Date   

Re: "Z"-CAR FRAMING QUESTION

Kemal Mumcu
 

Bill, what adhesive do you use for this job?

Colin Meikle


Erie 21201-21298 covered hoppers

David
 

Series 21200-21299 were derivatives of the ACF 1958 cf covered hopper, built by Ralston in March 1949. See RPC #30, p.90.

David Thompson


Re: Southern Pulpwood cars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Garth,

I have considered sheet lead weights.  I use sheet lead flashing intended for roofing and vents.  It could be pounded or even rolled thinner and shaped to fit for weights.   Another idea is the powdered "Liquid Gravity" by Deluxe Materials, secured with epoxy in the cavities.  That is something I have used for my daughters' Diamond Derby cars (Girl Scout version of Pinewood Derby).

I wondered about using the sheet lead for the Hutchins or Murphy ends using a form, but lead is so soft.  I also thought about my friend who has a Mattel "toy" from the 60's that he uses as a vacuum-forming tool with two liter plastic bottle material heated and then vacuumed to shape over carved wood forms. He created perspex bubbles for his models of Vietnam era Loaches.  This would give an end product that is tough enough and yet show the indentations on both sides decently.  I'm just not sure I am capable of creating useful forms and he lives in VT and I now live in MD.  So it's one of those long term ideas that may never see the light of day.

Dave

Monday, May 25, 2020, 3:25:33 PM, you wrote:


Friends,

Has anyone considered putting a thin layer of plumber's lead between the underframe and the floor? This might mean sacrificing some underframe detail, but should be no problem for empty cars that are operated. Not every car needs to be museum quality.

I remember Richard Hendrickson's mantra for fishbelly gondolas and flat cars, "If you can't see it , don't bother modeling it."

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  閭

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...> wrote:

Allen,

To model the SU box cars converted has always been an interest/goal of mine  but as I dug into that the "ends" were always a stumble. Many of  those used the Hutchins end. I went so far as to 3D CAD a Hutchins end BECAUSE I too thought...hmmm add it to a flat.... used to be Westerfield sold HO ends for the SU but they were flat (inside.)

BUT the issue was the inside...especially  for an empty pulpwood rack car. Those Hutchins ends showed inside and out with an empty.

And since I model Murphy Branch circa 1942 consists with multiple cars would be typical and ideal. Luckily <g> I'm not modeling Canton so the need for a huge fleet of empties  and loaded  won't be necessary.  

I also remember (when pulpwood was shipped) and on at least once occasions watching a "stick" rock off a car. Not going to figure out how to model that. <g>  

And as Fenton stated in the article those empty models are  LIGHT.  


Gordon Andrews



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: "Z"-CAR FRAMING QUESTION

mel perry
 

here's another idea which popped up in
today's mailbox, courtesy of the "railwaybullshippers group", the article
is the m&stl stock car, not sure of the
strength of the joint

Article: Scratchbuilding M&StL Stock Cars

An article by Charles Swartz from the Chicago & North Western Historical Society Modeler, Volume #7, Issue #2:

http://anyflip.com/ning/ctgz

The article begins on Page 3 and has charts, a parts list and many photos.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

just passing it on

mel perry


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

gary laakso
 

Mont, thank you for all of your high quality modeling articles over a long time span that showed us that we could do it and you kept Mainline Modeler going and going!  I always appreciated your list of items needed for each model, allowing me to order the material not in one of my storage boxes! 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 12:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

 

This is correct.  The small U channel diagonals are the ones I prefer to remove or copy from the LL Proto model than build them up per the SS instructions.  

 

SS wants you to stand either .010 x .020 or .010 x .030 styrene strip stock on end and cement it to the car sides to form the U channels.  

 

You are correct that the stock car channels are too short.  You have to splice them or use them to make a longer master to cast what you need in resin.  

 

FYI, the MWR Mather boxcars hauled Ball Glass Manufacturing Co. blue glass canning jars made in Muncie, IN,  all over the country and photos verify the cars could be seen just about anywhere.  The Mather design cars served the MWR into the late 1950's when they were replaced with a fleet of singe sheathed composite cars rebuilt with steel sides.  

 

The steel cars had both 8 and 10 panel sides.  The steel cars were also yellow, but they did not paint the canning jar on the corrugated doors.  RMC has an article on these cars.

  

Mont Switzer      


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Chuck Cover [chuck.cover@...]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

Sorry group,

 

As often happens when I comment, I made a mistake.  I should have said that the verticals on the Sunshine Mather boxcar kits are Z bracing, NOT the diagonals.  I don’t believe that the P-2000 models have this Z bracing on the verticals.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: ACL O-17 Ventilation Box Car - "Watermelon Car"

Allen Cain
 

Hi Bill,

Saw your request for info on these cars.  Attached you will find several article which should be helpful.

Enjoy,

Allen Cain


Re: ACL O-17 Ventilation Box Car - "Watermelon Car"

Allen Cain
 

Attached is the article that Bruce referenced.

I have others if anyone is interested contact me OFF LIST please.

Allen Cain


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - more info

Todd Sullivan
 

And, according to Tony Koester, the cars were often used for back-hauls of sand for the factory. 

I spent a few weeks in Marion, IN in the early 2000s rehab'ing a house for Habitat for Missionaries, and found a closed Ball glass plant there.  I think it had been served by the NKP.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Plastics for injection molding model railroad items

Donald B. Valentine
 

Yes, both reground material from rejects and/or buying a poor quality material to begin with can both cause
the end product to be brittle.Many of us have been using the same material for some years with one of the 
larger injection molding firms buying it in bulk and adding the color. Ever wonder why so many after market
parts were a standard gray color? Now you know. I've been told for years to keep the percentasge of regrind 
to a maximum of 10% and have never experienced a problem when that was done. The worst example I've
experienced was a decade or more ago with Precisin Scale 4 wheel passenger car trucks of the drop
equalizer variety. They were impossible to assemble witout breakage. In that cast I suspect it was because 
most were being used as "lost plastic" masters for production of the trucks in brass. Realize here that a lot
more of the supposed "lost wax" castings we use are not lost wax but lost plastic due simply to the economies
of scale. When I introduced the first of our "Pullman Parts" line of injection molded items over thirty years ago 
the material used was Cosden #625 but Cosden sold out to Phillips Petroleum and that is where it comes from
now. One of my molding shops is still using that material while another, and much larger, molder is buying a
very similar material from another supplier ajnd I defy anyone to tell whicj s which.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Photo: Wings Being Loaded Into GTW Boxcar

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On May 25, 2020, at 09:45, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Wings Being Loaded Into GTW Boxcar

A photo from the New York Heritage Digital Collections:

https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p16694coll109/id/18222/rec/24

A circa 1943-1944 photo.
Razorback Jug parts! The image has suggestions of interesting details, especially in the lower left foreground.


Re: "Z"-CAR FRAMING QUESTION

Bill Welch
 

It might Mont, certainly would not hurt to try.

Bill Welch


Re: SHPX ORER help needed

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

OOPS!  That's what happens when my attention is focused elsewhere (in this case on replenishing the homestead's supplies of beer before the next round of the plague sets in, with a nice Belgian wit).

Obviously, LOs would be reweighed on a regular basis, but it does lead to an interesting question as to where. My guess (and it is strictly that) would be that the lessee or lessor would most likely contract with the home railroad for the lessee's loads, since it would seem silly to return the cars to the lessor for this issue. Although? They might well have as I would guess that the lessor would perform most of the maintenance on leased cars. And of course, the bottom line on car reweighing is that a car that was in need could easily be captured by a road looking to make some money...

It will be interesting to see what data surfaces.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Mumper <eric.mumper@...>
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 12:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SHPX ORER help needed
 
Bruce,

The original thread appears to have been lost since the post is from a while ago.  This is about SHPX covered hoppers.  These were reweighed regularly and I am interested if that was done at SHPX shops or by the railroads wherever and whenever they needed it.

Eric Mumper


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

Mont Switzer
 

This is correct.  The small U channel diagonals are the ones I prefer to remove or copy from the LL Proto model than build them up per the SS instructions.  

SS wants you to stand either .010 x .020 or .010 x .030 styrene strip stock on end and cement it to the car sides to form the U channels.  

You are correct that the stock car channels are too short.  You have to splice them or use them to make a longer master to cast what you need in resin.  

FYI, the MWR Mather boxcars hauled Ball Glass Manufacturing Co. blue glass canning jars made in Muncie, IN,  all over the country and photos verify the cars could be seen just about anywhere.  The Mather design cars served the MWR into the late 1950's when they were replaced with a fleet of singe sheathed composite cars rebuilt with steel sides.  

The steel cars had both 8 and 10 panel sides.  The steel cars were also yellow, but they did not paint the canning jar on the corrugated doors.  RMC has an article on these cars.
  
Mont Switzer      


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Chuck Cover [chuck.cover@...]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

Sorry group,

 

As often happens when I comment, I made a mistake.  I should have said that the verticals on the Sunshine Mather boxcar kits are Z bracing, NOT the diagonals.  I don’t believe that the P-2000 models have this Z bracing on the verticals.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: "Z"-CAR FRAMING QUESTION

Mont Switzer
 

Bill,

Would it help to glue the .020 x .020 stock to the .005 styrene sheet?  Then cut the 3 inch side strips?  Might make it all easier to handle.  

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Bill Welch [fgexbill@...]
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] "Z"-CAR FRAMING QUESTION

This is what I have done:

Cut 0.005" styrene sheet into strips scale 3" wide. This is the base that is glued (carefully too much will distort this thin styrene) and let it cure over night. 

Next carefully glue 0.020" x 0.020" strip to the 0.005" and let it cure overnight

Next glue 0.010" x 0.030 strip to complete the "Z"

Bill Welch


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help

John Stanford
 

Thanks Todd and Mont - I wasn't aware of the Life Like models so have some new options to look into.  So much to catch up on!

Also thanks to Andy, Claud & Al for the on and off-list prototype references - certainly have enough now to tackle the project once I decide which way to go.  I was up for the challenge of the Sunshine kit but I'm not looking for work just for the sake of work so need to re-evaluate now.

John Stanford


Re: ACL O-17 Ventilation Box Car - "Watermelon Car"

mel perry
 

OOPS:
my bad
;-(
mel perry

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 12:01 PM mel perry via groups.io <clipper841=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
or check epay or railtoadtreasures.com
:-)
mel perry

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 11:20 AM Bruce A. Metcalf <bruce.metcalf@...> wrote:
wrlyders via groups.io wrote:

> I am trying to scratch build the ACL Watermelon Car starting with an
>  Ambroid Kit from the 50s [One of my Cars for my NMRA AP Cars
> certificate].

> I need pictures or drawings or parts lists showing these items in
> order to scratchbuild or purchase these parts.

> Does anybody have any links or information that I can use?

There's an article with prototype photos and a scale drawing in Railroad
Model Craftsman, July 1955, p.48.

Not in my collection, but perhaps  someone here can help. Failing that,
the NMRA Collection at the California State Railroad Museum Library has
copies.

Cheers,
/ Bruce /




Re: Southern Pulpwood cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Has anyone considered putting a thin layer of plumber's lead between the underframe and the floor? This might mean sacrificing some underframe detail, but should be no problem for empty cars that are operated. Not every car needs to be museum quality.

I remember Richard Hendrickson's mantra for fishbelly gondolas and flat cars, "If you can't see it , don't bother modeling it."

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...> wrote:
Allen,

To model the SU box cars converted has always been an interest/goal of mine  but as I dug into that the "ends" were always a stumble. Many of  those used the Hutchins end. I went so far as to 3D CAD a Hutchins end BECAUSE I too thought...hmmm add it to a flat.... used to be Westerfield sold HO ends for the SU but they were flat (inside.)

BUT the issue was the inside...especially  for an empty pulpwood rack car. Those Hutchins ends showed inside and out with an empty.

And since I model Murphy Branch circa 1942 consists with multiple cars would be typical and ideal. Luckily <g> I'm not modeling Canton so the need for a huge fleet of empties  and loaded  won't be necessary. 

I also remember (when pulpwood was shipped) and on at least once occasions watching a "stick" rock off a car. Not going to figure out how to model that. <g> 

And as Fenton stated in the article those empty models are  LIGHT. 


Gordon Andrews


help locating online sratchbuilding supplies

Ray Hutchison
 

This has been hit or miss on ebay, and difficult to get things from local hobby shop.  I am looking for a good source for both wood and styrene car roofs, sides, ends, and bottom frames.  Suggestions much appreciated!

Ray Hutchison, Green Bay WI


Re: MWR 1201-1275 series Mather Patent Boxcar help - correction, sorry

Chuck Cover
 

Sorry group,

 

As often happens when I comment, I made a mistake.  I should have said that the verticals on the Sunshine Mather boxcar kits are Z bracing, NOT the diagonals.  I don’t believe that the P-2000 models have this Z bracing on the verticals.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Southern Pacific GS Gondola Question

Bill Welch
 

Okay, here is my plan:

—Measure the interior width with Digital Caliper
—Take the measure to Home Depot and ask them to cut a scrap of wood to that width to fit into the body cavity to prevent the styrene from flexing
—Sand the glued cracks with #600 sandpaper
—brush on "Future/Pledge whatever they are calling it this week"
—apply clear decal material
—Prime. paint, decal and move on. . .

Bill Welch