Date   

Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

I didn't know this until recently--the rayon Malcolm mentioned is made from wood pulp. One of the principal producers of rayon was . . . stand by for this . . . Rayonier Incorporated (later ITT Rayonier). While it doesn't quite fit in with our interest in freight cars, Rayonier had extensive logging railroads, and ran one of the last big Pacific Northwest "steam shows" into the 1960s. Of course they had freight cars: log cars of various kinds (mandatory freight car content).

Circa 1969 my father and I were allowed access to one of their operations, IIRC at Railroad Camp. We were able to photograph their remaining steam locomotives including ex-Sierra 38. None were operating then, as the operation was all-diesel. And I turned my nose up at their Baldwins. (Sheesh!).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:12 AM mrvant@... <mrvant@...> wrote:

There is a good description of the silk trains in Canada at the link. CPR dominated with their own steamships. The trade in Canada started in 1887 and petered out in 1930s with the depression and competition from Japanese ships using the Panama Canal to get to New York. Eventually rayon replaces silk. Special lighter weight cars, shorter than box cars, equipped with passenger car trucks were used to transport raw silk on special high speed trains that had the highest priority on the railway. The market for the Canadian railways was also in New York.

The silk cars later showed up in express baggage service. They had distinctive centre doors and were shorter.

Malcolm Vant

https://www.canadashistory.ca/explore/transportation/canada-s-silk-road

 


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

gastro42000 <martincooper@...>
 


On June 9, 2020 at 2:04 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:  po

Marty Cooper wrote:hi: yep. I wanted one, I got one. It makes a nice static display, but it is too heavy to run without pulling the rest of the cars off the track. Marty Cooper 

Hi: it also makes a nice brass car, but very heavy. Marty Cooper 

     There was at least one brass version which had turned aluminum tanks.

Tony Thompson




 


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Tony Thompson
 

Marty Cooper wrote:

Hi: it also makes a nice brass car, but very heavy. Marty Cooper 

     There was at least one brass version which had turned aluminum tanks.

Tony Thompson




Re: Paint color for New Haven orange boxcars

Bill Welch
 

I am using Tamiya's Orange reduced w/Mr. Color's Leveling thinner, decals by Smoke Box Graphics

Bill Welch


Re: Paint color for New Haven orange boxcars

Peter Ness
 

Hi Bob,

True Color Red-Orange TCP 040 is the current day best match to Serial 409 used in these repaints.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Miller
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2020 11:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Paint color for New Haven orange boxcars

 

Can anyone on the list suggest a good paint match for the orange the New Haven used on some of its boxcars?


Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

spsalso
 

The Silk Road was established hundreds of years ahead of steam powered trains, and I strongly suspect the travel time for the product was quite lengthy, compared to the latter.

Here is some commentary on current raw silk transport:

https://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/ware/fasern/seide/seide-htm/#informationen

Note that there is no comment about time sensitivity FOR THE PRODUCT.  Note also that it can be transported in containers or on airplanes.  Again with no apparent time sensitivity.  Aside from rats or water, it's pretty stable.

I believe the reason for the emphasis on high-speed transport of silk was to get it to market first, because that drew higher prices.  Silk production is seasonal, so whoever delivered the first batch got the big bucks.  For that matter, the last trainload might be almost worthless IF demand was low for silk.  Of course, to then boost demand, prices could be lowered.  Not something most capitalists yearn for.

Also, because of the high value of silk at the time these trains were running, the added cost of moving it at high speed was proportionally less.  


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Paint color for New Haven orange boxcars

Robert J Miller CFA
 

Can anyone on the list suggest a good paint match for the orange the New Haven used on some of its boxcars?


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Bill Welch
 

On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:56 AM, gastro42000 wrote:
<!doctype html>
Hi: it also makes a nice brass car, but very heavy. Marty Cooper 
 
 I do not find brass cars that interesting Marty, often fine detail is overdone. A lot depends on the manufacturer's/importer's standards and demands in terms of quality.
welchWith a resin kit I am in charge of accuracy and fineness.
Bill Welch
 


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

gastro42000 <martincooper@...>
 

Hi: it also makes a nice brass car, but very heavy. Marty Cooper 

On June 9, 2020 at 9:15 AM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

This would make a great Resin kit. The cylinders could have a cavity molded in to accommodate weights.

Bill Welch

 


Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

mrvant@rogers.com
 

There is a good description of the silk trains in Canada at the link. CPR dominated with their own steamships. The trade in Canada started in 1887 and petered out in 1930s with the depression and competition from Japanese ships using the Panama Canal to get to New York. Eventually rayon replaces silk. Special lighter weight cars, shorter than box cars, equipped with passenger car trucks were used to transport raw silk on special high speed trains that had the highest priority on the railway. The market for the Canadian railways was also in New York.

The silk cars later showed up in express baggage service. They had distinctive centre doors and were shorter.

Malcolm Vant

https://www.canadashistory.ca/explore/transportation/canada-s-silk-road

 


Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

Paul Doggett
 

Jim

The SP had silk and tea cars especially for that service. Just how long they lasted in that service I don’t know.

Paul Doggett   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 



On 9 Jun 2020, at 14:45, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Tom,
  Yes, the silk trade was the hottest stuff on the railroads for almost a decade.
I believe that the primary route was from Asia to the Western U.S. by ship,
to the Eastern U.S. by rail, and then to Europe by ship.  Either the raw
silk or sometimes even the silkworms in their cucoons were shipped
live and they could only live so long and the ship trip around either
Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope was much more time -
remember that in those days (let's say "the 20's") the primary marine
shipping was still sail.  I do not know why the worms/raw silk was so
perishable - but perhaps it wasn't that so much as rushing it to a very
lucrative market.
  On the Great Northern they had a unique class of locomotives that
were used for the silk trade - the 4-8-2 P-2s.  The Charles Wood book
on the GN has an entire chapter devoted to it called "The P-2s Ran
The Silk" and there is this as well from the GNRHS

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/54/v54i01p016-031.pdf

  I don't know which other RRs had silk trains - but if you google "Great
Northern Silk" you will get a lot of hits to more info.  Just bypass all the
stuff for books from sources like Amazon!
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

Jim Betz
 

Tom,
  Yes, the silk trade was the hottest stuff on the railroads for almost a decade.
I believe that the primary route was from Asia to the Western U.S. by ship,
to the Eastern U.S. by rail, and then to Europe by ship.  Either the raw
silk or sometimes even the silkworms in their cucoons were shipped
live and they could only live so long and the ship trip around either
Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope was much more time -
remember that in those days (let's say "the 20's") the primary marine
shipping was still sail.  I do not know why the worms/raw silk was so
perishable - but perhaps it wasn't that so much as rushing it to a very
lucrative market.
  On the Great Northern they had a unique class of locomotives that
were used for the silk trade - the 4-8-2 P-2s.  The Charles Wood book
on the GN has an entire chapter devoted to it called "The P-2s Ran
The Silk" and there is this as well from the GNRHS

http://collections.mnhs.org/MNHistoryMagazine/articles/54/v54i01p016-031.pdf

  I don't know which other RRs had silk trains - but if you google "Great
Northern Silk" you will get a lot of hits to more info.  Just bypass all the
stuff for books from sources like Amazon!
                                                                                         - Jim


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Bill Welch
 

This would make a great Resin kit. The cylinders could have a cavity molded in to accommodate weights.

Bill Welch


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Mont Switzer
 

Handling chlorine cylinders (called "tons") is nasty business.  One reason for so many of these miniature pressure vessels is should there be a leak (chlorine gas) you are only dealing with 2000 lbs of product. 

 

Once unloaded from the car, the "tons" are easy to distribute to multiple locations where the product is used.  A lot of them go into water treatment.

 

Mont Switzer     


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Mont Switzer [MSwitzer@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2020 8:49 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

John,

 

Unless the HM regulations were different back then the placards have to remain on the car whether loaded or empty to cover the residue.  However, there may have been a slightly different placard for the residue back then.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of John Barry [northbaylines@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:11 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

As Ian and Tony have stated, most likely Chlorine which was required to be placarded as a poison gas.  Your photo captures said placard so you can infer that the car was loaded when you shot it.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, June 8, 2020, 09:02:29 PM EDT, Ian Cranstone <lamontc@...> wrote:


Cars of this type usually were in chlorine service, each canister held 1 ton.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


On 2020-06-08 20:37, Richard Wilkens wrote:

U.S. Army Tank Car USAX 16503 at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles on May 24, 1958. Wonder what nasty stuff was in those tanks?

Richard Wilkens


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Mont Switzer
 

John,

 

Unless the HM regulations were different back then the placards have to remain on the car whether loaded or empty to cover the residue.  However, there may have been a slightly different placard for the residue back then.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of John Barry [northbaylines@...]
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:11 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

As Ian and Tony have stated, most likely Chlorine which was required to be placarded as a poison gas.  Your photo captures said placard so you can infer that the car was loaded when you shot it.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, June 8, 2020, 09:02:29 PM EDT, Ian Cranstone <lamontc@...> wrote:


Cars of this type usually were in chlorine service, each canister held 1 ton.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


On 2020-06-08 20:37, Richard Wilkens wrote:

U.S. Army Tank Car USAX 16503 at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles on May 24, 1958. Wonder what nasty stuff was in those tanks?

Richard Wilkens


Re: New Haven/ BAR insulated box car paint question

Peter Ness
 

Hi Johannes,

 

Bruce is correct, but also there is not much photo evidence to support the statement in Ralph’s article in MM about repainting as early as 1956…

Most if not all of the New Haven 45000-45099 Class XIH insulated boxcars were repainted brown with the large NH herald in 1968 at Maybrook.  The heater equipment was removed and the cars were reclassed XI. Some lasted in the delivery scheme longer.

 

The cars were new in 1953, so since you already have one in the SOM scheme, for better or worse, that’s appropriate.

 

All are welcome to visit the freight cars page on my website https://newhavenrailroad1959.webs.com/newhavenfreightcars.htm for New Haven information. I don’t have everything you may need since my New Haven “ends” in 1959.

 

For those that may recall my post last year on an HO scale resin kit of this car, Steve never got the project off the ground, but Eastern Seaboard Models has announced an HO scale version.

 

Stay healthy,

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 7:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Haven/ BAR insulated box car paint question

 

Johannes,

 

You have to be careful how you interpret statements 😉 "At least as early as July 1956" doesn't meant it can't be earlier. In this case, the BAR cars, which were built ion 1950 and 1953, were delivered in the Red, White and Blue State of Maine scheme. http://users.silcon.com/~lgoss/barpage6.htm  Careful examination of photos of these cars show RW&B cars with NEW stencils confirming that it is the original paint scheme.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 6:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Haven/ BAR insulated box car paint question

 

Hello Richard,

 

many thanks. With your reply I did some googling and found this:

 

 

Apparently what you are speaking about. 1956 unfortunately is a little late for me.

But I also found this:

 

 

Is this an as-built scheme? That would be truly perfect...!

 

Thanks again and greetings

 

Johannes

 

Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Juni 2020 um 01:05 Uhr
Von: "Richard Townsend via groups.io" <richtownsend@...>
An: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] New Haven/ BAR insulated box car paint question

According to Ralph Harris's article "NH Boxcar Part II" in the May 1995 MM, some NH cars were repainted to BCR scheme with large block "NH" at least as early as July 1956.
 

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2020 3:55 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] New Haven/ BAR insulated box car paint question
 

Hello friends,

I consider purchasing this model:

https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/117375/HO-Brass-Model-CCI---Railworks-Crown-Custom-Imports-CCI-262-NH---BAR-New-Haven---Bangor-Arastook-Insulated-Boxcar-w--Under-Car-Heater-Unpainted

I already have one in the beautiful "State of Maine" scheme. Were all these cars painted this way when delivered, or is there another accurate paint scheme of that time or shortly after?

Many thanks and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953


Re: Photo: Loading Raw Silk

Thomas Evans
 

If I recall correctly, there were special super-fast "silk trains" at one time.
Now I'm curious to know more.

Tom E.


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

John Barry
 

As Ian and Tony have stated, most likely Chlorine which was required to be placarded as a poison gas.  Your photo captures said placard so you can infer that the car was loaded when you shot it.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, June 8, 2020, 09:02:29 PM EDT, Ian Cranstone <lamontc@...> wrote:


Cars of this type usually were in chlorine service, each canister held 1 ton.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


On 2020-06-08 20:37, Richard Wilkens wrote:

U.S. Army Tank Car USAX 16503 at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles on May 24, 1958. Wonder what nasty stuff was in those tanks?

Richard Wilkens


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Ian Cranstone
 

Cars of this type usually were in chlorine service, each canister held 1 ton.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

 


On 2020-06-08 20:37, Richard Wilkens wrote:

U.S. Army Tank Car USAX 16503 at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles on May 24, 1958. Wonder what nasty stuff was in those tanks?

Richard Wilkens


Re: Tank Car United States Army USAX 16503

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Wilkens wrote:

U.S. Army Tank Car USAX 16503 at Taylor Yard in Los Angeles on May 24, 1958. Wonder what nasty stuff was in those tanks?

     Cars like that, with those removable tanks, were normally chlorine cars, but other compressed gasses could certainly be shipped that way. The tanks, known as "one-ton tanks," presumably by weight of tank plus cargo, could be separately distributed to buyers.

Tony Thompson



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