Date   

Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Lee
 

The presentation the Bruce smith just completed on the speedwitch hindsight 20/20 gave excellent coverslip and photos and documents covering this.  


Lee Stoermer
Aldie, VA

On Saturday, June 13, 2020, 11:09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Groups;

 

I have been asked for some info on the X31A cars, so here are some facts:

 

From the mid-thirties production years, there were around 7300 in service, more than many roads’ entire fleets;

 

In 1943, there were 7285 X31A;

 

In 1949, 7250 cars, now the second-most common box cars on the PRR;

 

In 1955, 7195 remain, while X29 numbers are falling;

 

It is not until the 1960’s that X31A numbers fall, and even so, there are 6404 SD and 578 DD cars still in service in 1964.

 

The X31A DD were widely used in AUTOMOBILE service initially;

 

Many other X31A are used in dedicated service, including: auto loading, auto parts, linoleum, and even a group of coal tar pitch cars;

 

There were even X31A in dedicated coil steel service, some of the first such cars used this way;

 

There was even a group of dedicated silk, later rayon, rack cars.

 

And of course, the thousands more in general service.

 

With the number of photos I have looked at, the X31A went virtually EVERYWHERE.

 

Now you know.

 

Elden Gatwood


Re: cut off disc "The good ones"

John Moore
 


-- If modelers have not used the "Good Ones" then they don't really know what a good cut off disc is like.

Here is the package and one of the discs from the last Good Ones  I purchased years ago from my local hobby shop which is gone.

I would be interested in finding them again to purchase.  I have tried many of the suggestions but they just are too thick and don't do the job the Good Ones do.

okladivjohn@...


Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Larry Smith
 

I think I can add some information here as I helped write the Walthers book on the automobile industry and the railroads.  At the time these cars were built, the standard ARA car height was 10' and the auto cars at the time could only ship two automobiles, 50' cars three.  Evans developed their auto loader increasing the the number of automobiles that could be shipped.  The problem was that they wouldn't fit in a 10' car.  PRR developed the X31s and X32's with the round roofs to get the extra height for the auto loaders.  A big battle ensured with the other railroads having clearance problems with the cars and PRR embargoing the other railroads from its lines if they wouldn't accept the cars in interchange, it wwas very shortlived and the new AAR standard became 10'6" for boxcars.

Larry Smith

On Saturday, June 13, 2020, 11:51:38 AM CDT, Douglas Nelson <doug514@...> wrote:


Eldon:
Was the round roof used to provide extra interior height for automobile loading?  Was there a rack system for over-under loading?

Also, did railroad clearance need to be increased before these cars entered service?

Doug Nelson.
> On Jun 13, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
>
>



Re: double sheathed boxcar with a herald

San Antonio & San Francisco <sanantonio-sanfrancisco@...>
 

I believe this is the car you are looking for.

Levi


BIRMINGHAM TANK COMPANY

Bill Keene
 

Did the Birmingham Tank Company, part of Ingalls Shipbuilding, ever build railroad tank cars?

I have done a bit of on-line searching and have yet to find any reference about this company having built tank cars. Maybe I am not the best of searchers. :-\

Thanks & Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Doug;

From correspondence I have read, they were trying to maximize capacity within the as-then clearance diagram dimensions, and tunnels, and accommodated that by several means: the grab above the side ladders and below the lateral had a depression for fingers beneath the grab. So, the grab didn't enter the "forbidden" space. The roof shape and r/b fit nicely within clearances, while pushing the envelope above the dimensions of X28, etc.

It is not lost on me that the shape of the X31/32/33 resembles a tunnel bore, which PRR had in numbers, of restricting size/dimension, on the Panhandle in particular (some later "day-lighted"), which plays into the "why wasn't it rectangular" question. I have not seen the mention of which specific tunnels, although it must've been a discussion. Other roads had similar restrictions.

It appears that automobiles were certainly a consideration for all railroads, like PRR, Wabash, NYC, and others wanting to ship autos, but loading them horizontally, on the floor, was inefficient and costly.

I am certainly no expert on auto racks, but when Evans started coming out with their racks, PRR noticed.

Depending on the racks, it could be under/over, or diagonally under/over, and that depended on what type of vehicle. The limited number I have seen are HIGHLY varied.

The X31/32/33 were a success.

PRR kept pushing the envelope. The most interesting from my point of view, is the experiment that became the X37/37A/37B, and X38/38A/etc cars, where a "Mansard"-looking eave/juncture between roof and side was created, that totally pushed the envelope. Those cars varied height by sub-class, and could be refused based on height, if for instance, they were routed onto the B&O, or other lower height-able roads.

Bruce is going to educate us all on the larger story....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: PRR@PRR.groups.io <PRR@PRR.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Nelson
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:52 AM
To: PRR@prr.groups.io
Cc: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Eldon:
Was the round roof used to provide extra interior height for automobile loading? Was there a rack system for over-under loading?

Also, did railroad clearance need to be increased before these cars entered service?

Doug Nelson.
On Jun 13, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Bruce Smith
 

I please the 5th!  In reality, it was about 90% coincidence. 

Regards,
Bruce


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:17 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO
 
The shock on my face!!!!
fenton

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:13 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
How many think it's coincidence that the Rapido announcement comes the day before Bruce is giving a talk of that very car type?
CW Propst 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Douglas Nelson
 

Eldon:
Was the round roof used to provide extra interior height for automobile loading? Was there a rack system for over-under loading?

Also, did railroad clearance need to be increased before these cars entered service?

Doug Nelson.

On Jun 13, 2020, at 8:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:


PRR X31A facts you want to know

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Groups;

 

I have been asked for some info on the X31A cars, so here are some facts:

 

From the mid-thirties production years, there were around 7300 in service, more than many roads’ entire fleets;

 

In 1943, there were 7285 X31A;

 

In 1949, 7250 cars, now the second-most common box cars on the PRR;

 

In 1955, 7195 remain, while X29 numbers are falling;

 

It is not until the 1960’s that X31A numbers fall, and even so, there are 6404 SD and 578 DD cars still in service in 1964.

 

The X31A DD were widely used in AUTOMOBILE service initially;

 

Many other X31A are used in dedicated service, including: auto loading, auto parts, linoleum, and even a group of coal tar pitch cars;

 

There were even X31A in dedicated coil steel service, some of the first such cars used this way;

 

There was even a group of dedicated silk, later rayon, rack cars.

 

And of course, the thousands more in general service.

 

With the number of photos I have looked at, the X31A went virtually EVERYWHERE.

 

Now you know.

 

Elden Gatwood


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

O Fenton Wells
 

The shock on my face!!!!
fenton

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 10:13 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
How many think it's coincidence that the Rapido announcement comes the day before Bruce is giving a talk of that very car type?
CW Propst 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Clark Propst
 

How many think it's coincidence that the Rapido announcement comes the day before Bruce is giving a talk of that very car type?
CW Propst 


Re: EARLY LV "wrong way" box

Bud Rindfleisch
 

You're very welcome Schuyler! Yes, a blt date would have been nice. Like I said this photo was a gift from a friend who tried to coerce me to build one, but alas at the time there were no Fox trucks available in S scale, and I needed other excuses too!
     There had been some speculation that the flag on these early cars might have been green rather than red, but no definite proof to verify.
     Bud Rindfleisch


Re: EARLY LV "wrong way" box

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Ed,
     Nice wrong way door car! Using the Chiclets to represent floor sacks...what a neat idea, of course perfect size for O scale! 
     I too bought one of the Central Hobby's HO kits with intentions of duplicating the car in S scale, but so far have not got around to it. Most recently Shapeways had the other inverse ends for these cars so I am rethinking this project.
     Bud Rindfleisch


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Almufti Hishman
 

Here is a link to my solution for a Chad Boas flatcar, with photos.
https://groups.io/g/ResinFreightCarBuilders/message/5039?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,first+resin,20,2,20,72516954
Search Southern flatcar finished.
I addressed added weight, and also anti-bow technique.

Regards,
Jeff Oliver


"The good ones" cutoff disks for Dremel

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Andy,

 

Try Googling

Dremel 426 1-1/4” Fiberglass Reinforced Cut-Off Wheel.  Also look at 456.

 

I also have a package of Chicago Electric 1-1/2” Rotary Cut-Off Wheels.  Chicago Electric, of course, is a Harbor Freight product.  It’s marked Item 34749.  I’ve never used them, the package is unsullied by human hands.

 

I used to have (and think I still do, somewhere) a pack of “The Good Ones” but I cannot locate it now, but if you Google Cut-off wheel 1/16” arbor, you’ll get a goodly number of non-Dremel choices, but getting the 1/16” hole is a tough search.

 

But you can always go to McMaster-Carr, and look for cut-off disks.  Look at the selection of disks for Dremel.  There are a number of specific-purpose wheels at different diameters, and some are “Fiberglass Mesh” reinforced.  Reasonably priced, a package of six 1½” disks, is $9.98, plus some shipping.  You’ll have it by Monday or Tuesday.

 

Hope that helps you out.

 

Schuyler


Re: cut off disc "The good ones"

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

O'Reilly Auto Parts bought out Bond Auto in northern New England last fall and most prices went up 20 to 30% within a few weeks. The result is there is rarely a car in front of one in any town that has a competing supplier now. Try a NAPA store and you'll save if they have them.

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Index For Railroad Magazine

Gary Ray
 

Hi Bob,

Please contact me off line.

Gary Ray

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 5:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Index For Railroad Magazine

 

Index For Railroad Magazine

Does anyone know where to find an on-line index to Railroad Magazine (1906 - 1979)?

Thank you.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Virus-free. www.avast.com


SEEKING UNION PACIFIC PLANS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

A few tears back Exactaraul released an excellent model of  Union Pacific F-50-15 flat car.  They featured this at Naperville.  AMB produced an excellent wood deck for this car.  It is coming to the top of my stack.  I would like to get some drawings
of the underbody and brake arrangement for this car.  Appreciate any help or leads.

Thanks:

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Gary McMills <santafe@...>
Date: 6/12/20 3:31 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

I use lead sheeting that is available in 1/16 inch thickness from https://www.rotometals.com/

Gary McMills

 


On 2020-06-12 14:52, Tony Thompson wrote:

Ben Hom wrote:

 
 
Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).
    Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer.
     There have occasionally been outbreaks of hysteria about the health dangers of lead. Well, lead in metallic form is not dangerous. It does have lead oxide on its surface, so do wash your hands after handling it, but beyond that, not to worry. 

Tony Thompson
 


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Gary McMills
 

I use lead sheeting that is available in 1/16 inch thickness from https://www.rotometals.com/

Gary McMills

 


On 2020-06-12 14:52, Tony Thompson wrote:

Ben Hom wrote:

 
 
Plan ahead.  Figure out what will and won't be visible when the car is on the track to determine where you can hide weight.  To echo Richard Hendrickson, no point in modeling what won't be seen, and not modeling underframe or brake details in exchange for accommodating weight is a fair trade if you want the car to operate well.  Try to maximize the amount of weight for the volume available - if you can't cut pieces of sheet lead, consider using the smallest shot you can find.  (I'm not sold on more exotic solutions such as titanium dust as the cost doesn't seem to justify the incremental gain).  Consider using thin sheet brass or lead under the deck if possible, and metal trucks if the correct type is available.  Don't wait until the car is painted and decaled before deciding to add weight to the car (or work coupler and truck issues for that matter).
    Lead is significantly denser than brass. Titanium is rather less dense than either. I agree with Ben that lead is an excellent choice, especially in sheet form. You can readily buy this from roofers' supply stores (sometimes plumbers also) even if your local Big Box no longer carries it. And an advantage of lead is that it is so soft, you can readily "forge" pieces to fit where they need to go in an under frame. You barely need a hammer.
     There have occasionally been outbreaks of hysteria about the health dangers of lead. Well, lead in metallic form is not dangerous. It does have lead oxide on its surface, so do wash your hands after handling it, but beyond that, not to worry. 

Tony Thompson
 


Index For Railroad Magazine

Bob Chaparro
 
Edited

Index For Railroad Magazine

Does anyone know where to find an on-line index of articles appearing in Railroad Magazine (1906 - 1979)?

Thank you.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

9261 - 9280 of 183573