Date   

Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:20 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.
Tony, can you define "early", and maybe provide an effective date?  There are photos of Swift reefer with banners as late as 1934.  Was there any connection to the billboard reefer ban, or were they independent edicts from the ICC?
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Tony,

Do you mean on moving trains or on all freight cars, even those parked?   Do you know when that ban happened?

Dave

Thursday, May 14, 2020, 1:20:39 PM, you wrote:


A&Y Dave iwrote:


Re: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load
In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

    Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.

Tony Thompson
tony@...





--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Tony Thompson
 

A&Y Dave iwrote:

In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

    Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.

Tony Thompson




Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Bob Chaparro
 

A few years ago I contacted Kadee and they stated their metal wheels are made of zinc.  I believe some people have had issues with zinc powder being deposited as a black substance on their track.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Latest run of Intermountain (Wegmann) HO PFE Rebuilt Reefers

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bob,

     More to the point they illustrate why I stopped receiving ALL model railroad rags.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Jeff,

In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

I always appreciate when I find an old building with massive solid timber beams.  And having had a chance to visit "Big Trees" State Park in California last year, I have a little feeling of what those forests might have been like.  What's hard to believe is that such old growth forests existed here in the mid-Atlantic coastal states waaay back when.

Thanks for the link.

Dave

Monday, May 4, 2020, 12:49:22 PM, you wrote:


Here’s an amazing early steam era flat car load of “British Columbia Toothpicks”!  From the days when old growth timber was plentiful.  Courtesy Vancouver BC archives site, circa 1893.

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/british-columbia-toothpicks-on-car-at-hastings-sawmill


--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Bruce Smith
 

Fascinating. Note that this load also bridges two flat cars. Much as we discussed recently, it is only fastened at the pivot points, which in this case are near the far end of each flat car. Close examination will show boards under the load at the inner ends of each flat car. These are "skids" as defined in the AAR loading diagrams, that allow movement of the load as the cars move through curves. There is no direct longitudinal (to the load) restraint on movement.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Helm <jeff.helm.60@...>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 11:49 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load
 
Here’s an amazing early steam era flat car load of “British Columbia Toothpicks”!  From the days when old growth timber was plentiful.  Courtesy Vancouver BC archives site, circa 1893.

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/british-columbia-toothpicks-on-car-at-hastings-sawmill


--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

golden1014
 

Hi Brian,

I've used the Kadee .088-tread wheelsets.  Yep, they're made of the same blackened pot metal as the rest of the line.

I have attempted to clean the tread of the Kadee wheels by spinning the wheels with a Dremel equipped with a wire brush on the lowest speed.  The plastic axles have a tendency to melt in the journal box.  Therefore I recommend Reboxx wheelsets if you can still find them.

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany


Re: Photo: Stenciling Freshly Painted NKP Box Car 27676

thmsdmpsy
 

I would say that is a coupler change.  After replacing the coupler, they'll reinstall the existing knuckle and regage the assembly.  If it still passes the gage, then they will replace the knuckle.  As always, Tom

On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 08:42:46 PM PDT, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:


The coupler is there, but the knuckle is laying on the ground below it.
This rig seems to be using the knuckle pin as a fixed pivot point.  With 
that hefty jack for power, I can see making metal move.  
Chuck Peck 


On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 11:32 PM Lee via groups.io <leetrains=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
the straight arms have a chain and what looks like a hoist, so with that and the missing coupler I would say that's how they are changing out the coupler without having to lift by hand.

Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA


On Sunday, May 10, 2020, 07:24:00 PM EDT, Richard Brennan <rbrennan@...> wrote:


At 03:59 PM 5/10/2020, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
><snip>
>http://cdm16066.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16066coll27/id/8731/rec/47

Is that a shop-built tool for taking the 'bulge' from freight damage
out of the stamped steel ends?
I didn't even think that was possible!


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
-------------------- 





Re: Photo: C&O/Pere Marquette/ Gondola

Larry Wolohon
 

Protocraft offers O Scale & Proto 48 models of these in brass,


real nice models. They are Greenville gondola, per RPC # 8. I am finishing up an Erie version of these. Larry Wolohon

On May 10, 2020 at 1:12 PM "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: C&O/Pere Marquette/ Gondola

Photo from the Steam Railroading Institute of Owosso, MI:

https://www.michigansteamtrain.com/about/equipment/chesapeake-and-ohio-gondola-31262

Related photo of Pere Marquette gondola 18400:

https://www.michigansteamtrain.com/application/files/4215/8506/7599/PM_Gondola_18400.jpg

Diagram of PM 18400-18649 gondolas:

https://www.michigansteamtrain.com/application/files/3115/8506/7603/PM_Gondola_Diagram.jpg

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 


Re: NPRHA decals for Rapido NP box.

golden1014
 

Hi Fred, I may have something I can send.  What are you looking for exactly?

John Golden,
Ramstein, Germany


Re: Photo: Pullman Company Boxcar PLM X2023

Michael Aufderheide
 

All,

See page 200 of RPCYC 31& 32, likely just a static test car.

Regards,  

Mike Aufderheide


Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Jeff Helm
 

Here’s an amazing early steam era flat car load of “British Columbia Toothpicks”!  From the days when old growth timber was plentiful.  Courtesy Vancouver BC archives site, circa 1893.

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/british-columbia-toothpicks-on-car-at-hastings-sawmill


--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Brian Carlson
 

In my case the Kadee wheels would be only in Kadee trucks.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@tir.com> wrote:

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Dan and List Members,
 
Dan wrote: “My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”
 
Some folks (myself included) feel that a plastic axle turning within a plastic truck is undesirable for another reason – it produces a lot of static electricity. This being caused by the constant plastic-on-plastic rubbing action. One way to envision this is the old kids trick of rubbing a balloon on your clothes – the balloon then likes to stick to things because of the static charge that the balloon acquires. The theory is that when this occurs with a plastic wheelset to plastic truck combination, dust and dirt is attracted onto the wheelset, and then later that same dust and dirt gets deposited by the wheel onto the track.
 
It sounds plausible to me, but I have no real way of proving this. I do feel my track stays cleaner longer when I don’t run plastic wheelset to plastic truck combinations.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 
 
 

From: Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:22 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee code 88 wheels.
 
Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.
 
1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.
 
2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.
 
Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========
 

On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:
 
Thanks Denny and Todd. 
 
Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  
 
The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.
 
Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864
 
 
 
 


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Two comments based on my experience … YMMV.

1) The kadee plastic axles have a very fibrous structure ... look at the end of one under high magnification. It is ROUGH .. rather like the end of a brush. This seems to cause little if any problem running in metal sideframes, but it is very abrasive to softer plastic sideframes. After long periods of operation it wears the sideframe sockets into oval shapes. This eventually , ruins the sideframes, lowers the car enough to cause coupler-height problems, and destroys rolling qualities. It does take a long time, but is undeniable. I’ve seen it most with Athearn plastic trucks, but that may be because I had so many of them. All these trucks had to be replaced. I don’t have enough experience to know if this also applies to the plastic axle P2K wheelsets. I’ve seen this problem with NO other axles. My current rule is, wherever possible: ”plastic sideframes use metal axles, metal sideframes use plastic axles”.

2) The metal-black DOES contribute to the “black gunk” not the rails. I have lots of experience with this problem. Run a long train of cars with “shiny” metal wheels and have little dirt accumulation after HOURS of operation. Insert a half dozen cars with metal blackened wheelsets, and in an hour or two you’ll have “black gunk” on the rails. This applies to Kadee and many other blackened wheels. One problem I see is that many of them have a LOT of “blackening” residue on the wheels (“over blackened”?) ... often its even powdery and will flake off. This is poor quality control. However, even a smooth, hard blackened surface will wear off in operation, and leave residue the track. I am not sure whether this contributes a lot to poor electrical contact, but it surely does make a mess.

Both observations above are the result of many LONG hours of train operation on a club layout during public display. It’s not unusual to run a 50-70 car train for 5-6 hours continuously, several days a week, for weeks on end, and I’ve been doing this intermittently for over 40 years.

Dan Mitchell
==========


On May 14, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864





Re: Latest run of Intermountain (Wegmann) HO PFE Rebuilt Reefers

William Hirt
 

Intermountain is one of his show's sponsors. That might have something to do with it.

Bill Hirt

On 5/13/2020 7:37 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

I see Ken Patterson is gushing over the latest InterMountain offerings, including the less-than-perfect PFE reefers, on his "What's Neat This Week in Model Railroading" Show #115:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&;v=X8YGQwo5jHI

Shows like these remind me why I stopped subscribing to certain car magazines.

Bob Chaparro


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Tim O'Connor
 


I never use Kadee wheels as replacements for wheelsets, but I have decided to keep the 0.088 wheels
that come in the new HGC trucks. I have roll tested them, and they are a HUGE improvement over the old
Kadee metal trucks. For the metal trucks, Reboxx (or similar) wheels are the way to go.

I've also always shined mine up with a Dremel. But I always use a "donor" sideframe to shine them up and
you must be very careful not to let the Kadee wheels "spin" from the Dremel - this will ruin the soft journals
of the Kadee wheels.

Over MANY years of use, Kadee (and other brands of) plastic journals will wear down to the point where
they basically have to be dragged around rather than rolling freely.

All my fat Kadee and Proto wheels end up as replacements for plastic wheels for cars that end up on Ebay.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/14/2020 9:22 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Denny and Todd.  

Interesting comment on the axle length since I was testing reboxx wheels in the kadee ASF A-3RC truck and the best fitting length was 1.030 or so. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2020, at 1:11 AM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

I find the Kadee 88 wheels to be excellent in many ways, not excluding appearance and quality assurance as to gauge, etc.  The blackening will not leave residue on the rails. Shining  the treads certainly looks good, but operationally, it is not necessary.  

The axle lengths last measured were a uniform 1.015” (like the current Rapido), but the ends are have currently-unusual thick acetal curved-taper ends.  Unlike most other current high quality metal wheel sets, e.g. IM, Reboxx, Exactrail, Rapido, and (reportedly) Molocco that have straight taper 2mm ends, the combination of acetal (vs. metal), and the thicker ends makes these fine wheels sometimes difficult to adapt effectively to trucks other than Kadee.  I still try to use them as often as I can, but for my purposes (maximum rollability), that is not often as I would like.  I keep  trying, however.

Denny
 
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864




Re: 10' High by 8' Wide Superior Doors

Benjamin Hom
 

Fenton Wells wrote:
"Didn’t Sunshine make the door for their EJ&E mini kit?  Might want to find one of those and copy it in resin."

It had better be a really good door, as going through the trouble to copy it might not be worth the squeeze if you only need one or two.  The irony of this is if you can handle resin, you should be able to scratchbuild a Superior door.


Ben Hom

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