Date   

Re: Help with decals

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

No one has mentioned RUNNING colors. I have had dark colors of large decals (like
giant UNION PACIFIC letters) actually RUN while the decal is wet! Quick, grab the paper
towels and Q-Tips and soak it up!!

     What a GREAT technique for deteriorating lettering! Sounds terrific!

Tony Thompson




Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Simpson wrote:

I don't think I've seen an insulated tank like this USOX 17021. Tennessee Eastman Corp. Holston Ordanance Works nitric acid loading.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618638478/in/album-72157649155982802/

     Used in the 1920s for heavy acids like nitric and sulfuric, supposedly to let vapors sink out the bottom. Or something. That explanation always seemed lacking to me. But they were common at one time.

Tony Thompson




Re: Help with decals

Dave Parker
 

Chuck:

I agree that Solvaset seems to be a bit stronger than the Microscale products (and red is stronger than blue).  I haven't had it eat any decals, but then I don't use it very often.

I agree with Schuyler but actually find double edge razor blades (the ones for shaving) to be finer and sharper.  The SERBs that I have bought in bulk are, I think, more suited to paint scrapers and the like.  YMMV.

Best regards.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Help with decals

hubert mask
 

Stay away from solva set. It loves to eat most decal paper.  Micro set is not as harsh and gives you time to play with the decal until you get it set.

Hubert Mask


On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Already dullcoated . . .

*sigh*

Yes, it can be done, but it ain’t easy, and it can be a bit scary.  As I mentioned before I use a single edge razor blade, as it’s sharper than most anything else.  Pull the blade directly though the area that’s showing the blush, hard enough to get through both the dullcoat and into the decal.  Then flood the area with the decal setting solution, and see if it will bleed through your cut under the decal.  If so, that’s good, but it will take a longer time to dry  You’ll probably have to do this a fair number of times.

 

This also tends to result in a car that would benefit from some strategic weathering.  OTOH, you may find that once you’ve dealt with the blushing, you could overspray a light coat of the base color to “fade” the lettering some, and hopefully minimize the blushing. 

 

To respond to your query about which decal solution, I use both, favoring Solvaset for the “sticker” level of decal, and using the Micro Sol/Micro set system for more delicate decals.  Champ Decal Set was my favorite, though.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Chuck Cover
 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: ACY

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Schuyler,

    The AC&Y #3179 appears to be a type of Mather car I am not famiiar with but I agree, it's a car
with character and kind of neat. Think it was an older type attemted to look it up in my April 1948
ORER only to find the #1300 series ended at #3149. The July 1947 ORER yeilding the same result
prompted me to look back at the January 1938 ORER in which the series is not even listed! So I 
went the other way and checked a July 1959 ORER and dure enough, the sderies was there with 
50 cars in the #3150 -3199 series all having duplicate dimensional figure to the #1200 - 3149 group.
This strikes me as strange given that they appear to be an older style of build than the #1260 car 
from the previous group. Wjile the dimensions may al be the same, as the car itself may be from 
the floor down they certainly are different above the floor! Do we have a Mather expert who can
shed more liight on why the changes in construction were made and wi9ch group was actually 
constructed first?

Don Valentine


Re: ACY

william darnaby
 

This car was offered by Sunshine.  I have one running on the railroad…someplace.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACY

 


Can this ACY car be modeled? Yes. Without scratcbuilding? No.



On 4/21/2020 1:23 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

However, not all ACY cars got yellow paint . . .

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acy/acy3179ajw.jpg

 

What a  wonderfully modelable car!!

 

Schuyler

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rebuilt Double sheathed boxcars using Youngstown Steel wi

Eric Lombard
 

Hello, Don - and other interested folks,

Attached is a spreadsheet exported from my database. The criterion for selection to export was "inset side sill" and/or "with brackets". The count is 275 series including those RBLT and series RENO from those RBLT.. All side panel and door arrangements are included. (By the way, ACF also appears to have produced kits). 

I would consider this a "quick and dirty cut" that may include a few series that are not appropriate and may have missed a few that are. It is also likely that I have not have come across some and so are not yet in the database. Finally, I have not vetted the output to check on validity of inclusion.

If this becomes considered a good start, then I would be happy to focus on cleaning it up and adding/deleting data that all of you at home with nothing to do might provide. ;-) 

You can sort the spreadsheet any way that you like: As exported it is alpha by marks and then ascending by lowest serial number.. By double clicking on the SERVICE cell the full contents will drop down. I think that most of the cells will be interpretable to those who speak freight car. Happy to explain the inevitable cryptic abbreviations. I would recommend downloading the file and then opening it. I have found that Double clicking on the file in in the email may give you a funky result.

Enjoy or curse, depending

Eric L
Homewood, IL

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 10:22 AM Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello again folks,

    As most of us are aware, a nimber f roads rebuiilt doble sheathed boxcars especially
in the ten years from 1935 to 1945 using Youngstown Steel Kits of new steel sides that 
allowed the reuse of the complete underframe and trucks in addition to the ends and roof
if desired. Some of the new sides were ten panel and some were eight panel. I presume
that the number of panels per side was determined by the framing of the car to be rebuilt 
but amd not certain of this and am trying to determine if this is the correct reasoning. The
original idea behind such sides was the reconstruction of USRA double sheathed cars but 
again as most of us know there were a lot of 40 ft. double sheathed cars construced as late
as the early 1930's that appear to have been good candidates for such rebuilding. Thus I 
am tryng to determine what roads rebuilt any of their USRA doubjle sheathed cars and
what roads rebuilt similar cars. Whether or not the cars had a fishbelly underframe and
what type of end and roof the non=USRA cars had is also information being sought as is
the road number before and after the cars were rebuilt together with the year the original 
car was built and the years in which they were rebuilt.

    Some of this information is available for the USRA cars but is more difficut to find for
 non-USRA cars. I'm truing to create a chart with as much of this informatin included as 
can be found. Thanks for any assistance anyne can provide.

Don Valentine


Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Wasn’t that a wood kit, Don?  Northeastern?

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barriger Library AC&F Photos

 

    Actually Monsanto Chemical had a car of two like the Eastman car that operated out of their

plant in Revere. Mass., just north of Boston. Years ago someone made a foil wrapper for a kit 

of these cars. I suspect foil becase the cars were painted silver with black lettering. The tank 

cover was virtually the same but the dome was a bit different.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Actually Monsanto Chemical had a car of two like the Eastman car that operated out of their
plant in Revere. Mass., just north of Boston. Years ago someone made a foil wrapper for a kit 
of these cars. I suspect foil becase the cars were painted silver with black lettering. The tank 
cover was virtually the same but the dome was a bit different.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Help with decals

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Overspray, in my experience, seldom conceals the blushing.  Fix that first with the poking and slicing with the sharp edge.  I use a single edge razor blade.  Sharper than any exacto knife.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of hubert mask
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 

Float the decal with micro set and draw the fluid out with a paper towel on the edge.  If you poke the decal with a knife it will show up when it drys.  Consider the type of paint.  It works better on gloss paints then tone it down with over spray will hide the film hopefully.    Main things is patients

 

 

Hubert Mask


On Apr 21, 2020, at 3:31 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Looks like Pierre has the right answer.

Fenton

 

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:16 PM Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

What paint did you use? And how long did you let it dry?
If it's Scalecoat you need to let it fully cure for 3-4 days.
It looks like lots of blushing, brush MicroSol(red bottle) and poke at all the blushing with a sharp pin or knife tip. You want setting solution in behind the entire decal.
It takes persistence

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-21 3:10 p.m., Chuck Cover wrote:

Group,

I have problems with the decals on some of my freight car builds.  I have attached a photo of one of my models and in places you can see the decal film between the lettering where it ideally should be invisible.  On some models this does not occur, on others, as this D&H boxcar, there is some sheen visible.  Are there specific steps that can be taken to prevent this?  If this occurs after decal application, are there ways to make it disappear?  Thanks in advance.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Help with decals

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tim’s additions to Pierre’s basic recommendations are what I do as well.  IMHO it’s essential to float the decal in a puddle on the car side, and get it to settle down to the surface by wicking the water out at the edges.  I usually use a brushfull of the setting solution in that puddle, but that’s only an addition to the distilled water to begin with.

 

Getting the decal OFF the backing paper, floating in the dish, is good, as most decals have some unnecessary adhesive on the back side.  That adhesive isn’t really necessary, since we’re going to overcoat everything later anyway.  But be careful when picking up the floating decal – it can wrap around the tweezers/brush/toothpick and it can be a real bear to get it straightened out again.  Put it back in the water and poke it until it unfurls.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 3:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 


Yep - what Pierre said!

And ALSO -

use fresh distilled water - tepid warm water seems to work better

make sure the decal slides off the paper or is even floating in the water
  before you pick it up with tweezers - don't drag it off the paper

make sure the car side is clean and free of ALL particles - and of course
  a glossy smooth finish is best (easiest)

wet the car side before applying the decal and use your solution generously
  and (capillary action) siphon off excess slowly with a Q tip or piece of paper towel
  while making fine adjustments to the location

let it mostly dry and adhere, and wet it again - at this stage I like to use
a strong setting solution. I may do this several times with a stubborn decal or
trying to conform to a rivet or rib






On 4/21/2020 3:16 PM, Pierre Oliver wrote:

What paint did you use? And how long did you let it dry?
If it's Scalecoat you need to let it fully cure for 3-4 days.
It looks like lots of blushing, brush MicroSol(red bottle) and poke at all the blushing with a sharp pin or knife tip. You want setting solution in behind the entire decal.
It takes persistence

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-21 3:10 p.m., Chuck Cover wrote:

Group,

I have problems with the decals on some of my freight car builds.  I have attached a photo of one of my models and in places you can see the decal film between the lettering where it ideally should be invisible.  On some models this does not occur, on others, as this D&H boxcar, there is some sheen visible.  Are there specific steps that can be taken to prevent this?  If this occurs after decal application, are there ways to make it disappear?  Thanks in advance.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Help with decals

Tim O'Connor
 

Todd

I find that I can pick up tiny decals with a fine, wet paintbrush, and transfer
them to the car with that - they slide smoothy off the wet brush

With older decals, and TINY bits, I often pre-treat them with Microscale liquid decal film.
I've not had problems making the film 'disappear'

No one has mentioned
RUNNING colors. I have had dark colors of large decals (like
giant UNION PACIFIC letters) actually RUN while the decal is wet! Quick, grab the paper
towels and Q-Tips and soak it up!!

So be prepared ! :-D




On 4/21/2020 3:51 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Tim's advice is good - thanks, Tim for adding more details and tips.

I keep finding that, with today's ever-thinner decals, I cannot reliably slide the decal off in the water and pick it up with tweezers and lay it on the model.  The darned decals always curl under, and no amount of prodding gets them to 'unfold'.  So, I pick up the decal and its backing paper and put them in a small pool of water on the car side, then gently prod and pull the decal off the backing.  Of course, this lets in demon backing paper 'dust' which I can rarely spot until the decal has dried.  I've tried flowing more water over the car surface to wash away such detritus before adding setting fluid, which helps.  Guess I need to try harder.

Todd Sullivan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ACY

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

  I agree Schuyler, and look at the neat ptches on the door in which a sheet of what was
probably galvanized sheet metal was nailed over the deteriorated wood. Talk about a 
rudimentary repair job!!

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Help with decals

hubert mask
 

Float the decal with micro set and draw the fluid out with a paper towel on the edge.  If you poke the decal with a knife it will show up when it drys.  Consider the type of paint.  It works better on gloss paints then tone it down with over spray will hide the film hopefully.    Main things is patients


Hubert Mask


On Apr 21, 2020, at 3:31 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Looks like Pierre has the right answer.
Fenton

On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 3:16 PM Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

What paint did you use? And how long did you let it dry?
If it's Scalecoat you need to let it fully cure for 3-4 days.
It looks like lots of blushing, brush MicroSol(red bottle) and poke at all the blushing with a sharp pin or knife tip. You want setting solution in behind the entire decal.
It takes persistence

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-04-21 3:10 p.m., Chuck Cover wrote:
Group,

I have problems with the decals on some of my freight car builds.  I have attached a photo of one of my models and in places you can see the decal film between the lettering where it ideally should be invisible.  On some models this does not occur, on others, as this D&H boxcar, there is some sheen visible.  Are there specific steps that can be taken to prevent this?  If this occurs after decal application, are there ways to make it disappear?  Thanks in advance.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Help with decals

Todd Sullivan
 

Tim's advice is good - thanks, Tim for adding more details and tips.

I keep finding that, with today's ever-thinner decals, I cannot reliably slide the decal off in the water and pick it up with tweezers and lay it on the model.  The darned decals always curl under, and no amount of prodding gets them to 'unfold'.  So, I pick up the decal and its backing paper and put them in a small pool of water on the car side, then gently prod and pull the decal off the backing.  Of course, this lets in demon backing paper 'dust' which I can rarely spot until the decal has dried.  I've tried flowing more water over the car surface to wash away such detritus before adding setting fluid, which helps.  Guess I need to try harder.

Todd Sullivan


Re: ACY

Tim O'Connor
 


Clark

Ex-D&RGW series 61200 to 61499



On 4/21/2020 3:46 PM, Clark Propst wrote:
Here's a Soph Marty photo of another ACY car with some character ;  ))

The steel yellow cars came with red or black lettering had to do with ownership I believe?
CW Propst

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Yellow freight cars (was RE: Photo: CIM Boxcar 8183)

Tim O'Connor
 


That USRE rehab box car is an ex-New Haven PS-1 built in 1947 with 7 foot doors


On 4/21/2020 1:18 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

For example:

 

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acy/acy3217d19.jpg

 

I know many of you are aware of the Fallen Flags site. But it seems not to be referred to very often.  Or supported?  It’s a labor of love and depends on donations for support.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 1:13 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Yellow freight cars (was RE: Photo: CIM Boxcar 8183)

 

ACY had yellow cars post 1960. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:56 PM, Aley, Jeff A <jeff.a.aley@...> wrote:



Re: Yellow freight cars – clearly Don meant boxcars; otherwise I’d submit UP’s stock cars, which were yellow.

 

Did the AC&Y have yellow box cars?  I have a Bev-Bel-decorated Athearn box car that I got when I was a kid.  I have no idea how unprototypical it is.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 4:56 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CIM Boxcar 8183

 

   But I think Dave may be correct as well,Bill.I seem to remember a Mainline Models kit for the C&IM car 

only it was a model of a 40 ft. car and not very acceptable as an accurate Mather car. But you are correct,

of course, in that they were yellow and they had a diamond herald on their doors. The C&IM cars are the 

only freight cars I can recall that were yellow except the MKT and TH&B cars.

 

My best, Don Valentine



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ACY

Clark Propst
 

Here's a Soph Marty photo of another ACY car with some character ;  ))

The steel yellow cars came with red or black lettering had to do with ownership I believe?
CW Propst

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