Date   

Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Ben.

this may help


On 4/29/2020 5:39 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?"

Richard Hendrickson's article on page 16 of the November 2001 issue of Railmodel Journal identified three series of LNE ARA steel boxcars.
http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_2001_11/  

LNE 8001-8200, 200 cars, PSC, October 1927
LNE 8201-8500, 300 cars, Magor, January 1931
Both these series had the ARA side pattern, flat ends, and roof, and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing.  Photos in the article confirms this.
 
The third series, LNE 8501-8750, 250 cars, Magor, December 1934, had 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.  There wasn't a photo with the article, so I can't confirm if these cars were built to the 1928 PRR Class X29 sheathing pattern (or, for that matter, the 5 ft kingpin-to-striker spacing) that the PRR Dreadnaught end cars had.

My previous point still stands - the story of these cars is more complex than previously implied. 


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?"

Richard Hendrickson's article on page 16 of the November 2001 issue of Railmodel Journal identified three series of LNE ARA steel boxcars.
http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_2001_11/  

LNE 8001-8200, 200 cars, PSC, October 1927
LNE 8201-8500, 300 cars, Magor, January 1931
Both these series had the ARA side pattern, flat ends, and roof, and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing.  Photos in the article confirms this.
 
The third series, LNE 8501-8750, 250 cars, Magor, December 1934, had 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.  There wasn't a photo with the article, so I can't confirm if these cars were built to the 1928 PRR Class X29 sheathing pattern (or, for that matter, the 5 ft kingpin-to-striker spacing) that the PRR Dreadnaught end cars had.

My previous point still stands - the story of these cars is more complex than previously implied. 


Ben Hom 


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

I think your best bet would be 50 foot NPMX decals Hubert - people can use the
Athearn (PFE) reefer, or the old Pacific HO (later Silver Streak) FGE reefer, or
scratchbuild. Early mechanical reefers are a very tough sell because they were
built in small orders and are almost all different from each other.

Tim O'

On 4/29/2020 5:24 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
I would be interested in decals.  However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition.  I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series,  had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm. There were only 25 of these 40 footers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


No 40 foot mechanical reefers in HO scale in plastic, resin or brass.


On 4/29/2020 4:59 PM, hubert mask wrote:
Would anyone be interested in a decal for this car and is there a car to fit?

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:42 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:
 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

leakinmywaders
 

I would be interested in decals.  However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition.  I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series,  had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm.  There were only 25 of these 40 footers.   

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT 


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Would anyone be interested in a decal for this car and is there a car to fit?

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:42 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
<npmx_504 40ft_reefer PCF-1958 builder 10-1958.jpg>


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Ben I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later
also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2020 12:22 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Fenton Wells asked:
"LNE X-29 boxcars, 8000 series, Anyone have info on these cars?  I think they were the 8000 series."

As always, the Devil is in the details and the previous quick answers in this thread miss several important points:

- These cars aren't "X-29s", but exhibited the ARA car side rivet pattern and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing, so repainting a PRR Class X29 model doesn't exactly answer the mail.  RC-7003 (AAR Body w/Steel Plate Ends) is the kit you want - NOT any of the PRR Class X29 variations.

- The cars also received replacement roofs over their service lives.  Ted Culotta offered both kits and conversion parts to model these modified cars.
http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/p109-lehigh-new-england-rebuilt-ara-box-car-parts-set/  

John Sykes III replied:
"Originally the LNE cars were painted a red very similar to PRR freight car color of the early 1940’s.  However, this weathered rapidly and was not helped by the fact that 95%+ of their loadings was Portland cement, in kegs before WWII and following the war, the 1 cubic foot, 94 lb bags still used today.  Portland is very caustic and did a number on the paint. The few remaining X29 clones were repainted in the black scheme starting in 1956, I believe."

Here's an early 1960s Tom Nemeth photo illustrating this.


Ben Hom 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:
 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: OT: What Groups are people following on Groups.io

Todd Sullivan
 

For the  Pacific Northwest:

NPModelers
NPTelltale
SPSRY

Todd Sullivan


Re: OT: What Groups are people following on Groups.io

Bruce Smith
 

All related to freight cars:

PRR
PRRpro (projects)
ResinFreightCarBuilders
Shake-N Take

regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] OT: What Groups are people following on Groups.io
 

[Edited Message Follows]

A little off topic, but what Groups are people following on Groups.io, I am wondering if there are some good ones I am missing.

My list is:

RealSTMFC
MFCL
PassengerCarList
Ry-ops-industrialSIG
bbfcl
RailwayBullShipperGroup
MILW
MILWmodelers
CBQ
GNGoat
RockIslandLines
OreRail
wisrail
SooLineHistory
MSTL
cnw
TwinPortsRail

-Hudson


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Nice photo.

Mask Island Decals Inc.
Hubert Mask 


On Apr 29, 2020, at 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...> wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer
<1-0130-002-7 NPMX 504.jpg>


NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Hudson Leighton
 

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer


OT: What Groups are people following on Groups.io

Hudson Leighton
 
Edited

A little off topic, but what Groups are people following on Groups.io, I am wondering if there are some good ones I am missing.

My list is:

RealSTMFC
MFCL
PassengerCarList
Ry-ops-industrialSIG
bbfcl
RailwayBullShipperGroup
MILW
MILWmodelers
CBQ
GNGoat
RockIslandLines
OreRail
wisrail
SooLineHistory
MSTL
cnw
TwinPortsRail

-Hudson


Re: Photo: MP Boxcar 85825

Eric Hansmann
 

Paper door seals are applied to minimize dirt entering the car so the fine furniture is clean upon arrival.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 1:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: MP Boxcar 85825

 

Photo: MP Boxcar 85825

A 1929 photo from the University of Louisville Libraries:

https://digital.library.louisville.edu/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/cs/id/8176/rv/singleitem/rec/3

Description: "Missouri Pacific boxcar number 85825 sits near a large building with a partially visible painted sign for Belknap Hardware & Manufacturing Company. The boxcar has a sign attached that reads, "This Huge Carload/Fine Furniture For/Groves and Halterman/The Big Store Petersburg W.VA." "

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: MP Boxcar 85825

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: MP Boxcar 85825

A 1929 photo from the University of Louisville Libraries:

https://digital.library.louisville.edu/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/cs/id/8176/rv/singleitem/rec/3

Description: "Missouri Pacific boxcar number 85825 sits near a large building with a partially visible painted sign for Belknap Hardware & Manufacturing Company. The boxcar has a sign attached that reads, "This Huge Carload/Fine Furniture For/Groves and Halterman/The Big Store Petersburg W.VA." "

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells asked:
"LNE X-29 boxcars, 8000 series, Anyone have info on these cars?  I think they were the 8000 series."

As always, the Devil is in the details and the previous quick answers in this thread miss several important points:

- These cars aren't "X-29s", but exhibited the ARA car side rivet pattern and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing, so repainting a PRR Class X29 model doesn't exactly answer the mail.  RC-7003 (AAR Body w/Steel Plate Ends) is the kit you want - NOT any of the PRR Class X29 variations.

- The cars also received replacement roofs over their service lives.  Ted Culotta offered both kits and conversion parts to model these modified cars.
http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/p109-lehigh-new-england-rebuilt-ara-box-car-parts-set/  

John Sykes III replied:
"Originally the LNE cars were painted a red very similar to PRR freight car color of the early 1940’s.  However, this weathered rapidly and was not helped by the fact that 95%+ of their loadings was Portland cement, in kegs before WWII and following the war, the 1 cubic foot, 94 lb bags still used today.  Portland is very caustic and did a number on the paint. The few remaining X29 clones were repainted in the black scheme starting in 1956, I believe."

Here's an early 1960s Tom Nemeth photo illustrating this.


Ben Hom 
  


Re: Number Change On Kadee Cars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Ike,

Life is full of similar, but just slightly different pursuits. Museums, historians, diorama builders, model builders, and railroad modelers overlap 90-99% and so we focus on the 1-10% differences instead of the commonalities because otherwise we'd just say "yup" and move on.  It's the differences that catch our eye and need explanation.

Thanks for pointing out the history.  That's good to know.  I was also wondering about the black ends, thinking that was not usual Southern practice but trusted Kadee to get it right.  Now we know why they only had one car number.  The Southern has so many (*%&(%^&%()^ unique and "custom" features that it is just a royal pain to model.

The number change was enough for me, since this was out of my era of interest (1934) and I was trying support industry by buying something in Southern from a manufacturer who does quality work.  I got two, because I will run it on the FCSME modular club layout and I hate to have a single car "there goes the Southern boxcar" effect.   I like to have something that is not unique so it better reflects the usual (hundreds if not thousands of similar cars), but having two of the exact same number is going a bit too far in that direction.   Unless, I knew that car was always going to the same industry (in virtual or real captive service), then I wouldn't want a car that is "single instance" on my layout.  It may be historically accurate and interesting, but then it goes on a display shelf or a museum, otherwise it defeats the railroad modeling aspect.  I tend to buy my cars in clusters of 2-15 so I capture the feel of railroading in my necessarily selectively compressed railroad and trains.  It's like each car is a pixel in a photograph.  When that ONE pixel is orange in a field of maroon (go Hokies!), it may be accurate, but it sure distracts.  That is not a complaint about Kadee or about those wanting each car to be a museum quality or high fidelity representation.  It is just my observation and explanation of my hobby choices.

IF this was a '34 era car, I might have spent more time worrying about whether the new number was appropriate, but the 'focus on the fifties' as a 'transition era'  is another issue for another time.

Good discussion!

Dave

Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 9:38:42 AM, you wrote:

> Just changing the number on the Kadee Southern boxcars may not be enough!

> I’ll skip the details but when I purchased and received one of the cars, I questioned the black
> ends. That led to a spirited series of emails with Kadee and who I consider to be the “most knowledgable” P-S freight car person.

> The conclusion, I believe we all agreed to with the “evidence” available, was that the black
> paint on the Southern car was NOT specified by the SR. The SR cars were part of a lot of 500
> produced by P-S that went to a number of railroads to introduce them to the new car based on P-S
> components. The P-S specification describes the black ends but the Southern spec for 40’ P-S box cars does not.

> As the group of SR cars was very small, specific documentation is hard to find but without saying
> “never”, I think the odds are very high that ONLY the car produced by Kadee had black ends.
> Multiple photos in the SRHA files of other cars in the group show only FCR ends. While I realize
> paint could fade before the photos were taken as many as ten years later, no appreciable color
> difference can be seen between the car ends and sides. Before the remainder of the (25 car?) group
> left P-S, I expect they were painted in the Southern freight car brown standard. (I can send a
> copy of one of the photos if anyone would like to look for themselves.)

> Please note…this is NOT a criticism of Kadee! Their work is always amazing and their (Sam’s)
> attention to detail is first rate. Based on the data in the P-S lot spec, the paint scheme is
> correct. The model is beautiful and I will have more of them. Maybe Kadee with come out with an
> undec version, I’ll simply spray the car ends ,or, better yet, Kadee will offer more road numbers without the black ends.

> Ike

> PS I don’t know how Kadee does it, but I appreciate the fact that their products are (mostly?) made and assembled in the US.


>




--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Number Change On Kadee Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

George Eichelberger wrote:
"I’ll skip the details but when I purchased and received one of the cars, I questioned the black ends. That led to a spirited series of emails with Kadee and who I consider to be the “most knowledgable” P-S freight car person.

The conclusion, I believe we all agreed to with the “evidence” available, was that the black paint on the Southern car was NOT specified by the SR. The SR cars were part of a lot of 500 produced by P-S that went to a number of railroads to introduce them to the new car based on P-S components. The P-S specification describes the black ends but the Southern spec for 40’ P-S box cars does not.

As the group of SR cars was very small, specific documentation is hard to find but without saying “never”, I think the odds are very high that ONLY the car produced by Kadee had black ends. Multiple photos in the SRHA files of other cars in the group show only FCR ends. While I realize paint could fade before the photos were taken as many as ten years later, no appreciable color difference can be seen between the car ends and sides. Before the remainder of the (25 car?) group left P-S, I expect they were painted in the Southern freight car brown standard. (I can send a copy of one of the photos if anyone would like to look for themselves.)"

PRR had a similar experience, with the 25 PRR Class X48 cars being delivered with black ends.  Anecdotal evidence indicates that these cars were repainted very quickly, though I'm not sure of its validity.


Ben Hom 


Re: Number Change On Kadee Cars

George Eichelberger
 

Just changing the number on the Kadee Southern boxcars may not be enough!

I’ll skip the details but when I purchased and received one of the cars, I questioned the black ends. That led to a spirited series of emails with Kadee and who I consider to be the “most knowledgable” P-S freight car person.

The conclusion, I believe we all agreed to with the “evidence” available, was that the black paint on the Southern car was NOT specified by the SR. The SR cars were part of a lot of 500 produced by P-S that went to a number of railroads to introduce them to the new car based on P-S components. The P-S specification describes the black ends but the Southern spec for 40’ P-S box cars does not.

As the group of SR cars was very small, specific documentation is hard to find but without saying “never”, I think the odds are very high that ONLY the car produced by Kadee had black ends. Multiple photos in the SRHA files of other cars in the group show only FCR ends. While I realize paint could fade before the photos were taken as many as ten years later, no appreciable color difference can be seen between the car ends and sides. Before the remainder of the (25 car?) group left P-S, I expect they were painted in the Southern freight car brown standard. (I can send a copy of one of the photos if anyone would like to look for themselves.)

Please note…this is NOT a criticism of Kadee! Their work is always amazing and their (Sam’s) attention to detail is first rate. Based on the data in the P-S lot spec, the paint scheme is correct. The model is beautiful and I will have more of them. Maybe Kadee with come out with an undec version, I’ll simply spray the car ends ,or, better yet, Kadee will offer more road numbers without the black ends.

Ike

PS I don’t know how Kadee does it, but I appreciate the fact that their products are (mostly?) made and assembled in the US.


Re: Number Change On Kadee Cars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Allen,

It's Ghost White Toner, so any supported color laser printer will work.  I happen to have an HP Color Laser Jet Pro M352dw.  But I just replace the black toner cartridge with one from Ghost White.

The company is German, and I paid overseas shipping for mine at the time, but now they have a US distributor.  Look for that if you go this route.

https://www.ghost-white-toner.com/

Dave

Wednesday, April 29, 2020, 1:02:22 AM, you wrote:

> David,

> Very nicely done and thanks for the advice.

> What printer did you use to print white?

> Allen Cain
>




--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34

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