have a car's ID plainly positioned so it could be identified by crews loading the cars based on the information and destination for the items being loaded.
Each car's waybill also carried information as to what had been loaded into it.
Important to know for accurate delivery, also settlement in the event of any damage or losses to loads along the way.
 
Ed Bommer  


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Mont Switzer
 

Bud,

 

I don’t think there was any specific pattern that was required for loading tractors or implements.  I suppose the various manufacturers may have developed diagrams to help their loaders get the maximum allowable load on the car and properly secure the equipment. 

 

1.       They had to be properly blocked and tied down per AAR regulations.

2.       Blocking could vary depending on how the implements were loaded.

3.       Implements could be no closer than 24 inches to brake wheel.

4.       No overhang, obviously.

 

Photos I’ve seen show the plants were set up for side or end loading so the tractors or implements could be rolled (or driven) into place on flat cars.  There appears to have been some overhead crane loading also, but cars had to be loaded so they could be unloaded at destination.  As most of us know, older farm tractors (like Farmall H and M or John Deere A and 560) could virtually turn on a dime when using both steering and separate wheel brakes.

 

A flat car with quite a few tractors or implements on it could be consigned to several dealer locations.  Each purchaser would find the correct serial number for his purchase and unload it (them).  Then the railroad would move the car onto the next consignee location.  I’m sure these routings were determined by the shipper’s traffic department ahead of time with efficiency and ability to unload in mind. 

 

Some tractor or implement dealers used the ramp provided by the railroads at their team track locations to get the tractor or implement  off of the flat cars.  If not too far, they were then driven or pulled to the dealership or new owner.  Others had long-bed straight trucks that they could just back up to the flat cars and roll the tractors and implements off and haul them to the dealership.  The dealerships that I have seen have ramps to loading/unloading these straight trucks.

 

One thing to consider.  Tractors and implements were not usually made in the same plants.  So a tractor plant would be shipping loads of tractors, an implement plant would be shipping loads of whatever implement(s) they were making.  If a farmer ordered a new tractor, a new plow and a new disc, they most likely would not arrive on the same flat car.

 

Hope this is of interest.  Mont

 

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Bud,

 

Tractors could be loaded longitudinally (length-wise), diagonally, or lattitudinally (cross-wise), depending on the size and type of the tractor.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bud Rindfleisch <BlackDiamondRR@...>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Gents,

     Just a question on load orientation of the tractors, I recall perhaps 30-years ago seeing a modeled flatcar load of tractors with them set on the deck at an angle and side by each. Just wondering if this was at all a common loading practice at one time? I'm doing a load of 6 Farmalls in S scale and the tractors seem to be a better fit if loaded this way. Have a second car of John Deeres as well. All of these tractors were nicely detailed except had plastic "blobs" for steering wheels, which I replaced with etched wheels from Tractor Fab.

     Bud Rindfleisch


Re: ADMIN - do not open website from "Richard Ramik"

Tim O'Connor
 


I get stuff like this regularly "from" many people on these lists - it's always
easy to recognize as spam. Lately I've been receiving stuff from Staffan Ehnbom.





On 4/16/2020 8:46 PM, Richard Ramik via groups.io wrote:
Jeff:

Thanks.  Had no idea this had happened.

Rich Ramik



On Thursday, April 16, 2020, 4:35:55 PM EDT, Aley, Jeff A <jeff.a.aley@...> wrote:


Hi Folks,

 

               RealSTMFC got an email from “Richard Ramik” asking “if anyone has done business at [spam website]???”

 

               It’s SPAM, please don’t click on the link.

 

               The real Richard Ramik has been a member of RealSTMFC for a long time; I doubt the message was really from him.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley

Deputy Moderator, RealSTMFC


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Bob Webber
 

Some examples - sorry for quality - these are just grabs...but give you some ideas.

At 08:13 AM 4/17/2020, you wrote:
Gents,
     Just a question on load orientation of the tractors, I recall perhaps 30-years ago seeing a modeled flatcar load of tractors with them set on the deck at an angle and side by each. Just wondering if this was at all a common loading practice at one time? I'm doing a load of 6 Farmalls in S scale and the tractors seem to be a better fit if loaded this way. Have a second car of John Deeres as well. All of these tractors were nicely detailed except had plastic "blobs" for steering wheels, which I replaced with etched wheels from Tractor Fab.
     Bud Rindfleisch

Bob Webber


Re: FARMALL TRACTOR loads

Douglas Harding
 

The group files has a pdf on an AAR diagram on tractor loading in 1949, shows proper blocking, etc. Orientation on the flat car depended upon the size of the tractor. The Farmall M (the lifelike model) was larger than the H, so was loaded differently. Shippers of course wanted to get as many as possible on each car.

https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/files/Tractor%20Loading%20on%20Flatcars%20AAR%201949.pdf

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 8:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Bud,

 

Tractors could be loaded longitudinally (length-wise), diagonally, or lattitudinally (cross-wise), depending on the size and type of the tractor.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bud Rindfleisch <BlackDiamondRR@...>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] FARMALL TRACTOR loads

 

Gents,

     Just a question on load orientation of the tractors, I recall perhaps 30-years ago seeing a modeled flatcar load of tractors with them set on the deck at an angle and side by each. Just wondering if this was at all a common loading practice at one time? I'm doing a load of 6 Farmalls in S scale and the tractors seem to be a better fit if loaded this way. Have a second car of John Deeres as well. All of these tractors were nicely detailed except had plastic "blobs" for steering wheels, which I replaced with etched wheels from Tractor Fab.

     Bud Rindfleisch

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