Date   

Re: Kurtz Kraft PFE Reefer Prototype?

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro asked:
"Kurtz Kraft PFE Reefer Prototype?
Does this HO scale Kurtz Kraft PFE reefer resemble any particular PFE prototype or is it a foobie?"

Bogus model out of the box.  The deal breaker is the model's reuse of the proprietary PS-1 roof from the Kurtz Kraft boxcar kit.


Ben Hom


Re: Photo: Stenciling Freshly Painted NKP Box Car 27676

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Such an interesting picture demonstrating hard work and ingenuity at it's finest. I love those ladder/platforms!

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 01:18:41 PM CDT, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:


http://cdm16066.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16066coll27/id/8731/rec/47

Why does everybody keep making this about the coupler? It's an END STRAIGHTENER. The rod back to the knuckle pin is the anchor. When the guy with the welder's goggles at the left in the picture raises the jack, the handle of which he is resting his hand on, the rig pulls against the coupler, while the two legs above push on the end. The guys with the sledges are there to help it along, really there to make a racket so the foreman knows they are working and stays in his office. The light block and tackle hung on the running board bracket is only there to help position the push legs, using the chain draped over the legs.

Dennis Storzek


Kurtz Kraft PFE Reefer Prototype?

Bob Chaparro
 

Kurtz Kraft PFE Reefer Prototype?

Does this HO scale Kurtz Kraft PFE reefer resemble any particular PFE prototype or is it a foobie?

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup/topic/kurtz_kraft_prototype/74211380?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,74211380

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo LPTC 449 (Poultry Car)

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Bob,

Cool picture. My, but how things change. Here's a couple guys whose job is to sheppard hundreds of chickens in a dirty, confined space across the distance and look how they dress. lol

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 12:55:07 PM CDT, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photo LPTC 449 (Poultry Car)

A fair quality photo from the Vintage Bentonville website:

https://www.vintagebentonville.com/uploads/1/0/7/6/107671135/published/404-watermark.jpg?1519851561

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Stenciling Freshly Painted NKP Box Car 27676

Dennis Storzek
 

http://cdm16066.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16066coll27/id/8731/rec/47

Why does everybody keep making this about the coupler? It's an END STRAIGHTENER. The rod back to the knuckle pin is the anchor. When the guy with the welder's goggles at the left in the picture raises the jack, the handle of which he is resting his hand on, the rig pulls against the coupler, while the two legs above push on the end. The guys with the sledges are there to help it along, really there to make a racket so the foreman knows they are working and stays in his office. The light block and tackle hung on the running board bracket is only there to help position the push legs, using the chain draped over the legs.

Dennis Storzek


Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Andy Carlson
 

My train room sits atop my 36' x 64' 2-story structure. My two 16' RR benchworks are directy over on one of two 12"x12"x66' Doug Fir beams. This whole place was my childhood friend's family owned house and 2-story building. He told me that back in 1960, building the 2-story his dad purchased two beams from a wooden bridge being pulled out due to the forthcoming waters of the new Lake Casitas impoundment. I can not even see a good chance for a purchase today of beams of this size, and to understand that each of these "toothpick" beams could have been cut into 9 of my 12x12 beams! The Pacific Northwest sure had some impressive trees!

I remember around the early 1970s we started to see a drop in lumber quality in Southern California, as lots of 2nd growth Doug Fir was starting to overtake the old growth stuff. The changeover for quite some time is now complete; you can not find old growth, fine grain 2x6 units anywhere, at least new.

Restoring old wooden freight cars today requires some changes, such as glue-lams or even recycled milk bottle constructed beams, as most remaining old growth is too valuable and much goes to window, door and sash mills..
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:57 AM, A&Y Dave in MD wrote:
b) Advertisements may be painted upon passenger equipment used in special train movements the expense of painting and removal to be borne by the user This does not prohibit the placing of advertisements or banners on the lading or attaching them to temporary stakes used to secure the lading on open top cars
So, since the banners are attached to the timbers, they are good to travel that way.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Google can be your friend, but it can take a while to find.

"Rule 8 The placing of advertisements or banners of any kind upon any freight or passenger car or locomotive including permanent stakes which are a part of open top cars is prohibited except

a) Advertisements or banners may be placed thereon for photographic purposes only while such equipment is at rest on private tracks or on service tracks of the railroad and when so placed must be removed prior to movements of the equipment the placement and removal to be by and at the expense of the shipper or consignee

b) Advertisements may be painted upon passenger equipment used in special train movements the expense of painting and removal to be borne by the user This does not prohibit the placing of advertisements or banners on the lading or attaching them to temporary stakes used to secure the lading on open top cars

335 ICC

I'm not sure of the date for this.  Still looking, but this is the language.

source:
https://books.google.com/books?id=smJQ-N89PH8C&pg=PA334&lpg=PA334&dq=Interstate+Commerce+Commission+ICC+rule+railroad+freight+car+banners&source=bl&ots=sV4TuB4e4X&sig=ACfU3U1CpGZeVe8djkjMT_cCFW5Agn-MEw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjulc_d87PpAhXpoHIEHZTsC8gQ6AEwAHoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=Interstate%20Commerce%20Commission%20ICC%20rule%20railroad%20freight%20car%20banners&f=false

Thursday, May 14, 2020, 1:33:21 PM, you wrote:


Tony,

Do you mean on moving trains or on all freight cars, even those parked?   Do you know when that ban happened?

Dave

Thursday, May 14, 2020, 1:20:39 PM, you wrote:


A&Y Dave iwrote:


Re: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load
In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

    Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.

Tony Thompson
tony@...




--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Photo LPTC 449 (Poultry Car)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo LPTC 449 (Poultry Car)

A fair quality photo from the Vintage Bentonville website:

https://www.vintagebentonville.com/uploads/1/0/7/6/107671135/published/404-watermark.jpg?1519851561

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

Tony, can you define "early", and maybe provide an effective date?  There are photos of Swift reefer with banners as late as 1934.  Was there any connection to the billboard reefer ban, or were they independent edicts from the ICC?

         As late as the first decade of the 20th century, posters, banners and notices of all kinds were attached to freight car sides, and I recall that those were banned (i browsed ALL of Railway Age while researching the PFE book) in that period, but I can't remember more specifically. 
         Whether one could obtain dispensation for a really special load, I don't know.

Tony Thompson




Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

I don't have much experience with running trains for hours on end since my friend with a great layout moved back to the mainland.  At that time I did not experience any problems with Kadee wheel sets.

My standard for wheel sets now is Kadee sets for ribbed back wheels and Intermountaln for all others.  The Kadee sets have raised lettering on the face.  Although you don't see this when the car is on a layout the same applies to most of the other details that we spend hours to create.

I also use John Goldens method of using a wire brush in a Dremel in the treads.  I have not experienced any problems probably because it only takes a few seconds to polish the treads.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "golden1014 via groups.io" <golden1014@...>
Date: 5/14/20 12:17 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee code 88 wheels.

Hi Brian,

I've used the Kadee .088-tread wheelsets.  Yep, they're made of the same blackened pot metal as the rest of the line.

I have attempted to clean the tread of the Kadee wheels by spinning the wheels with a Dremel equipped with a wire brush on the lowest speed.  The plastic axles have a tendency to melt in the journal box.  Therefore I recommend Reboxx wheelsets if you can still find them.

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Tony Thompson
 

Do you mean on moving trains or on all freight cars, even those parked?   Do you know when that ban happened?

      I believe it was for moving trains. Obviously there was some slack, because often big loads had placards on them, giving the builder name if nothing else, but the routine attachment on car sides did largely disappear. As you mention, of course, a stationary car might be photographed with a banner for publicity purposes, then the banner removed before the load was switched out.

Tony Thompson




Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 10:20 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.
Tony, can you define "early", and maybe provide an effective date?  There are photos of Swift reefer with banners as late as 1934.  Was there any connection to the billboard reefer ban, or were they independent edicts from the ICC?
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Tony,

Do you mean on moving trains or on all freight cars, even those parked?   Do you know when that ban happened?

Dave

Thursday, May 14, 2020, 1:20:39 PM, you wrote:


A&Y Dave iwrote:


Re: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load
In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

    Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.

Tony Thompson
tony@...





--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Tony Thompson
 

A&Y Dave iwrote:

In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

    Such banners were disallowed by the ICC early in the 20th century.

Tony Thompson




Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

Bob Chaparro
 

A few years ago I contacted Kadee and they stated their metal wheels are made of zinc.  I believe some people have had issues with zinc powder being deposited as a black substance on their track.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Latest run of Intermountain (Wegmann) HO PFE Rebuilt Reefers

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bob,

     More to the point they illustrate why I stopped receiving ALL model railroad rags.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Jeff,

In the period around the turn of the 20th century, the lack of TV and other media forms led to a lot of that type of banner advertising on the railroads.  I wonder if they were only used for photos, or rolled up and unrolled at various station stops?  I've seen "carload" furniture sale banners, fruit banners, and other goods advertised like this on the sides of steam-only era freight cars.   Modeling something like this in a diorama like scene on a layout would be fun.

I always appreciate when I find an old building with massive solid timber beams.  And having had a chance to visit "Big Trees" State Park in California last year, I have a little feeling of what those forests might have been like.  What's hard to believe is that such old growth forests existed here in the mid-Atlantic coastal states waaay back when.

Thanks for the link.

Dave

Monday, May 4, 2020, 12:49:22 PM, you wrote:


Here’s an amazing early steam era flat car load of “British Columbia Toothpicks”!  From the days when old growth timber was plentiful.  Courtesy Vancouver BC archives site, circa 1893.

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/british-columbia-toothpicks-on-car-at-hastings-sawmill


--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Bruce Smith
 

Fascinating. Note that this load also bridges two flat cars. Much as we discussed recently, it is only fastened at the pivot points, which in this case are near the far end of each flat car. Close examination will show boards under the load at the inner ends of each flat car. These are "skids" as defined in the AAR loading diagrams, that allow movement of the load as the cars move through curves. There is no direct longitudinal (to the load) restraint on movement.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Helm <jeff.helm.60@...>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 11:49 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load
 
Here’s an amazing early steam era flat car load of “British Columbia Toothpicks”!  From the days when old growth timber was plentiful.  Courtesy Vancouver BC archives site, circa 1893.

https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/british-columbia-toothpicks-on-car-at-hastings-sawmill


--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: Kadee code 88 wheels.

golden1014
 

Hi Brian,

I've used the Kadee .088-tread wheelsets.  Yep, they're made of the same blackened pot metal as the rest of the line.

I have attempted to clean the tread of the Kadee wheels by spinning the wheels with a Dremel equipped with a wire brush on the lowest speed.  The plastic axles have a tendency to melt in the journal box.  Therefore I recommend Reboxx wheelsets if you can still find them.

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany

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