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Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Clark Propst
 

I've attached a Bill Armstrong photo take on a lowly branchline in central Iowa. Shows they crawled out on some of the skinniest limbs  ;  ))
CW Propst


Re: Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

John Barry
 

Eric,

Pure speculation - Capacity set by the car owner at something less than the standard, not to be changed on re-weigh.  Denoted in my 1944 era by a star.  Just a guess, but not a WAG.

John

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Sunday, June 14, 2020, 08:42:15 AM EDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


The boxcar has a 1926 weigh stencil so the photo can't be 1923.

What is the back story on the Arbitrary stencils used with the weigh data here? I've not seen that before.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN



On June 13, 2020 at 11:42 PM "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

A 1923 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/6527

Only a fair quality photo.

Banner advertises motor oil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 


Re: Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

Eric Hansmann
 

The boxcar has a 1926 weigh stencil so the photo can't be 1923.

What is the back story on the Arbitrary stencils used with the weigh data here? I've not seen that before.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN



On June 13, 2020 at 11:42 PM "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

A 1923 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/6527

Only a fair quality photo.

Banner advertises motor oil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Mark Rossiter
 

The Rapido webpage advertising these cars gives the date ranges that the various paint schemes were applicable:

https://files.constantcontact.com/b02e8bb6001/407e09a1-d552-48c6-ab72-7bcb9b8710b1.pdf

 

Mark Rossiter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Photo: Embalmed Whale Carrier

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Embalmed Whale Carrier

A 1930 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/9099

A special car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: MILW Flat Cat 57026 With Auto Carriers & Banner

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: MILW Flat Cat 57026 With Auto Carriers & Banner

A 1960 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/26811

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: UP Boxcar 13356 With Banner

A 1923 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/6527

Only a fair quality photo.

Banner advertises motor oil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Northern Refrigerator Car Co. Reefer 9200

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Northern Refrigerator Car Co. Reefer 9200

A 1928 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/7020

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha Boxcar 23206

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Chicago, St. Paul, Minneapolis & Omaha Boxcar 23206

A 1923 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/4744

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: brakes

Dennis Storzek
 

I've never read that the Westinghouse brake schedule designations had any meaning beyond just being a designation for the schedule of equipment, but they had to come from somewhere. The meaning of C and D in the K brake schedules are pretty obvious, as are several generations of locomotive equipment; 6ET equipment was used to equip Engines and Tenders, 14EL equipment was used on Electric Locomotives, and 24RL was used on Road Locomotives. However, Westinghouse avoided attaching any significance to the letters, which left them free to use the next letter in line, or a different letter, when they developed an upgrade. P was the designation for the passenger triple valve that was contemporary with the K freight brake, but the next improvement was L, and M and R were used on electric railway motor cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Jeff Helm
 

Bruce,

Thank you, very helpful link to that PRR paint page!  And, yes, reweigh date of course.
--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Bruce Smith
 

Jeff,

Don't put to much emphasis on early artwork. It will change. Especially since one of the putative single door car numbers is actually in the double door series (oops!). Note that it is not a "rebuild" date, but a reweigh date. Rapido has expressed their philosophy that they like to produce cars with reweigh dates at the beginning of the period of the paint scheme. However:

1) reweigh dates are SIMPLE to change and so I never let that bother me and 
2) Paint schemes often lasted well past the "changeover" date to a new scheme. 

Jerry Britton has a nice web page detailing the changes in PRR paint at:

In 1965, most or all ball (or circle) keystone cars should be gone. Plain Keystone would be the most recent scheme (starting in 1961) but I would expect to see shadow keystone cars (starting in 1954).

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeff Helm <jeff.helm.60@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X31A facts you want to know
 
I too have a similar question as raised by Jim, except for 1965. I “think” it’s some variation of Shadow Keystone, but I was unable to read the rebuild dates on Rapido’s illustrations for the cars.
--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Jeff Helm
 

Sorry - re-weigh date, not rebuild
--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Jeff Helm
 

I too have a similar question as raised by Jim, except for 1965. I “think” it’s some variation of Shadow Keystone, but I was unable to read the rebuild dates on Rapido’s illustrations for the cars.
--
Jeff Helm
Bremerton WA


Re: cut off disc "The good ones"

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Don, 
Happily they gave me the Covid-86 shuffle. I am a model builder/house hog now.

Rob Manley
"Better modeling through personal embarrassment"


On Saturday, June 13, 2020, 04:15:35 PM CDT, Joseph Melhorn <toyman@...> wrote:


I still have a few “The Good Ones” left and also have not been able to find a source. However, Dremel has 1 ½” diameter by .020 wide reinforced cut off discs in their EZ Lock product line. Here’s the P/N: EZ409. You’ll have to buy the EZ Lock mandrel though. They’re .005” thinner than your “The Good Ones”, that you posted a pic of.

Regards,

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 


Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Tony Thompson
 

Don Valentine wrote:

Sounds more like the Pennsy just trying to throw its weight around.

     And you express surprise?

Tony Thompson




Re: brakes

Randy Hees
 

The original Westinghouse automatic brake valve was designated the "F"  It was patented in 1872.   It did not have "fast action".  In general it was good for a train of 8-10 cars.  The F valve did not meet the minimum standard (no valve did) at the first Burlington Air Brake trial in 1886, which used a 50 car train..  In response Westinghouse offered the "H" brake valve, which did have "fast action".  In a fast action, the air brake valve not only applies air in response to dropping the air pressure in the train line, but also recognizes a rapid air pressure loss as an emergency, and in that case in addition to a maximum brake application the valve also vents the train line, reducing pressure in the train line.  As a result the change in pressure is much more rapid, and the brakes apply much quicker.

The "K" valve was introduced in 1906/07 as an improved "H" valve.  They used the same mounting flange (to the brake reservoir if a "HC" or "KC" ("F" used a different flange) Externally the only difference between a "H" and "K" was an added flange on the valve body casting.  Westinghouse offered a kit to convert a "H" to a "K".  That kit included a sheet metal flange to be added to the valve body to give the "H" valve the same silhouette as a "K".

On the D&RG(W) "F" valves were used on tenders until the end of operation.  Most passenger cars on the D&RG(W) had "F" valves, and they are in use on the C&TS historic cars.  The D&RG freight car order of 1903 (3000 class box cars, 30' stock cars, & drop bottom gons all had "H" valves, all of which were converted to "K" with the added sheet metal flange.

Randy Hees


Re: brakes

Dave Parker
 

Schuyler:

There is some conflicting information out there with respect to exact dates (e.g., the NMRA info looks suspect), but I tend to rely on the 1913 Westinghouse handbook for information about K brakes:

https://archive.org/details/westinghouseairb00inteuoft

My understanding is that Westinghouse came up with the "quick-action" triple valve in 1887 (replacing the "plain" valves), and rapidly cornered the marked on air-brake equipment. The first such triple was the "H" valve (H-1, H-2), which was the superseded by the "K" design sometime around the turn of the century (I can't find the exact date with a quick search).  These were just Westinghouse model designations, but they were the de facto industry standard, which is why you see "K-2 Triple" (or K-1) stenciled on so many pre-1927 cars.

In case the clinic didn't cover it, the K-1 valve was for use with 6- and 8-in diameter cylinders, while the K-2 was paired with 12-in cylinders.  KC was short for "cylinder and reservoir Combined", and KD for "cylinder and reservoir Detached".

Hope this helps with the K side of your questions.  I'll leave AB to someone who who models in that era.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Larry Smith wrote: " A big battle ensued with the other railroads having clearance a problems with the cars and PRR embargoing the other railroads from its lines if they wouldn't accept the cars in interchange,"

  I smell a rather large sized rat here. What evidence can you site for this please, Larry. Not to be argumentive, and I admit to being no fan of the Standard Scrapyard of the World, but this sounds like an attorney's field day as I cannot imagine any possibility of what you claim the Pennsy did being legal. Did the matter ever reach the courts and, if so, what were the results? Sounds more like the Pennsy just trying to throw its weight around.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: [PRR] PRR X31A facts you want to know

Tony Thompson
 

Larry Smith wrote:

A big battle ensured with the other railroads having clearance problems with the cars and PRR embargoing the other railroads from its lines if they wouldn't accept the cars in interchange, it wwas very shortlived and the new AAR standard became 10'6" for boxcars.

   As some will know, this story is a great irony. In the 1920s, when several Western roads were building tall automobile cars, Pennsy led the objections of eastern roads to these "oversize" cars. Of course "tall" at that time merely meant taller than an X25.

Tony Thompson



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