Date   

Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 09:43 AM, Jack Mullen wrote:
Tim, I think you're just misinterpreting the photo. Look carefully at the horizontal seam between the end sections and I think you'll see the curvature of the corner. The end looks like a normal IDE.
I agree with Jack. Also, Dreadnaught ends with W section corner posts made use of castings or forgings to terminate the side sills and the Z bar that formed the side plate, and these parts had curvature to match the corner of the end. Both show rather well in this photo, with a highlight on the curved surface of each.

This photo illustrates the fact that not all paint schemes that used black ends painted the entire flange of the end black, since it was easier to mask clear of the rivets. I recall noting on the "square" cornered cars on the Soo Line, the color separation was masked on the little 1" or so radius curve that made the actual corner.

Dennis Storzek


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Eric Hansmann
 

That is some very nice work on the CB&T kit, Bob. I recall having difficulty working with the plastic of these kits. About 20 years ago, I upgraded several of use on a club layout. Installing the metal A-Line sill steps was a chore.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chapman
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 12:54 AM
To: STMFC <main@realSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

 

With a bit of trepidation, here's another upgrade to a rivet-starved C&BT carbody from deep in the unbuilt kit stash -- this one the 7-foot door variation, detailed for NKP. 

 

Detail replacements include Yarmouth Apex running board, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee bracket grabs and brake wheel, and Kato A-3 trucks. Unable to spot a 7-foot prewar Youngstown door as an aftermarket part, I narrowed an 8-foot Cannonball Car Shops door (from a really low level of the parts stash!). Decals are Microscale. 

 

Weathering is heavier on this one -- hard to stay clean around all those sooty Berks. The right side weathering next to the A end was a weathering mistake -- hard to think of a prototype situation where this pattern would occur, but I like it, and I'm sticking with it. 

 

Bob Chapman


Re: GN plywood boxcar composite doors

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Bruce,
Try 
Blick.com
They are a national Art store that supplies to the professional and hobbiest. Not a craft store.
You want to put 
Enviortex Lite 
in the search bar. They have different sizes ranging from $9.42 to 
$46.26. They are complete kits with all you need. 

ArtMolds 407 Latex Casting Rubber

$26 to $107.00 or use RTV silicone sealer make sure to spray or brush a mold release on the original. Most of us use PAM which is an areosol cooking oil.

Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 05:08:15 PM CDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:


Here is the door painted by Bill Welch years ago....



-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Ore car help

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Sounds like a prototype variant on the Modelers’ Law: scratchbuild or kitbash a steam era freight car and a commercial product will likely appear (with the corollary—it will only appear in commercial form if you only needed one or two; if you need a fleet, they will remain unavailable and your notes on how you built the first will disappear mysteriously).

Dave Bott


On May 16, 2020, at 2:15 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

That car was discussed by William Voss in his work on freight car construction, reprinted years ago in the Trainshed Cuclopedia series as "Freightcars 1892". I don't recall the name of Voss' original work. In it Voss makes the statement that since car capacity had reached the practical limit of carrying capacity of wrought Iron axles, high capacity cars of the future would have three or more trucks. That on the cusp of the of steel being adopted for axle material. The rest, as they say, is history.

Dennis Storzek

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Ore car help

Dennis Storzek
 

That car was discussed by William Voss in his work on freight car construction, reprinted years ago in the Trainshed Cuclopedia series as "Freightcars 1892". I don't recall the name of Voss' original work. In it Voss makes the statement that since car capacity had reached the practical limit of carrying capacity of wrought Iron axles, high capacity cars of the future would have three or more trucks. That on the cusp of the of steel being adopted for axle material. The rest, as they say, is history.

Dennis Storzek


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Bob:

This car stands tall against any group of cars.  I think most of us "older" modelers have some of these kits on our shelf.  You have proved that they deserve resurrection.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Paul Doggett via groups.io" <paul.doggett2472@...>
Date: 5/15/20 11:41 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Bob 

It looks great.

Paul Doggett.    England 


On 16 May 2020, at 06:54, Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...> wrote:


With a bit of trepidation, here's another upgrade to a rivet-starved C&BT carbody from deep in the unbuilt kit stash -- this one the 7-foot door variation, detailed for NKP. 

Detail replacements include Yarmouth Apex running board, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee bracket grabs and brake wheel, and Kato A-3 trucks. Unable to spot a 7-foot prewar Youngstown door as an aftermarket part, I narrowed an 8-foot Cannonball Car Shops door (from a really low level of the parts stash!). Decals are Microscale. 

Weathering is heavier on this one -- hard to stay clean around all those sooty Berks. The right side weathering next to the A end was a weathering mistake -- hard to think of a prototype situation where this pattern would occur, but I like it, and I'm sticking with it. 

Bob Chapman

Attachments:


Re: Ore car help

Mel Chase
 

Thank you both Tom and Steve for the information.  Looks like there is enough there to build that good looking ore car.  I forwarded your replies to him.  Mel


Photo: Santa Fe Bx-3/Bx-6 Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Santa Fe Bx-3/Bx-6 Boxcar

A mid-1950s scene taken at San Bernardino, CA, from the Kansas State Historical Society's archives:

https://www.kshs.org/index.php?url=km/items/view/304929

I believe the boxcar in the photo is either a Bx-3 or a Bx-6, a survivor of an original group of 5,000 boxcars built between 1923 and 1925.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Jack Mullen
 

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
They appear to be "S corner" rather than "W corner"
Tim, I think you're just misinterpreting the photo. Look carefully at the horizontal seam between the end sections and I think you'll see the curvature of the corner. The end looks like a normal IDE.

Jack Mullen


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Steve and Barb Hile
 

NKP 5000 – 5499 were built by Pullman Standard in 1946 under lot 5840.   Drawings may be available at IRM Pullman Library, like General Arrangement 513-F-67.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 10:34 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

 


Has anyone got a better view of the ends than this photo? They appear to be "S corner" rather than "W corner"
ends, and that would be very unusual even for 1946. Perhaps a Pressed Steel Car proprietary end?

Tim O'



On 5/16/2020 10:56 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:

Bob looks good. Only one small issue is the cars have 8 rung ladders not 9. 

 

You picked a good number too. 5000-5249 had superior doors. 5250-5499 had Youngstown. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On May 16, 2020, at 1:54 AM, Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...> wrote:



With a bit of trepidation, here's another upgrade to a rivet-starved C&BT carbody from deep in the unbuilt kit stash -- this one the 7-foot door variation, detailed for NKP. 

 

Detail replacements include Yarmouth Apex running board, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee bracket grabs and brake wheel, and Kato A-3 trucks. Unable to spot a 7-foot prewar Youngstown door as an aftermarket part, I narrowed an 8-foot Cannonball Car Shops door (from a really low level of the parts stash!). Decals are Microscale. 

 

Weathering is heavier on this one -- hard to stay clean around all those sooty Berks. The right side weathering next to the A end was a weathering mistake -- hard to think of a prototype situation where this pattern would occur, but I like it, and I'm sticking with it. 

 

Bob Chapman

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Ore car help

Steve and Barb Hile
 

With a little help from Google, you can find the Engineering New article at

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=tSpKAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA371-IA1&lpg=PA371-IA1&dq=engineering+news+april+19+1890&source=bl&ots=ieC7H681hn&sig=ACfU3U27xodyEtDaPhLpSe8fOAkAK1mJ7w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwifh6Lo1rjpAhXkl3IEHadTDPwQ6AEwA3oECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=engineering%20news%20april%2019%201890&f=false

 

But the drawing was a fold out page that is a little worse for wear.  See the attached.

 

The steel car in the background is a Standard Steel Car company build, with builder’s photo available from Keith Retterer number A-261 and A-262, built in 1905.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Thomas Evans via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2020 9:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ore car help

 

Yes Mel,

John White's American Railroad Freight Car has an excellent detailed plan of this car on pp354-355.
It's reproduced from  Engineering News of April 19, 1890 (so a bit outside the time frame of this group, but obviously still in use later).
We've had some discussion of it over on the Early Rail site from time to time most recently in September 2019.
Here's a link to the LofC site for this photo:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2005679929/

Tom E.


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Tim O'Connor
 


Has anyone got a better view of the ends than this photo? They appear to be "S corner" rather than "W corner"
ends, and that would be very unusual even for 1946. Perhaps a Pressed Steel Car proprietary end?

Tim O'



On 5/16/2020 10:56 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:
Bob looks good. Only one small issue is the cars have 8 rung ladders not 9. 

You picked a good number too. 5000-5249 had superior doors. 5250-5499 had Youngstown. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 16, 2020, at 1:54 AM, Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...> wrote:


With a bit of trepidation, here's another upgrade to a rivet-starved C&BT carbody from deep in the unbuilt kit stash -- this one the 7-foot door variation, detailed for NKP. 

Detail replacements include Yarmouth Apex running board, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee bracket grabs and brake wheel, and Kato A-3 trucks. Unable to spot a 7-foot prewar Youngstown door as an aftermarket part, I narrowed an 8-foot Cannonball Car Shops door (from a really low level of the parts stash!). Decals are Microscale. 

Weathering is heavier on this one -- hard to stay clean around all those sooty Berks. The right side weathering next to the A end was a weathering mistake -- hard to think of a prototype situation where this pattern would occur, but I like it, and I'm sticking with it. 

Bob Chapman


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Ore car help

Thomas Evans
 

I forgot to mention that the Pennsy had some similar cars in that period that also show up in LofC photos.
You'll want to download the highest resolution scan of the first photo here to see detail.  (It may take a while to download)

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/det/item/2016800799/

Tom


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Brian Carlson
 

Bob looks good. Only one small issue is the cars have 8 rung ladders not 9. 

You picked a good number too. 5000-5249 had superior doors. 5250-5499 had Youngstown. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 16, 2020, at 1:54 AM, Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...> wrote:


With a bit of trepidation, here's another upgrade to a rivet-starved C&BT carbody from deep in the unbuilt kit stash -- this one the 7-foot door variation, detailed for NKP. 

Detail replacements include Yarmouth Apex running board, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee bracket grabs and brake wheel, and Kato A-3 trucks. Unable to spot a 7-foot prewar Youngstown door as an aftermarket part, I narrowed an 8-foot Cannonball Car Shops door (from a really low level of the parts stash!). Decals are Microscale. 

Weathering is heavier on this one -- hard to stay clean around all those sooty Berks. The right side weathering next to the A end was a weathering mistake -- hard to think of a prototype situation where this pattern would occur, but I like it, and I'm sticking with it. 

Bob Chapman
<NKP #5313 3-4 B Elev Wea.JPG>
<NKP #5313 3-4 A Elev Wea.JPG>
<NKP #5313 Unptd.JPG>


Re: Ore car help

Thomas Evans
 

Yes Mel,

John White's American Railroad Freight Car has an excellent detailed plan of this car on pp354-355.
It's reproduced from  Engineering News of April 19, 1890 (so a bit outside the time frame of this group, but obviously still in use later).
We've had some discussion of it over on the Early Rail site from time to time most recently in September 2019.
Here's a link to the LofC site for this photo:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2005679929/

Tom E.


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Bill Welch
 

"With a bit of trepidation. . ." Bob, glad to see you are not cowed by comments from some who have never shared photos of their modeling thus conveintly avoiding scrutiny. I like your weathering "accident" too.

You might consider joining and then posting your Styrene Modeling to this "io" group: main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io
After all there is no shortage of these kits and I am sure there are people beyond this group that would enjoy and be inspired by what you are doing.

Model On!
Bill Welch


Re: UP stock car decals

John Sykes III
 

Actually, if you convert the color of these to a yellow, you can use them on just about any UPRR freight cars.  I made them up in three sizes to best fit the scale.  In HO they work out to roughly 2", 3" & 4" tall.  Note that secondary Champ decals were often oversized -- it was a trade-off of legibility vs. correct scale (I think it is called "Greeking" in the printing industry.  Or is that when the letters are sort of smeared but in scale?).

-- John 


Re: UP stock car decals

John Sykes III
 

Here's a master I made for UP stock cars, because the Microscale set is (or was - they may have added it) missing the end markings -- or was it thew Athearn decorated cars -- its been so long I forgot the reason why I made these up,  Note that this is in a "stencil" font.  This is red for the yellow cars.  Just use Word to convert these from red to yellow (use a darker yellow or they won't show up right on the model) for the red cars.  It is set up to print on the Testors 8-1/2" x 5-1/2" decal sheets.

-- John


Re: Rutland House Car Color

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

There's no reason for anyone to think that Rutand stock cars were painted in a color different
from the boxcars, Bill, so the Iron Oxide should stand you in good stead. Hope to see the 
finished car as It may get me going on my three to be mass completed. as my five Rutland
and one B&A 36 ft. boxcars were done. I wanted more cars from the local roads but wonder
if you could recommend a good Georgia & Florida box car model to join them.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: NKP 1944 AAR Boxcar - C&BT Upgrade #3

Dave Boss
 

Bob 
                Great job on the CB&T car. I have a ton of these cars to do. You have given me some inspiration to get one of these cars out and up grade it as well.

Dave

On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 8:26 AM James Brewer <jim.brewer.3611@...> wrote:
Nice work Bob!

Jim Brewer

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