Date   

Re: Walthers 40' gon

Steven D Johnson
 

Hugh,

 

According to the Walthers item number you provided, the kit you have is this one:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walthers-933-6859-Undecorated-40-039-Gondola-Kit-/233539963738?hash=item3660110b5a%3Ag%3ACNQAAOSwTYFefRcq&nma=true&si=00KqBGaBxMinvCDUfvPmhMPgVTI%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

It’s a model of a USRA WW I-era composite drop-bottom gondola with numerous prototypes. InterMountain produces a better-detailed model in HO. 

 

I’ll let the other guys chime in with more, but also found these on-line:

 

https://mrr.trains.com/-/media/import/files/pdf/7/5/f/transition-era_gondolas.pdf

 

and

 

 

 U.S.R.A. Composite Gondola
Prototype Modeler, August 1979 page 39
( GONDOLA, "HENDRICKSON, RICHARD", USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE, PMM )

USRA Composite Gondola: 50-ton drop-bottom car
Mainline Modeler, July/August 1981 page 18
Article also published in The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 , page 23
( C&O, CB&Q, DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", L&N, "LANE, JAMES E.", MP, NYC,
SR, USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE, MM )

USRA Composite Gondola: Construction in HO scale
Mainline Modeler, September/October 1981 page 20
Article also published in The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 , page 30
( DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", SCRATCHBUILD, USRA, CONSTRUCTION, FREIGHTCAR,
PROTOTYPE, HO, MM )

USRA Composite Gondola: 50-ton drop-bottom car
The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 page 23
Article also published in Mainline Modeler, July/August 1981, page 18
( C&O, CB&Q, DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", L&N, "LANE, JAMES E.", MP, NYC,
SR, USRA, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE )

USRA Composite Gondola: Construction in HO scale
The Best of Mainline Modeler's Freight Cars Volume 3 page 30
Article also published in Mainline Modeler, September/October 1981, page 20
( DRAWING, GONDOLA, "HUNDMAN, ROBERT L.", SCRATCHBUILD, USRA, CONSTRUCTION,
FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE )

 

 

Steve Johnson

Nashville, TN 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Hugh Guillaume via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 10:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Walthers 40' gon

 

Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.


GCSX Flat Car [was Barriger Library AC&F Photos]

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

I just spotted this flat car among the Barriger Library AC&F photos: GCSX 106. It has 11 stake pockets, like the Athearn 40' flat car. It has long been a truism that Rutland 2700-2799 were the only match for this classic model. In his August 1993 RMJ article on these cars, Richard Hendrickson cautiously said " . . . one of the few prototypes . . . ", though he makes it clear in his text this was the only match he had found at that point. Obviously, here is another: https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618640708/in/album-72157649155982802/ .

The above photo is captioned " Granite City Flat Car". This probably stand for GCSX stands for "Granite City Steel"? I find no listing for GCSX in my 1958 ORER. The Fallen Flags web site has three photos of locomotives from Granite City Steel, but no further information.

So can anyone comment on whether these cars were for in-plant use, or might they have been seen in freight trains as private owner cars?

Thoughts to ponder.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


Re: Walthers 40' gon

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

There was considerable variation in "Hart Convertible gondolas" as they were also called. A big selling point was that they could be used in revenue service as well as non-revenue service, which is why so many were listed in the ORER freight car rosters. In time most were relegated to maintenance of way. Some had side doors and removable ends so that they could be used with the Lidgerwood Rapid unloader. Many also had floors that could peaked in the middle to make them self-emptying. 

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 21, 2020 11:49 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Walthers 40' gon


Rodger-Hart gondolas were center dump cars mostly used for sand and
stone and railroads
bought them for maintenance of way. But I think there was more than one
style, so you'd
have to research your prototype.




On 4/21/2020 11:40 PM, Hugh Guillaume via groups.io wrote:
> Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did
> a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the
> unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into
> something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try
> tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.


--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*




Re: Walthers 40' gon

Tim O'Connor
 

Rodger-Hart gondolas were center dump cars mostly used for sand and stone and railroads
bought them for maintenance of way. But I think there was more than one style, so you'd
have to research your prototype.

On 4/21/2020 11:40 PM, Hugh Guillaume via groups.io wrote:
Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Walthers 40' gon

 

Is there an actual prototype for Walthers 933-6859 40' gondola?  I did a search in the group files but did not find anything.  I have the unbuilt kit.  Not sure I really need it unless it can be built into something correct.  It is an undecorated kit.  Not sure I want to try tracking down decals for a model that does not represent a real prototype.


another yellow boxcar

 

Sunshine 7.7 is the Wichita Northwestern Mather boxcar.  It is a yellow boxcar.  I built it a long time ago, mainly because when I lived in Wichita I drove along parts of its route.  I use it on my model railroad.  Sunshine also offered a PS&N Mather boxcar - built that too and the C&IM Mather boxcar.


Re: Help with decals

Curt Fortenberry
 


I use Solvaset diluted 50:50 with distilled water.  Only full strength for those specific problem spots.  Even Tamiya thinner X-20a is for a stubborn spot.  

Curt Fortenberry 


Re: No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

My home group had the same problem and the administration put out a request for $10 donations to increase the storage for one year.  They wound up with enough to do two extra and nearly three extra years.

George Courtney


Re: No visible attachements

Dave Parker
 

I belong to 6 groups.io groups.  The other 5 all have an Emailed Photos folder, while this one does not (anymore).

My understanding is that it's a storage quota issue.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Help with decals

Nelson Moyer
 

I use Tru Color for most freight cars, and decal setting solutions can soften the paint with repeated applications, so I always airbrush Model Master Clear Gloss on the areas to be decaled, to produce a smooth glossy surface. I have Future, but I’ve never used it, as we tend to go with what we’re familiar with .

 

Tim pretty much reported the method I use, except I never let a decal float off of the backing paper in water. This is especially important for the new thin decals from Speedwitch, which are prone to curling and require delicate handling. I pour distilled water into a black plastic coffee container lid and let the decal soak just long enough to slide when gently touched with my fine tip blunt nose forceps, then I remove the decal while still on the backing paper and place it on a small piece of paper towel to blot of most of the water. For the thin decals, I place a drop of distilled water on the car where I intend to place the decal (it will bead on a gloss surface), place the decal and backing paper next to the drop of water, and gently slide the decal onto the car surface. Do not use a setting solution for this step with Speedwitch decals per Speedwitch instructions. Next I use a small piece of paper towel to blot off most of the water and place the decal. Then I apply a small amount of Micro Set over the decal and let it wick under the film as I make any additional adjustments to get the decal exactly where I want it. At that point, I don’t touch it again until it visibly dry. Next I wet a brush with Micro Set and gently blot the decal to rewet it, being careful not to exert pressure on the film. I touch any bubbles under the film with  the tip of the brush to push them to the edges of the film, then I let the film dry again enough to see any areas that didn’t settle over rivets or other details or into wood grooves. If settling is necessary, I switch to Micro Sol and repeat the blot technique, allowing the liquid to dry undisturbed. After the Micro Sol  is visibly dry, I inspect the decals for tiny bubbles  or areas that didn’t settle over details under a x7 Optivisor. Usually, that’s enough setting treatment. With thin decals, never try to adjust the position of a wet decal after the first Micro Sol treatment. If you find silvering or bubbles the next day after the decals are thoroughly dry, prick them with a #11 X-acto blade or a sharp fine needle and apply Micro Sol. This works after you’ve sealed the decals with Dullcote if the silvered areas aren’t too large.

 

For all other decals besides Speedwitch, I slide the decal off of the backing paper onto a drop of Micro Set on the car, wick off the excess, then place the decal quickly and let it dry. The rest of the process is as described above.

 

The only tools I use are an X-acto knife handle with a #11 blade to rough cut decals from the sheet, a single edge razor blade to close trim the decals, Dumont fine nose forceps with the tips slightly rounded off, a sharp needle mounted into the end of a ¼ in dowel ( I used my biology dissecting needle until it was no longer sharp), and #2 and 3/0 paint brushes. Supplies include distilled water, paper towels, Micro Set and Micro Sol. I have Solvaset, but I’ve only used it once for some very thick decals that Micro Sol wouldn’t settle completely.

 

The goal is to make the decal lettering look like it was painted on the car. That’s easier with thin films than thicker films, but it can be done.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 


Yep - what Pierre said!

And ALSO -

use fresh distilled water - tepid warm water seems to work better

make sure the decal slides off the paper or is even floating in the water
  before you pick it up with tweezers - don't drag it off the paper

make sure the car side is clean and free of ALL particles - and of course
  a glossy smooth finish is best (easiest)

wet the car side before applying the decal and use your solution generously
  and (capillary action) siphon off excess slowly with a Q tip or piece of paper towel
  while making fine adjustments to the location

let it mostly dry and adhere, and wet it again - at this stage I like to use
a strong setting solution. I may do this several times with a stubborn decal or
trying to conform to a rivet or rib






On 4/21/2020 3:16 PM, Pierre Oliver wrote:

What paint did you use? And how long did you let it dry?
If it's Scalecoat you need to let it fully cure for 3-4 days.
It looks like lots of blushing, brush MicroSol(red bottle) and poke at all the blushing with a sharp pin or knife tip. You want setting solution in behind the entire decal.
It takes persistence

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 2020-04-21 3:10 p.m., Chuck Cover wrote:

Group,

I have problems with the decals on some of my freight car builds.  I have attached a photo of one of my models and in places you can see the decal film between the lettering where it ideally should be invisible.  On some models this does not occur, on others, as this D&H boxcar, there is some sheen visible.  Are there specific steps that can be taken to prevent this?  If this occurs after decal application, are there ways to make it disappear?  Thanks in advance.

Chuck Cover
Santa Fe, NM

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

Thanks for the info, Tom.  I tried the quoted text tonight on the decal problem and must have missed it somehow.
I found the same on going to the Photos album.  Great site and full of good info.  This is was a request for help and in no way a complaint.

George Courtney


Re: No visible attachements

Tom Madden
 

Yep. Same here. But if there's a followup post and you click on "Show quoted text", the quoted text will include a link to the photo. (See Tim O's followup to Clark's post with the Sophocles Marty attachment.) Also there's no longer a separate folder in the <Photos> area for emailed/attached photos. At least there's not one in the first Album position where it used to be.

Tom Madden


No visible attachements

George Courtney
 

I come to this list directly and not through my e-mail.  I've noticed lately that no attached photos show up.  Even if the message is tagged as having an attachment.  Is anyone else having that problem or am I one of few who come directly, i.e. no e-mail to the site?

Thanks,
George Courtney


Re: Help with decals

Mark Vinski
 

When decals float off of their backing paper in water I use a wide tool such as a large Xacto blade, wide paint brush, or a styrene strip to retrieve them. The film does not curl around a wide tool as easily as it does around a narrow one.

I've had decal ink run occasionally but it did not produce any kind of realistic effect. It looked more like a puddle of ink.

Mark Vinski


Re: Help with decals

Tony Thompson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

No one has mentioned RUNNING colors. I have had dark colors of large decals (like
giant UNION PACIFIC letters) actually RUN while the decal is wet! Quick, grab the paper
towels and Q-Tips and soak it up!!

     What a GREAT technique for deteriorating lettering! Sounds terrific!

Tony Thompson




Re: Barriger Library AC&F Photos

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Simpson wrote:

I don't think I've seen an insulated tank like this USOX 17021. Tennessee Eastman Corp. Holston Ordanance Works nitric acid loading.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/49618638478/in/album-72157649155982802/

     Used in the 1920s for heavy acids like nitric and sulfuric, supposedly to let vapors sink out the bottom. Or something. That explanation always seemed lacking to me. But they were common at one time.

Tony Thompson




Re: Help with decals

Dave Parker
 

Chuck:

I agree that Solvaset seems to be a bit stronger than the Microscale products (and red is stronger than blue).  I haven't had it eat any decals, but then I don't use it very often.

I agree with Schuyler but actually find double edge razor blades (the ones for shaving) to be finer and sharper.  The SERBs that I have bought in bulk are, I think, more suited to paint scrapers and the like.  YMMV.

Best regards.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Help with decals

hubert mask
 

Stay away from solva set. It loves to eat most decal paper.  Micro set is not as harsh and gives you time to play with the decal until you get it set.

Hubert Mask


On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Chuck Cover <chuck.cover@...> wrote:

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Already dullcoated . . .

*sigh*

Yes, it can be done, but it ain’t easy, and it can be a bit scary.  As I mentioned before I use a single edge razor blade, as it’s sharper than most anything else.  Pull the blade directly though the area that’s showing the blush, hard enough to get through both the dullcoat and into the decal.  Then flood the area with the decal setting solution, and see if it will bleed through your cut under the decal.  If so, that’s good, but it will take a longer time to dry  You’ll probably have to do this a fair number of times.

 

This also tends to result in a car that would benefit from some strategic weathering.  OTOH, you may find that once you’ve dealt with the blushing, you could overspray a light coat of the base color to “fade” the lettering some, and hopefully minimize the blushing. 

 

To respond to your query about which decal solution, I use both, favoring Solvaset for the “sticker” level of decal, and using the Micro Sol/Micro set system for more delicate decals.  Champ Decal Set was my favorite, though.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chuck Cover
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 6:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with decals

 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Help with decals

Chuck Cover
 

Thank you to everyone who has responded to my questions.  I have a couple of steps that I can now try to get rid of some of that silvering.  The car pictured was painted with Scalecoat and I did not let it dry for the time suggested but it did dry in the Santa Fe sun for at least a day.  I will not rush it in the future.

 

A couple of other questions have come to mind.  Which decal setting solution is favored, Walthers Solvaset or Microscale Micro Sol?  On cars that I have already put Dullcoat over the decals, is there a way to get back to the decals and work to get rid the silvering?

 

Again thank you for your input.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM

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