Date   

Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Richard Townsend
 

Did Train Miniature by any chance tool a diagonal panel roof? Its cars were narrower than most and might be a source for a narrow roof, if they made one.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Apr 29, 2020 3:32 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars


this might help :-)

( photo of LNE 8311 replacement roof - car towards top of the photo )


On 4/29/2020 6:05 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.
 
I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .
 
Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.
 
If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.
 
Thanks
 
Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 

But it was built during our time frame…

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 5:48 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 

Brian

My notes say that photo is from Minneapolis in 1969 - which is why I didn't post it. ;-)



On 4/29/2020 6:35 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

Better color photo.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Brian

My notes say that photo is from Minneapolis in 1969 - which is why I didn't post it. ;-)



On 4/29/2020 6:35 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI wrote:

Better color photo.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Todd Sullivan
 

Hmmm, never thought about the roof panels not lining up after narrowing the roof.

Such a replacement roof (40ft, narrow, overhanging eaves) would also be valuable for modeling NYC System 40ft USRA steel boxcars with replacement roofs.  I have several kits that I should start building sometime soon, and many of these cars had replacement roofs by 1950, according to photos.  Also, did similar USRA steel boxcars on the DL&W get reroofed?

I think the market for such a roof might be bigger than just LNE and MEC cars. 

Todd Sullivan


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Sorry I apologize it fell through the cracks.   I will review .

Hubert 


On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:35 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

Better color photo.

 

 

Thanks!
--
<image001.png>
Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

<NPM 504.jpg>
<image001.png>


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 

Better color photo.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 3:43 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

 


in color


On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s."

Richard's article cites late 1940s as the beginning of roof replacements, so diagonal panel roof if you're doing one of the ARA cars with the 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker distance.

 
"I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .
 
Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.
 
If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same."

This is why Ted's kit was so valuable as the diagonal panel roofs of the LNE and MEC cars are sized to fit these narrower cars.  You can't take a roof from a 40 ft postwar AAR boxcar and narrow it via splitting it down the center as the panels no longer line up.  An alternate approach might be to take a 50 ft diagonal panel roof and shorten it as they're slightly narrower, but this might still be too wide.


Ben Hom  


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Tim O'Connor
 


this might help :-)

( photo of LNE 8311 replacement roof - car towards top of the photo )


On 4/29/2020 6:05 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Thanks and thanks. Pick a NP and shoot it at me.

Hubert

On Apr 29, 2020, at 6:26 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

Hubert

Looking forward to the exNH insulated box (not a reefer).

I have some more NPM photos if you need any.

Stay safe! :-)

Tim

On 4/29/2020 6:00 PM, hubert mask wrote:
Thanks Tim. Your x NH refer in PC is coming.

Hubert
On Apr 29, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


I think your best bet would be 50 foot NPMX decals Hubert - people can use the
Athearn (PFE) reefer, or the old Pacific HO (later Silver Streak) FGE reefer, or
scratchbuild. Early mechanical reefers are a very tough sell because they were
built in small orders and are almost all different from each other.

Tim O'


On 4/29/2020 5:24 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
I would be interested in decals. However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition. I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series, had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm. There were only 25 of these 40 footers.

Chris Frissell

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

Hubert

Looking forward to the exNH insulated box (not a reefer).

I have some more NPM photos if you need any.

Stay safe! :-)

Tim

On 4/29/2020 6:00 PM, hubert mask wrote:
Thanks Tim. Your x NH refer in PC is coming.

Hubert
On Apr 29, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


I think your best bet would be 50 foot NPMX decals Hubert - people can use the
Athearn (PFE) reefer, or the old Pacific HO (later Silver Streak) FGE reefer, or
scratchbuild. Early mechanical reefers are a very tough sell because they were
built in small orders and are almost all different from each other.

Tim O'


On 4/29/2020 5:24 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
I would be interested in decals. However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition. I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series, had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm. There were only 25 of these 40 footers.

Chris Frissell
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Thanks Tim. Your x NH refer in PC is coming.

Hubert

On Apr 29, 2020, at 5:34 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


I think your best bet would be 50 foot NPMX decals Hubert - people can use the
Athearn (PFE) reefer, or the old Pacific HO (later Silver Streak) FGE reefer, or
scratchbuild. Early mechanical reefers are a very tough sell because they were
built in small orders and are almost all different from each other.

Tim O'


On 4/29/2020 5:24 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
I would be interested in decals. However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition. I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series, had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm. There were only 25 of these 40 footers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*



Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
This [attached] may help.

Thanks.  This car does have the PRR Class X29 1928 side sheathing pattern and 5 ft kingpin-to-striker spacing, but the 4/4 Dreadnaught ends are different from the 1932/1934 Class X29 Dreadnaught end (compare with the photo of PRR 100800 from the November 2001 Railmodel Journal article).  Again, not an X29, and not a simple repaint of a Red Caboose dreadnaught end car due to the ends and roof.


Ben Hom


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Ben.

this may help


On 4/29/2020 5:39 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?"

Richard Hendrickson's article on page 16 of the November 2001 issue of Railmodel Journal identified three series of LNE ARA steel boxcars.
http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_2001_11/  

LNE 8001-8200, 200 cars, PSC, October 1927
LNE 8201-8500, 300 cars, Magor, January 1931
Both these series had the ARA side pattern, flat ends, and roof, and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing.  Photos in the article confirms this.
 
The third series, LNE 8501-8750, 250 cars, Magor, December 1934, had 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.  There wasn't a photo with the article, so I can't confirm if these cars were built to the 1928 PRR Class X29 sheathing pattern (or, for that matter, the 5 ft kingpin-to-striker spacing) that the PRR Dreadnaught end cars had.

My previous point still stands - the story of these cars is more complex than previously implied. 


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?"

Richard Hendrickson's article on page 16 of the November 2001 issue of Railmodel Journal identified three series of LNE ARA steel boxcars.
http://magazine.trainlife.com/rmj_2001_11/  

LNE 8001-8200, 200 cars, PSC, October 1927
LNE 8201-8500, 300 cars, Magor, January 1931
Both these series had the ARA side pattern, flat ends, and roof, and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing.  Photos in the article confirms this.
 
The third series, LNE 8501-8750, 250 cars, Magor, December 1934, had 4/4 Dreadnaught ends and rectangular panel roof.  There wasn't a photo with the article, so I can't confirm if these cars were built to the 1928 PRR Class X29 sheathing pattern (or, for that matter, the 5 ft kingpin-to-striker spacing) that the PRR Dreadnaught end cars had.

My previous point still stands - the story of these cars is more complex than previously implied. 


Ben Hom 


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 

I think your best bet would be 50 foot NPMX decals Hubert - people can use the
Athearn (PFE) reefer, or the old Pacific HO (later Silver Streak) FGE reefer, or
scratchbuild. Early mechanical reefers are a very tough sell because they were
built in small orders and are almost all different from each other.

Tim O'

On 4/29/2020 5:24 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
I would be interested in decals.  However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition.  I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series,  had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm. There were only 25 of these 40 footers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


No 40 foot mechanical reefers in HO scale in plastic, resin or brass.


On 4/29/2020 4:59 PM, hubert mask wrote:
Would anyone be interested in a decal for this car and is there a car to fit?

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:42 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:
 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

leakinmywaders
 

I would be interested in decals.  However, only one or two sets, as I think the car other than the ends is a mostly scratch-building proposition.  I believe these, along with one contemporary 50ft NPMX series,  had flat a panel overhanging eave roof, but haven't located an overhead shot to confirm.  There were only 25 of these 40 footers.   

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT 


Re: NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

hubert mask
 

Would anyone be interested in a decal for this car and is there a car to fit?

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Apr 29, 2020, at 4:42 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


in color

On 4/29/2020 3:14 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:

 NPMX 504 Mech Reefer

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
<npmx_504 40ft_reefer PCF-1958 builder 10-1958.jpg>


Re: LNE 1923 ARA Proposed Standard Steel Boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Ben I was under the impression that the LNE had 1923 ARA box cars and then later
also got some 1928 cars that followed the PRR X29 pattern. Not so?

Tim O'Connor


On 4/29/2020 12:22 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Fenton Wells asked:
"LNE X-29 boxcars, 8000 series, Anyone have info on these cars?  I think they were the 8000 series."

As always, the Devil is in the details and the previous quick answers in this thread miss several important points:

- These cars aren't "X-29s", but exhibited the ARA car side rivet pattern and 5 ft 6 in kingpin-to-striker spacing, so repainting a PRR Class X29 model doesn't exactly answer the mail.  RC-7003 (AAR Body w/Steel Plate Ends) is the kit you want - NOT any of the PRR Class X29 variations.

- The cars also received replacement roofs over their service lives.  Ted Culotta offered both kits and conversion parts to model these modified cars.
http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/p109-lehigh-new-england-rebuilt-ara-box-car-parts-set/  

John Sykes III replied:
"Originally the LNE cars were painted a red very similar to PRR freight car color of the early 1940’s.  However, this weathered rapidly and was not helped by the fact that 95%+ of their loadings was Portland cement, in kegs before WWII and following the war, the 1 cubic foot, 94 lb bags still used today.  Portland is very caustic and did a number on the paint. The few remaining X29 clones were repainted in the black scheme starting in 1956, I believe."

Here's an early 1960s Tom Nemeth photo illustrating this.


Ben Hom 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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