Date   

Re: Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

mel perry
 

didn"t they have boxcars back.then,
would have simply things?
mel perry

On Mon, May 18, 2020, 11:43 AM David Payne via groups.io <davidcofga=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Cover the load with tarps before it departed ... and hope for the best.

David Payne


Re: refrigerator car ice hatches

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Ray,

Whether the cars had hatch platforms depended on the builder and the owner. In the later years of ice refrigerators, many owners dispensed with the platforms, but some didn't. Then there was the SFRD. Most Santa Fe reefers were built with their hatches opening the "wrong" direction, that is, hinges toward the car end instead of toward the doors. When mechanical icing became became common after WWII, they had to rebuild their fleet with the hatches turned in the more common direction. Some of their cars still had hatch platforms, but these were all removed in the rebuilding program.

The moral of our story: check photographs.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 12:47 PM Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...> wrote:
I have been looking online for some definitive information, not finding it there, thought I would ask the following:  In the first decades of the 1900s, there were two types of roof hatches for refrigerator cars.  One had an extension of the running boards with the ice hatch offset toward the car end; the platform could hold individual while they were loading the ice.  Second did not have this platform, but simply the ice hatches directly on the car roof.  (The Ambroid express reefers and Train Miniature models have the platforms, the Sunset and Accurail models of pre-WWI reefers do not).

I imagine that the explanation has something to do with (changes) in the roof construction but have not found documentation.

-- ray hutchison


Re: C&O MW Photos

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

I've considered that. My C&O/CSX negatives number over 500, plus around 200 for the Buckingham Branch Railroad (which I'm sure they would want), and more for lines associated with the C&O: Nelson & Albemarle, Shenandoah Valley, Rock Ten Paper, Shepherd Grain . . . Ouch! Someday they're going to get a CD, which should have the ID info attached to each image. First I owe their President an article on the Nelson & Albemarle which I wrote before I had health issues, but have never gotten back to finishing the photos.

My push right now is to get all my negatives scanned up and Photoshopped. I've nearly finished most of my binders including all the Virginia stuff since I moved to Charlottesville. The two big ones binders from California going back to the 1960s are maybe half done, but that still leaves maybe 2,000 images to work up.

Before I die, I hope to send all my stuff to various museums, since my sweetheart says when I go, it all goes too . . . right into the trash.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 1:54 PM Bob Chapman <chapbob611@...> wrote:
Garth --

Nice photos! If you haven't already, you should send these to the C&OHS for their archives, along with caption info for each (date, location, photographer, car number, car provenance, etc.) summarized from your comments. I'm sure they would be interested.


Regards,
Bob Chapman


Re: Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

earlyrail
 

a.  Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars
From: Bob Chaparro
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 10:19:26 PDT

Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

A 1909 photo from the Washington State Historical Society:


The pacific northwest was late getting to bulk wheat harvest.  This was bagged coming off
the early combines.  So they did not have the midwestern elevators, they had "flat" houses
that stored the bagged grain.
So while the flat cars were not normal, the bagged grain was.

Howard Garner


Re: refrigerator car ice hatches

Dave Parker
 

I have to disagree with Dennis, at least with respect to MDT, which is the only private reefer fleet with which I am familiar.

Between 1911 and 1917, MDT built 3700+ 40-ft reefers.  Most, possibly all, had outside-metal roofs when built, or else later rebuilt any with "wood" roofs, probably in the 1920s.  None had the the wood icing platforms that Dennis describes.

In 1923-24, MDT built 4500 MOL similar cars, none of which had Icing platforms.

The last group of these classic wood reefers was built in 1925-28, some 3250 cars, and only these have icing platforms in any of the photos in my collection.

Apparently, MDT wasn't too worried about the ability of those Murphy roofs to withstand foot traffic.  I'm sure others can speak to PFE, FGEX, SFRD, etc.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


WP and SP&S 1944 AAR Boxcars -- C&BT Upgrades #4 & #5

Bob Chapman
 

A two-fer this time. C&BT upgrade projects #4 and #5, WP and SP&S boxcars -- 1944 AAR C&BT carbodies upgraded with contemporary detail parts. Both will be a long way from home on my midwestern-theme layout.

WP car details include a Yarmouth Morton runningboard, Kadee ladders/grabs/Ajax handbrake, and Kato ASF A-3 trucks. Decals are Champ. With the Champ set's incorrect build date (51 vs. 47), I elected to keep the car fresh and unweathered (although maybe I should have weathered out that bad build date!). Plus -- I really like that classy silver lettering and hated to dirty it up. 

The SP&S car has a Yarmouth Apex runningboard, Tichy 8/8 ladders, Kadee grabs and Ajax brakewheel, and Kato A-3's. Decals are Microscale. Wish I could have done the car in those big SP&S letters, but by the time they came in, steam was pretty much gone on my roads. Weathering is Greg Martin's Post-It technique with some Prismacolor pencil highlighting. 

One more to go....

Regards,
Bob Chapman


Re: refrigerator car ice hatches

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 09:46 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:
I imagine that the explanation has something to do with (changes) in the roof construction but have not found documentation.
The difference wasn't driven by the hatch covers, although they changed with time. It most certainly was driven by they type of roofing. The early metal roofs were thin sheet metal and were felt to not be suitable for foot traffic. This led some owners, such as Swift and Union Refrigerator Transit to adopt what were called "inside metal roofs" which had the sheet metal panels under a wood outer covering. Modelers typically call these wood roofs. The wood covering protected the sheet metal panels, and was thought to be no more slippery than wood running boards, so cars with these roofs had the hatch covers directly on the roof. Cars from owners who chose outside metal roofs, such as Burlington Refrigerator Express, also had the hatch covers directly on the roof surface, but they were surrounded by a wood platform, basically an extension of the running boards, for the icing platform workers to walk on. The later steel roofs were heavier gauge metal and able to withstand foot traffic, and the platforms were replaced by just adding granuals to the paint for a non-slip surface. Examples would be the Fruit Growers fleet after they were re-roofed with Hutchins roofs, and PFE.

The hatch covers had their own evolution, separate from but parallel to the roof construction. Originally shallow wood boxes, they were often covered with sheet metal. By the WWII era they were steel pressings with more overhang and rounded corners.

Dennis Storzek


Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

David Payne
 


Cover the load with tarps before it departed ... and hope for the best.

David Payne


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Richard Wilkens
 

These are probably cants, which would later be sawed into other sizes of lumber. Or possibly due to the length these would be made into ship masts.

Rich Wilkens


Re: C&O MW Photos

Bob Chapman
 

Garth --

Nice photos! If you haven't already, you should send these to the C&OHS for their archives, along with caption info for each (date, location, photographer, car number, car provenance, etc.) summarized from your comments. I'm sure they would be interested.

cohs.org

Regards,
Bob Chapman


Re: Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

Jared Harper
 

If it rained?

Jared Harper


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Robert kirkham
 

Interesting – I’ve seen other loads with that kind of caption.  Kind of surprising that the surface of the timbers look like they were finished with an adze, rather than through a saw.  I cant read the reporting marks on the flat cars.

 

Rob

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 10:24 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

 

More Toothpicks

A 1919 postcard photo from the Washington State Historical Society:

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/imu/api/file/5805

Description:

Lithograph colored promotional post card showing three large timbers on two flat cars, 1919. Labeled, "Washington Tooth Picks."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Distinctive Flat Car Toothpicks Timber Load

Bob Chaparro
 

More Toothpicks

A 1919 postcard photo from the Washington State Historical Society:

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/imu/api/file/5805

Description:

Lithograph colored promotional post card showing three large timbers on two flat cars, 1919. Labeled, "Washington Tooth Picks."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Grain Sacks On Flat Cars

A 1909 photo from the Washington State Historical Society:

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/imu/api/file/25296

Description:

"Postcard (8.5x13.5 cm.) featuring Columbia River Milling Company building beside railroad flatcars holding bags of milled grain. Several workers stand on top of bags. Published in Wilbur, WA. Printed in Germany."

I'm speculating there was a boxcar shortage or, given the date and the state of alternative transportation, this was more common way back then.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


refrigerator car ice hatches

Ray Hutchison
 

I have been looking online for some definitive information, not finding it there, thought I would ask the following:  In the first decades of the 1900s, there were two types of roof hatches for refrigerator cars.  One had an extension of the running boards with the ice hatch offset toward the car end; the platform could hold individual while they were loading the ice.  Second did not have this platform, but simply the ice hatches directly on the car roof.  (The Ambroid express reefers and Train Miniature models have the platforms, the Sunset and Accurail models of pre-WWI reefers do not).

I imagine that the explanation has something to do with (changes) in the roof construction but have not found documentation.

-- ray hutchison


Re: C&O MW Photos

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

HI Garth,
 
I’m thoroughly enjoying the photos – go ahead and hog some bandwidth!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 11:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O MW Photos
 
John,
 
I think X-1218 and 705 were the only cars I found with old lettering. I'm sure there must have been some kind of logic to it, but the numbering schemes probably changed from time to time, especially through mergers. Almost everything else except Burro Cranes had Chessie System numbering by the time I came to the area. MW cars were all numbered in the 9XXXXX series. I began to detect some sort of pattern, such as 910XXX seemed to be for boxcars and so on. Then I ran across some cars that seemed to blow this idea out of the water. (Sigh!)
 
Agreed that MW equipment is often a goldmine for cars from our era, and fortunately some cars in MW service have gone to museums for restoration to something at least approximating revenue-service condition.
 
I have more C&O goodies to share, and some Southern and N&W too. And then I might go on to some really keen stuff I found on New Hampshire shortlines around 2000 (like hoppers with New Haven lettering still showing!). I don't want to hog too much band width though.
 
Your Aye,
 
 
Garth Groff 
 
 
 
 
On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM mofwcaboose via groups.io <MOFWCABOOSE@...> wrote:
Some railroads  always identified the type of camp car on the side, some railroads identified them by prefixes  or suffixes in the number, and some did not bother at all,,,the C&O was in the latter group. No comprehensive roster of C&O equipment has ever surfaced, and the COHS has published some  booklets, but nothing really definitive. Thus identifying C&O camp car types is rather speculative. While it is safe to say that these cars are either tool or material cars, one cannot go further then that. The one with the bars behind the windows might be a tool car; the bars are to keep someone from breaking in and stealing the tools (as if anyone could fit through those windows!).
 
Nonrevenue equipment can be a valuable look at old rolling stock, provided information is available on their history. Again, some railroads were good in that regard, others not so much.
 
John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL

 


Re: C&O MW Photos

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

John,

I think X-1218 and 705 were the only cars I found with old lettering. I'm sure there must have been some kind of logic to it, but the numbering schemes probably changed from time to time, especially through mergers. Almost everything else except Burro Cranes had Chessie System numbering by the time I came to the area. MW cars were all numbered in the 9XXXXX series. I began to detect some sort of pattern, such as 910XXX seemed to be for boxcars and so on. Then I ran across some cars that seemed to blow this idea out of the water. (Sigh!)

Agreed that MW equipment is often a goldmine for cars from our era, and fortunately some cars in MW service have gone to museums for restoration to something at least approximating revenue-service condition.

I have more C&O goodies to share, and some Southern and N&W too. And then I might go on to some really keen stuff I found on New Hampshire shortlines around 2000 (like hoppers with New Haven lettering still showing!). I don't want to hog too much band width though.

Your Aye,


Garth Groff  




On Mon, May 18, 2020 at 10:17 AM mofwcaboose via groups.io <MOFWCABOOSE=AOL.COM@groups.io> wrote:
Some railroads  always identified the type of camp car on the side, some railroads identified them by prefixes  or suffixes in the number, and some did not bother at all,,,the C&O was in the latter group. No comprehensive roster of C&O equipment has ever surfaced, and the COHS has published some  booklets, but nothing really definitive. Thus identifying C&O camp car types is rather speculative. While it is safe to say that these cars are either tool or material cars, one cannot go further then that. The one with the bars behind the windows might be a tool car; the bars are to keep someone from breaking in and stealing the tools (as if anyone could fit through those windows!).

Nonrevenue equipment can be a valuable look at old rolling stock, provided information is available on their history. Again, some railroads were good in that regard, others not so much.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL



Re: C&O MW Photos

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Some railroads  always identified the type of camp car on the side, some railroads identified them by prefixes  or suffixes in the number, and some did not bother at all,,,the C&O was in the latter group. No comprehensive roster of C&O equipment has ever surfaced, and the COHS has published some  booklets, but nothing really definitive. Thus identifying C&O camp car types is rather speculative. While it is safe to say that these cars are either tool or material cars, one cannot go further then that. The one with the bars behind the windows might be a tool car; the bars are to keep someone from breaking in and stealing the tools (as if anyone could fit through those windows!).

Nonrevenue equipment can be a valuable look at old rolling stock, provided information is available on their history. Again, some railroads were good in that regard, others not so much.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL



Re: Speedwitch Media Status?

greg snook
 

I just received an order last week for decals.  It might depend on what he has, and where he is, but I would place an order with confidence and patience.
Cheers
Greg Snook


Re: Photo: Santa Fe Bx-3/Bx-6 Boxcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I'll have to look at that sign again! 😊

I asked what it was because it looked to me like a long train with the roof walks virtually continuous, but then I thought "Nah, that couldn't be, but what IS it?" once you have an incorrect reading of an image, it can be very difficult to get rid of it!

Thanks to those who got me off dead center on the interpretation of the image.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of ottokroutil via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2020 9:14 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Santa Fe Bx-3/Bx-6 Boxcar

The storage structure along the right side of the platform has a solid back and a roof. I have room for this platform on my layout and often wondered what kind of parts were stored on the shelves there and in the open. At the risk of moderator jail, I’d also like to point it the sign over the entrance to the worker subway: “Do not spit on floor, stairs, walls or THiS SIGN” (emphasis added)😜
Fun stuff, Otto

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