Date   

Re: QUESTION ON RUNNIBNG BOARD END SUPPORTS

Rich Gibson
 

Here’s one I just took at the CO RR Museum. One bolt on each leg at bottom; six bolts across the top.
Rich Gibson
Golden, CO


Re: Help locating decals for GATX 1948+ Leased Tank Car

Daniel Kohlberg
 

Just a heads up:  Dan Kohlberg makes several HO GATX Tank Car Decal Sets, all silk screened, all aimed specifically at Tangent tank cars.

 

GA-21 GATX 8000 Gallon Acid Tank Cars 1949+ (3 Cars) 8.00        

GA-22 GATX 6000 Gallon 3 Compartment Tank Cars 1941+ (3 Cars) 10.00

GA-29 GATX 8000 Gallon Welded General Service Tank Cars 1948-1960s+ (2 Cars) 8.00

GA-30 GATX 8000 Gallon Welded General Service Tank Cars 1960s-1970s+ (2 Cars) 8.00

 

Website is here:

http://www.icgdecals.com/

 

Thanks,

Dan Kohlberg :)

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2020 12:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help locating decals for GATX 1948+ Leased Tank Car

 

I think Black Cat is good, excellent decals or try eBay for the old Champ sets

 

On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:49 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:

First, I may have duplicated this post and I apologize if I did.

Looking for HO scale decals to apply to an undecorated Tangent tank car as shown in the attached photo. Searched with no success so hoping someone can point me in the right direction please. 

Allen Cain


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

 


Re: Paint Booth

Nelson Moyer
 

Why not just look up the flash point of the solvents your concerned about?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Booth

 

Bruce,

I see you said "...we did the math."  I did some searching in the messages for something like that, but didn't find it.  Could you please supply a message number or a search term that would bring it up?  I would like to peruse it.

I fondly recall making a flame thrower out of a spray can of lacquer paint and a lighter.  BIG fun!  I do not think the lacquer ever reached its flash point.  Not an explosion, but it WAS a fire--NOT something I would want in my spray booth.  For that matter, flour doesn't have a flash point at all, and flour explosions have been horrendous.   I think the possibility of a fire based on atomization (as comes out of an air brush) might be another risk to consider.  And avoid.


Besides your mention of an "electrical short", I see that you did not mention another possibility for starting a fire with an electric motor:  sparking of the brushes (if brushes are present).  Many model railroaders are old enough to remember open frame motors and the visual of sparking at the commutator as the motor ran.  They might very well extrapolate this event to the motor in their spray booth.  That is why I mentioned the unlikelihood of this problem with the motors that they would likely be using.

Also, while a short is a one time arc before the circuit breaker trips from the overload, the arcing of motor brushes (if there are any) is continuous.  So we would have a near-continuous source of ignition, instead of a one-time source.

Like you, I have been using various off-the-shelf vent fans in my spray booths.  I built my first in 1980.  It had a sweet dual squirrel cage arrangement.  Wow, 40 years, now.  I am not at all concerned about fire or explosion in my paint booth.  There are no sparks.  There is no open flame.  And, if I want to light a candle for my sainted mother, I will do it far away from my spray booth.


Ed

Edward Sutorik










On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 06:53 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Marty,

Notice that I said VOLATIZE THE ENTIRE CONTENTS? You can't do that by knocking it over or leaving the cap off. It is still perfectly safe. I mean really guys, we did the math. Even directly volatilizing straight thinner or airbrush cleaner into a paint booth WILL NOT EXPLODE.

Now, I wouldn't POUR thinner onto the fan motor, but then it would be the electrical short that started the fire anyway. So you might want to make sure that your motor is above the level of the base of the booth. Which, by default, it ought to be because if your opening is the size of the motor, you're not going to move air properly.

So really, rather than speculate, go back in the archives and read the MULTIPLE discussions on this.

Here's a quick science lesson. I could. say, "hey, I've been using bathroom fans for nearly 20 years without a problem" but that is what we call "anecdotal evidence". As scientist who is VERY safety conscious, I can assure you that rather than do that, I and several other list members, investigated the flash points of all of the chemicals used, and then calculated their concentrations when volatilized. I airbrush quite safely using my homebuilt box with bathroom fans, that cost me a total of $50, built probably close to 20 years ago, not because it hasn't blown up yet, but because I KNOW that it will not. And all the while laughing at folks getting suckered into buying $200 fans...

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Re: Help locating decals for GATX 1948+ Leased Tank Car

Bill Welch
 

Black Cat: https://www.blackcatdecals.com/

and 

Dan Kolhberg" http://www.icgdecals.com/

Bill Welch


Re: Help locating decals for GATX 1948+ Leased Tank Car

O Fenton Wells
 

I think Black Cat is good, excellent decals or try eBay for the old Champ sets


On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 12:49 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
First, I may have duplicated this post and I apologize if I did.

Looking for HO scale decals to apply to an undecorated Tangent tank car as shown in the attached photo. Searched with no success so hoping someone can point me in the right direction please. 

Allen Cain



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Paint Booth

gastro42000 <martincooper@...>
 

On June 7, 2020 at 9:53 AM Bruce Smith <@smithbf> wrote:
hi: I use the paint booth to protect my lungs. I also use a mask. I am a klutz. My father was skilled at almost anything. I have one son who is skilled. I would not bet anything on anything I would build. So I bought one. Marty Cooper

Marty,

Notice that I said VOLATIZE THE ENTIRE CONTENTS? You can't do that by knocking it over or leaving the cap off. It is still perfectly safe. I mean really guys, we did the math. Even directly volatilizing straight thinner or airbrush cleaner into a paint booth WILL NOT EXPLODE.

Now, I wouldn't POUR thinner onto the fan motor, but then it would be the electrical short that started the fire anyway. So you might want to make sure that your motor is above the level of the base of the booth. Which, by default, it ought to be because if your opening is the size of the motor, you're not going to move air properly.

So really, rather than speculate, go back in the archives and read the MULTIPLE discussions on this.

Here's a quick science lesson. I could. say, "hey, I've been using bathroom fans for nearly 20 years without a problem" but that is what we call "anecdotal evidence". As scientist who is VERY safety conscious, I can assure you that rather than do that, I and several other list members, investigated the flash points of all of the chemicals used, and then calculated their concentrations when volatilized. I airbrush quite safely using my homebuilt box with bathroom fans, that cost me a total of $50, built probably close to 20 years ago, not because it hasn't blown up yet, but because I KNOW that it will not. And all the while laughing at folks getting suckered into buying $200 fans...

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al



Re: Paint Booth

spsalso
 

Bruce,

I see you said "...we did the math."  I did some searching in the messages for something like that, but didn't find it.  Could you please supply a message number or a search term that would bring it up?  I would like to peruse it.

I fondly recall making a flame thrower out of a spray can of lacquer paint and a lighter.  BIG fun!  I do not think the lacquer ever reached its flash point.  Not an explosion, but it WAS a fire--NOT something I would want in my spray booth.  For that matter, flour doesn't have a flash point at all, and flour explosions have been horrendous.   I think the possibility of a fire based on atomization (as comes out of an air brush) might be another risk to consider.  And avoid.


Besides your mention of an "electrical short", I see that you did not mention another possibility for starting a fire with an electric motor:  sparking of the brushes (if brushes are present).  Many model railroaders are old enough to remember open frame motors and the visual of sparking at the commutator as the motor ran.  They might very well extrapolate this event to the motor in their spray booth.  That is why I mentioned the unlikelihood of this problem with the motors that they would likely be using.

Also, while a short is a one time arc before the circuit breaker trips from the overload, the arcing of motor brushes (if there are any) is continuous.  So we would have a near-continuous source of ignition, instead of a one-time source.

Like you, I have been using various off-the-shelf vent fans in my spray booths.  I built my first in 1980.  It had a sweet dual squirrel cage arrangement.  Wow, 40 years, now.  I am not at all concerned about fire or explosion in my paint booth.  There are no sparks.  There is no open flame.  And, if I want to light a candle for my sainted mother, I will do it far away from my spray booth.


Ed

Edward Sutorik










On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 06:53 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Marty,

Notice that I said VOLATIZE THE ENTIRE CONTENTS? You can't do that by knocking it over or leaving the cap off. It is still perfectly safe. I mean really guys, we did the math. Even directly volatilizing straight thinner or airbrush cleaner into a paint booth WILL NOT EXPLODE.

Now, I wouldn't POUR thinner onto the fan motor, but then it would be the electrical short that started the fire anyway. So you might want to make sure that your motor is above the level of the base of the booth. Which, by default, it ought to be because if your opening is the size of the motor, you're not going to move air properly.

So really, rather than speculate, go back in the archives and read the MULTIPLE discussions on this.

Here's a quick science lesson. I could. say, "hey, I've been using bathroom fans for nearly 20 years without a problem" but that is what we call "anecdotal evidence". As scientist who is VERY safety conscious, I can assure you that rather than do that, I and several other list members, investigated the flash points of all of the chemicals used, and then calculated their concentrations when volatilized. I airbrush quite safely using my homebuilt box with bathroom fans, that cost me a total of $50, built probably close to 20 years ago, not because it hasn't blown up yet, but because I KNOW that it will not. And all the while laughing at folks getting suckered into buying $200 fans...

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


Help locating decals for GATX 1948+ Leased Tank Car

Allen Cain
 

First, I may have duplicated this post and I apologize if I did.

Looking for HO scale decals to apply to an undecorated Tangent tank car as shown in the attached photo. Searched with no success so hoping someone can point me in the right direction please. 

Allen Cain


Photos: Maryland & Pennsylvania Railroad Freight Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Maryland & Pennsylvania Railroad Freight Cars

Photos courtesy of the Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad Historical Society.

I've grouped these photo links instead of making a post for each individual photo because there is not much information to accompany each photo.

The available information is on this link:

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/freight.html

There are a lot of non-photo listings on this link so do a "Find" search by car number to locate what little information is available for specific cars.

There are a few more photos on the website but the quality is very poor.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

M&P Gondola 601:

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/gondola601.jpg

M&P Boxcars:

510

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box510.jpg

701

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box701.jpg

708

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box708-1.jpg

709

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box709.jpg

712

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box712.jpg

714

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box714.jpg

723

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box723.jpg

727

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box727.jpg

729

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box729.jpg

1000

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1000.jpg

1014

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1014.jpg

1020

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1020.jpg

1100

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1100.jpg

1103

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1103.jpg

1151

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1151.jpg

1152

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1152.jpg

1155

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1155.jpg

1156

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1156.jpg


Photo: M&P Boxcar 1100

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: M&P Boxcar 1100

Photo courtesy of the Maryland and Pennsylvania Railroad Historical Society:

http://www.maparailroadhist.org/histimg/box1100.jpg

Looks like Russia is getting some Black & Decker tools. I wonder if the Russians were talked into buying the extended warranties?

The 1100 series cars were built by the Baltimore Car and Foundry Co. in 1913 at a cost of $1,234.30 each and had a capacity of 40 tons.

These cars had new steel ends applied in 1928 and 1929 and were equipped with steel side frame trucks in 1936 and 1937.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Paint Booth

Bruce Smith
 

Marty,

Notice that I said VOLATIZE THE ENTIRE CONTENTS? You can't do that by knocking it over or leaving the cap off. It is still perfectly safe. I mean really guys, we did the math. Even directly volatilizing straight thinner or airbrush cleaner into a paint booth WILL NOT EXPLODE.

Now, I wouldn't POUR thinner onto the fan motor, but then it would be the electrical short that started the fire anyway. So you might want to make sure that your motor is above the level of the base of the booth. Which, by default, it ought to be because if your opening is the size of the motor, you're not going to move air properly.

So really, rather than speculate, go back in the archives and read the MULTIPLE discussions on this.

Here's a quick science lesson. I could. say, "hey, I've been using bathroom fans for nearly 20 years without a problem" but that is what we call "anecdotal evidence". As scientist who is VERY safety conscious, I can assure you that rather than do that, I and several other list members, investigated the flash points of all of the chemicals used, and then calculated their concentrations when volatilized. I airbrush quite safely using my homebuilt box with bathroom fans, that cost me a total of $50, built probably close to 20 years ago, not because it hasn't blown up yet, but because I KNOW that it will not. And all the while laughing at folks getting suckered into buying $200 fans...

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


YMW update

Pierre Oliver
 

http://elgincarshops.blogspot.com/2020/06/and-here-we-are.html

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


Re: Paint Booth

Benjamin Hom
 

Marty Cooper wrote:
"Any one who has been a model railroader for only a short time will have knocked over a 2 ounce bottle or left the cap off the pint bottle of solvent. Plan for the worst, hope for the best."

True, but that would have to be real volatile paint to reach the Lower Explosive Limit.  Planning for the worst is a lot easier with possession of knowledge.


Ben Hom


Railway Prototype Cyclopedia needed

gtws00
 

Does anyone have a spare or unneeded copy of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 21 and or Volume 26 they are willing to sell. 
Also interested in Vol 23&24. If you do please contact me off list at gtws00 at yahoo dot com
George Toman


C&O Open MW Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Here are all five photos I have of C&O open MW cars. All were taken in the 1980s, and I think two were idler/tender cars for Burro cranes. All three cars were rebuilt from flat cars with added gondola superstructures.

912267 appears to be a 42' car (12 stake pockets) rebuilt as a gondola from series 80300-80399, 1929 cars built by and inherited from the Hocking Valley. Shaver says many of these cars were converted to MW service in the middle to late 1940s. This car could also have come from the similar PM series 16000-16099 which came to the C&O in 1947 as 216000-216099. The Red Caboose (now IM) model is a close match. This was photographed at Charlottesville from the old downtown depot platform before the station was sold off to become offices and the platform was enclosed. 

912375 is also a 42' car. The eyes and cables on the shack's roof suggest anchor points for a Burro crane's hook. This car was photographed in Scottsville, Virginia, though I don't remember a Burro crane being around at that time. Possibly it was being held with other MW cars I saw there that were awaiting scrapping. That's my Toyota pick-up in the distance, well loved, but troublesome (it blew out several head gaskets when I could least afford to have it fixed).

940068 is a 52/53' car, apparently built from a welded flat. I have no information about welded flat cars on the C&O. This one is definitely a Burro crane tender. Note the extra step and handrails. This was photographed in the Charlottesville yard east of the old C&O depot.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  


Re: Paint Booth

gastro42000 <martincooper@...>
 

Hi: any one who has been a model railroader for only a short time will have knocked over a 2 ounce bottle or left the cap off the pint bottle of solvent. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Marty Cooper 

On June 6, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Ed,

It is not about belief. It is about scientific fact. Period. As I said in the previous thread, you would have to seal the paint booth and volatilize the ENTIRE contents of a 2 oz paint jar to even begin to approach (not achieve) an explosive concentration. Direct volatilization of solvents with an airbrush will also not achieve a flammable or explosive concentration. Even Andy Sperandeo, editor of MR when this urban legend of needing spark proof fans was started, admitted that these were completely unnecessary.  I suggest that those who doubt, search, read, and learn.

By way of credentials, I have a significant amount of laboratory experience and routinely use a variety of safety hoods in my professional work.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of spsalso via groups.io <Edwardsutorik@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Paint Booth
 
Bruce,

The type of motor is only irrelevant if a person believes your assertion that it is impossible to form an explosive mixture.  Some here might not.  So I pointed out that the motors they were likely to choose were brushless, thus eliminating a major, and perhaps only, ignition source in the system.

Ed

Edward Sutorik

 


Re: Who offered this O scale PFE #71407 R-40-2 reefer?

Jack Mullen
 

On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 11:23 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
The kit number and class are indeed R-40-2, but that class had grab-iron rows, not ladders, so as presented the model is incorrect.
Yes, but unfortunately replacing the clunky slippery plastic ladders with grabs won't make this an R-40-2. The car body is a foob for  that or any PFE class I can think of. And the orange is wrong.

It is indeed a Walthers kit. Not sure when it originated, but was marketed in the '70s iirc.

Jack Mullen


Re: QUESTION ON RUNNIBNG BOARD END SUPPORTS

Bill Welch
 

For the leg that attaches to the car end I use one rivet/bolt head. For older cars that have a 1x4 or 1x6 under the end of the running board I often put two on each leg.

Bill Welch


Rapido USRA boxcars

bill woelfel
 

Picked up my cars today at the  LHS.  Carmer cut levers on the ATSF models.  1936 date.  Not too sure about the color tho.   Bill


Re: QUESTION ON RUNNIBNG BOARD END SUPPORTS

Jack Burgess
 

Bill…

 

Attached is a wood double-sheathed box car built in 1914 and it shows just one bolt per leg which seems fine since there would be that much load on it. BTW, Yarmouth Model Works has photo-etched parts for these supports as part No. YMW-38 (Eye Bolts & Misc: Running Board and Lateral Braces). This set provides the supports for one car plus other parts.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2020 3:20 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] QUESTION ON RUNNIBNG BOARD END SUPPORTS

 

 

The end supports for the running board on most boxcars in the 40’s and 50’s consisted of a metal  angle attached to the running board end with two legs projecting down to the car end.  Many earlier boxcars used a 1 X 4” board

with two metal legs running down to the car end.  I have three cars nearing completion on my workbench that use the latter support.  They are a UP B-50-20, an NP stock car and an SP 50’ door and a half auto car. 

My question is did the metal supports use one or two bolts in attaching to the 1 X4’s and running board slats? I have viewed numerous photos and cannot come up with an answer.  A small item but need to know for the sake of accuracy.

 

Thanks for any help:

 

\

Bill Pardie