Date   

Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

Yes, Plano (and other etched stainless steel parts) are usually .010" while the correct thickness is .023".

When DA "flat wire" was available I would use CA to bond a piece of the flat wire to the bottom edge
to approximate the 2 inch thickness of the prototype (as seen from the side). This also stiffens it. It can be
done with styrene as well but without as much stiffness. The Tichy material is good but the size of the
grid is larger than the prototype. I haven't looked at Tangent's open grid materials with the idea of using
them instead, but maybe that's a possibility as well?


On 5/31/2020 2:17 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

I did one back in about 2007, but using pieces of Tichy plastic running boards, rather than Plano.  The Plano always looks too thin and wavy for my taste/capabilities.  Here is a picture from the time

 

 

And the completed model

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

I have to admit whenever I see a comment like ". . . it's pretty much an exact match to the Red Caboose model if you replace the running boards with open-grid steel. Plano makes an etched metal set for the model." tossed out I laugh to myself and also wench. I have two RC kids and two of the Plano etched running boards. They are on a shelf at eye level I walk by too many time a day to count and occasionally I will pause, open one of the RC boxes and look at the frame with the molded on running board for a few moments, say to myself "Not today" and put it back on the shelf. I just did it again just now. This is not minot model surgery in my opinion. I would love to know it anyone has ever done this surgery and would love even more to see their results.

Bill Welch


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I did one back in about 2007, but using pieces of Tichy plastic running boards, rather than Plano.  The Plano always looks too thin and wavy for my taste/capabilities.  Here is a picture from the time

 

 

And the completed model

 

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 1:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

I have to admit whenever I see a comment like ". . . it's pretty much an exact match to the Red Caboose model if you replace the running boards with open-grid steel. Plano makes an etched metal set for the model." tossed out I laugh to myself and also wench. I have two RC kids and two of the Plano etched running boards. They are on a shelf at eye level I walk by too many time a day to count and occasionally I will pause, open one of the RC boxes and look at the frame with the molded on running board for a few moments, say to myself "Not today" and put it back on the shelf. I just did it again just now. This is not minot model surgery in my opinion. I would love to know it anyone has ever done this surgery and would love even more to see their results.

Bill Welch


Re: ATSF Mineral Brown

Bob Chaparro
 

On another group Bill Jolitz commented, "...I have a drift card sample of PFE roof red.  It matches NONE of the reefers ever produced over the years."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 


Bill just save the bolster/saddle and center sill and scratch build the rest of the frame. :-D
Once you start to remove the cast running boards, that's all you'll be left with. :-)
Surely not difficult for someone with your skills.

I did use Plano parts for the old Roundhouse modern tank car - which lacks a stub sill
entirely! But it was possible to scratch a replacement from Evergreen styrene parts.



On 5/31/2020 1:59 PM, Bill Welch wrote:

I have to admit whenever I see a comment like ". . . it's pretty much an exact match to the Red Caboose model if you replace the running boards with open-grid steel. Plano makes an etched metal set for the model." tossed out I laugh to myself and also wench. I have two RC kids and two of the Plano etched running boards. They are on a shelf at eye level I walk by too many time a day to count and occasionally I will pause, open one of the RC boxes and look at the frame with the molded on running board for a few moments, say to myself "Not today" and put it back on the shelf. I just did it again just now. This is not minot model surgery in my opinion. I would love to know it anyone has ever done this surgery and would love even more to see their results.

Bill Welch

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Bill Welch
 

I have to admit whenever I see a comment like ". . . it's pretty much an exact match to the Red Caboose model if you replace the running boards with open-grid steel. Plano makes an etched metal set for the model." tossed out I laugh to myself and also wench. I have two RC kids and two of the Plano etched running boards. They are on a shelf at eye level I walk by too many time a day to count and occasionally I will pause, open one of the RC boxes and look at the frame with the molded on running board for a few moments, say to myself "Not today" and put it back on the shelf. I just did it again just now. This is not minot model surgery in my opinion. I would love to know it anyone has ever done this surgery and would love even more to see their results.

Bill Welch


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

In 1920, UTLX purchased 1000 tank cars from General American to the GATC 1917 design, which is the Tangent car.  Originally, these cars were numbered 70000 – 70999 as the beginning of the 7xxxx series of car numbers representing the Class Z (non UTLX design) cars.  Fairly soon the cars were renumbered to 71000 and above to allow the 70xxx series to be used for 10000 gallon cars.  Other commercially built cars from Standard Tank Car Company and Pennsylvania Tank Car Company were also inserted in 7xxxx series.  From the late 1920’s through the 1930’s (and beyond) both UTLX and GATC acquired the fleets of smaller oil tank cars and assimilated them into their fleets.  For UTLX this included cars built by both ACF and GATC into the 7xxxx and other series, based on capacity and internal heaters, etc.

 

I hope that this is helpful.  There is a much more in the UTLX book published by Speedwitch, including lots of photographs!.  (Shameless plug.)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Hemphill via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 11:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

Steve Hile:  I apologize for my ignorance about tank cars. I'm not following where the recently re-released Tangent GATC car fits in the summary UTLX roster you posted above. Could you advise, please.

Mark Hemphill


Re: CB&Q XM-30 boxcar

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

Some photos of the CB&Q XM-30 boxcar have a placard on the door with Burlington Route.  Does this have a black background or car color background?  Thanks

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: What is This Tank Body?

Tim O'Connor
 


It's an early tank car body - reminds me of very early "common standard" tank cars and also some Santa Fe
tank cars. I've attached Tom Madden's ATSF Tk-G-5 resin tank model for comparison.



On 5/31/2020 5:04 AM, Fred Jansz wrote:

Here's a more detailed pic of the car/tank in question
Fred Jansz
_._,_._,_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Photos: NP Boxcars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: NP Boxcars

A circa 1915 photo from the Washington State Historical Society:

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/imu/api/file/1914

Description:

"View of the Sperry Flour Company mill in Tacoma, WA on the shoreline of Commencement Bay. Two water towers are on top of the building. Railroad tracks run between the bay and the building. Three railroad cars are on the track, with designation: Northern Pacific."

Another circa 1915 photo:

http://www.washingtonhistory.org/imu/api/file/1917

Description:

" View of Tacoma Grain Company's flour mill and warehouse on the shore of Commencement Bay in Tacoma, WA. Bay water is in lower right corner. Several railroad cars are on tracks between the buildings and the water, with sign on sides: Northern Pacific."

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth

I don't know about any lamentations... but it's pretty much an exact match to the Red Caboose model
if you replace the running boards with open-grid steel. Plano makes an etched metal set for the model.

The US Army (DOD) and UTLX were the largest buyers for the cars represented by the model. Perhaps
people lament inaccurate paint schemes, but then they'd be lamenting most of what is out there in hobbyland.

I think Red Caboose offered both Army and UTLX paint schemes. I know I sent pictures to Bill.



On 5/31/2020 5:54 AM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Steve, 

Nice list, but you forgot that UTLX bought 500 welded ACF 10K cars in 1951, their series 39000-39499. Richard Hendrickson
identified the often-lamented Red Caboose model as a suitable representation of these cars.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Mark Hemphill
 

Steve Hile:  I apologize for my ignorance about tank cars. I'm not following where the recently re-released Tangent GATC car fits in the summary UTLX roster you posted above. Could you advise, please.

Mark Hemphill


Video: Steam Was Great On The Nickel Plate

Bob Chaparro
 

Video: Steam Was Great On The Nickel Plate

Courtesy of the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, here is a ten minute video from 1958:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITq8_EuOHxw

This is only a fair quality video consisting mainly of run buy sequences.

There is a lot of reefer action with both produce reefers (mostly PFE & SFRD) and meat reefers (mainly Oscar Meyer, Armour, Hormel & Swift)  in abundance.

At 5:43 is a fuzzy image of a "butter dish" design car, possibly a milk or chemical car.

Otherwise, their are a lot of boxcars whizzing by.

I'm unaware of how much the Nickel Plate relied on steam power at that point in time when so many railroads had completely dieselized, but it would have been odd for that railroad to have needed marginal members of its locomotive fleet in 1958, a year of a very deep recession.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet.


Re: Evangeline Railway

Paul Doggett
 

Alex 

Unfortunately he died on Penn station, a sad lose to his family obviously but also a sad loss to preservation the scrappers got som good locomotives.

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 31 May 2020, at 16:50, Alex Huff <dsrc512@...> wrote:

Mr. Paulsen Spence.  Search Railway Preservation News, then search The (Once) Paulsen Spence Collection.  The final entry is my post dated 2013.  I recall what I was told by Mr. Spence's last Master Mechanic as to why Mr. Spence acquired the locomotives he did and how close he came to accomplishing what he set out to do.
Alex Huff     


Re: Evangeline Railway

Alex Huff
 

Mr. Paulsen Spence.  Search Railway Preservation News, then search The (Once) Paulsen Spence Collection.  The final entry is my post dated 2013.  I recall what I was told by Mr. Spence's last Master Mechanic as to why Mr. Spence acquired the locomotives he did and how close he came to accomplishing what he set out to do.
Alex Huff     


Re: Vallejo Paints for Steam Era Freight Cars

William Hirt
 

For those who still would like to use Floquil and Polly Scale, I found that Narrow Gauge Modeling Company sells unopened bottles. I recently purchased several bottles from them and they were in new unopened condition.

Here is the link for Floquil:

http://www.narrowgaugemodeling.com/floquil-paint/

Here is the link for Polly Scale:

http://www.narrowgaugemodeling.com/polly-scale-paint/

Bill Hirt

On 5/30/2020 11:23 PM, Bruce Griffin wrote:

Brian,

The link to the MRH Guide is https://www.testors.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/Testors/ebook/MRH-Acrylic-painting-guide-post-Floquil-Portrait.ashx

My original post was 
https://realstmfc.groups.io/g/main/message/161417
but the photos do not appear to be attached so I will add new ones here. My recent blog is linked in my signature. There are new colors added and you can see it is nice to have a sample of discontinued products on a card nearby to compare to and decide what matches. As a good researcher my aim is to provide information in the best way possible, explicitly point out the limitations of the information (photographed with 5000k bulbs), and let you decide. I will offer conclusions but ultimately you decide what works.  

For example, to me Vallejo Red Leather is similar and maybe a little light to match PollyScale Zinc Chromate Primer, which I have used on several post war B&O boxcars. I will do some experimenting to see what I think might work. 

Best Regards,
Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Drat.  Should be ACF Type 27 not 29.  Sorry.

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:32 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

Garth is correct, I did overlook a couple of line items, which I will add below in Red.

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 4:55 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

Steve, 

 

Nice list, but you forgot that UTLX bought 500 welded ACF 10K cars in 1951, their series 39000-39499. Richard Hendrickson identified the often-lamented Red Caboose model as a suitable representation of these cars.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 10:01 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

I suspect that I have done this exercise a time or two before.  There is much more detail in the UTLX book.  Personally, I am drawn to model 1952, so it is good to have both the UTLX record and the 1955 Tank Car Tariff to make comparisons.

 

In round numbers in 1952, UTLX rostered about 41,000 tank cars.  The listings below account for about 38,000 of those and don’t include very small, very large or multi-compartment cars.

12,000 gallon Class X-3                    620 

12,000 gallon Class X-3W                500

10,000 gallon Class X-3                   10,561

10,000 gallon Class X-3W                500

8000 gallon Class X-3                       1923

6500 gallon Class X-3                       3838

10,000 gallon Class X                          972

8000 gallon Class X                           3156

6,500 gallon Class X                            605

10,000 gallon Class X-4                     493

11,000 gallon Class X-5-300           5302

11,000 gallon Class X-5-400             391                       Total UTLX design cars   28,861 cars

10,000 gallon Class Z                        3431

8000 gallon Class Z                           6761

11,000 gallon Class Z-5-300             382                       Total non-UTLX design cars          10,574 cars          Total      39485 cars

 

The only HO models of the UTLX design cars were/are the resin kits from Sunshine Models and, more recently, from Resin Car Works.  The Red Caboose 10,000 gallon welded tank car is quite close to the UTLX X-3W design.

 

UTLX purchased, new, at least 1000 of the 8000 gallon GATC designed cars (the Tangent car) and certainly acquired others of these through second hand purchases in the 1930’s.  They also purchased, new, some from Standard Tank Car Company, both 8000 and 10,000 gallon cars.  (Southern Car and Foundry underframe, but need horizontally riveted tanks.)

 

Second hand 8000 and 10,000 gallon ACF tank cars (the P2k Type 21 models) were also added to the fleet during the 1930’s.  There were almost no ACF Type 27 tank cars (the Intermountain cars) among the second hand purchases by UTLX.

 

Mostly in the rush to expand the roster of high pressure tank cars following WWII, UTLX also purchased ACF designed Z-5-300’s, like the Kadee car.

 

Steve Hile

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of pennsylvania1954
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

From all of Elden's research here in the archives, wouldn't GATX be more common than UTLX on these General American cars? I have more UTLX than I should, thanks to the P2K offerings, and not enough GATX which was the largest fleet circa my 1953. I have GATX decals coming from Black Cat.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Garth is correct, I did overlook a couple of line items, which I will add below in Red.

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 4:55 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

Steve, 

 

Nice list, but you forgot that UTLX bought 500 welded ACF 10K cars in 1951, their series 39000-39499. Richard Hendrickson identified the often-lamented Red Caboose model as a suitable representation of these cars.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 10:01 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

I suspect that I have done this exercise a time or two before.  There is much more detail in the UTLX book.  Personally, I am drawn to model 1952, so it is good to have both the UTLX record and the 1955 Tank Car Tariff to make comparisons.

 

In round numbers in 1952, UTLX rostered about 41,000 tank cars.  The listings below account for about 38,000 of those and don’t include very small, very large or multi-compartment cars.

12,000 gallon Class X-3                    620 

12,000 gallon Class X-3W                500

10,000 gallon Class X-3                   10,561

10,000 gallon Class X-3W                500

8000 gallon Class X-3                       1923

6500 gallon Class X-3                       3838

10,000 gallon Class X                          972

8000 gallon Class X                           3156

6,500 gallon Class X                            605

10,000 gallon Class X-4                     493

11,000 gallon Class X-5-300           5302

11,000 gallon Class X-5-400             391                       Total UTLX design cars   28,861 cars

10,000 gallon Class Z                        3431

8000 gallon Class Z                           6761

11,000 gallon Class Z-5-300             382                       Total non-UTLX design cars          10,574 cars          Total      39485 cars

 

The only HO models of the UTLX design cars were/are the resin kits from Sunshine Models and, more recently, from Resin Car Works.  The Red Caboose 10,000 gallon welded tank car is quite close to the UTLX X-3W design.

 

UTLX purchased, new, at least 1000 of the 8000 gallon GATC designed cars (the Tangent car) and certainly acquired others of these through second hand purchases in the 1930’s.  They also purchased, new, some from Standard Tank Car Company, both 8000 and 10,000 gallon cars.  (Southern Car and Foundry underframe, but need horizontally riveted tanks.)

 

Second hand 8000 and 10,000 gallon ACF tank cars (the P2k Type 21 models) were also added to the fleet during the 1930’s.  There were almost no ACF Type 29 tank cars (the Intermountain cars) among the second hand purchases by UTLX.

 

Mostly in the rush to expand the roster of high pressure tank cars following WWII, UTLX also purchased ACF designed Z-5-300’s, like the Kadee car.

 

Steve Hile

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of pennsylvania1954
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 5:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tangent GATC 8,000 Gallon 1917-Design Radial Course Tank Car

 

From all of Elden's research here in the archives, wouldn't GATX be more common than UTLX on these General American cars? I have more UTLX than I should, thanks to the P2K offerings, and not enough GATX which was the largest fleet circa my 1953. I have GATX decals coming from Black Cat.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: K4 Decals

James Brewer
 

K4 is and Ebay Store...here is the link  https://www.ebay.com/str/k4supplycompany?rt=nc&_oac=1

Lots of decals.

Jim Brewer

On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 9:53 AM Dave Boss <daveboss1976@...> wrote:
Hi Guys
            Yes I've used my first set of K4 decals. I found them to be very good. They are just as thin as Microscale and they went on easily for me. They can be a little tricky since they are so thin. I didn't have to spray any decal enhancer on them. I just applied them right off the sheet. Here is some photos of a car I finished with K4 decals.

Good Day
Dave

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:14 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
John I probably did.  Thanks

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:26 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fenton,

So... opaque is good... perhaps you mean transparent? 😉

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] K4 Decals
 
I've bought them but not used them yet.  When I asked the same question the answers I received was that the white is a bit opaque.
Fenton

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 3:13 PM John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with decals by K4 Decals ?

https://k4decals.com/

John Riddell



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Opaque

O Fenton Wells
 

Sometimes my brain gets that way
Fenton

--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: K4 Decals

Dave Boss
 

Hi Guys
            Yes I've used my first set of K4 decals. I found them to be very good. They are just as thin as Microscale and they went on easily for me. They can be a little tricky since they are so thin. I didn't have to spray any decal enhancer on them. I just applied them right off the sheet. Here is some photos of a car I finished with K4 decals.

Good Day
Dave

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 7:14 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
John I probably did.  Thanks

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 5:26 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fenton,

So... opaque is good... perhaps you mean transparent? 😉

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] K4 Decals
 
I've bought them but not used them yet.  When I asked the same question the answers I received was that the white is a bit opaque.
Fenton

On Sat, May 30, 2020 at 3:13 PM John Riddell <riddellj@...> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with decals by K4 Decals ?

https://k4decals.com/

John Riddell



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

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