Date   

Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Joseph Melhorn
 

I’ve had good luck with drill bits and hand taps from Drills and Cutters: https://drillsandcutters.com/hand-taps/

Take a look at the HSS Hand Taps. The drill bits I buy from them are the Jobber Drills (Standard Length), Black Oxide, Surface Treated, Standard Point,  by Qualtech.

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Mont Switzer
 

As long as everyone is weighing in on the transportation of various types of sand here goes.  The Monon had lot of sand on line near Lake Michigan at Michigan City, IN, known as the Indiana Sand Dunes.  Old photos show sand being shoveled into boxcars, destinations unknown.

 

Particularly interesting is how locomotive sand was handled at Monon, Indiana, up until about 1969.  The Monon  RR had a 3 stall engine house at Monon , IN, and kept 1 to 3 locomotives there at any given time.  The engine house was actually 4 stalls wide, but the second stall from the south did not have a track going into it.  Instead that was where a sand drying furnace was located.

 

Locomotive sand was hauled in in gondolas from Michigan City.  The gon was spotted inside the engine house on the first track to the south.  The sand was then shoveled into the drier as needed.  Dried sand was carried to the locomotives in buckets and dispensed into them.  

 

The Monon dieselized in 1946 and 1947, in the steam era for the purposes of this list.  (all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)  Most power was EMD and sand filler hatches were located on the sides of the F-3's and BL-2's about the same level as the cab floors.   A full length platform was therefore built on both sides of the northerly most engine house stall track which also had the inspection pit.  This allowed the bucket carrying hostler to walk up a set of steps and onto a platform to add sand to the locomotive being serviced.

 

Lots of hard work for a lot of years.  This system was only replaced when the engine house was torn down  and locomotive servicing moved closer to the station near downtown Monon.  Overhead sanding towers and hoses were installed at that time, well beyond the steam era.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Peter Ness [prness@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Peter Ness
 

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: K4 Decals: Anyone Have Experience With These?

O Fenton Wells
 

I’ve got them but not used them yet. They look great
Feedback on this site seems to be mostly positive
Fenton 


On Jun 16, 2020, at 8:49 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

Bob, search the archives.  Plenty of discussion of K4.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Douglas Harding
 

Randy lots of sand pits in Iowa. The car was coming from Des Moines. Des Moines has two rivers, and lots of sand and gravel pits. I suspect the car was loaded in the Des Moines area. The bigger question is what was a NH 41’ gon doing in Iowa? It must have been off loaded in Des Moines, perhaps on the MSTL. Then loaded with sand and the MSTL took it to Dallas Center team track for the Highway Department. Des Moines did/does have a lot of manufacturing.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 12:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Birkett wrote:

Trying to determine if the AOX car ever delivered to the Santa Fe.

   Good question, Tom, but certainly not in the early days. SP was part owner and one might doubt they would want to sell to Santa Fe. But that all ended in the 1920s. Would be interesting to know who Santa Fe bought fuel from. By the 1930s, SP was very friendly with what became Chevron, but I've been told that whenever there was a disagreement about price, SP would buy from others until Chevron came around.

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Randy Hammill
 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Get real twist drills from a machinist’s supply (McMaster, MSC, Travers, etc.). For 2-56 screws you want a number 50 drill. Quality usually follows price. A 1st quality USA made drill will cost up to ten times what some imports sell for (Harbor Freight, etc.) … though some imports are of good quality. Most machinist’s supplies carry three or four quality/price options. Most all are better than typical “Hobby-Shop drills”.

By the way, the drills are NOT ’”tapered” … I assume you meant a “taper” tap, but these are quite unusual. The usual tap is a “Plug” type. It’s pretty much general purpose. The taper at the end is 4-5 threads long. A true “Taper” tap has a taper 8-10 threads long, and a “Bottoming” tap has a taper of only 2-3 threads. The tap drill for all is the same.  Again, a machinist’s supply will have all, and a lot of odd specialty taps too.

Dan Mitchell
==========



On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:47 PM, steve_wintner via groups.io <steve_wintner@...> wrote:

I'm pretty confident McMaster Carr has what you want, for a reasonable price.


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

And Tim, if you really want to spend more, but get incredible quality, you can always go to Starrett, just a little ways further out Route 2 . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of steve_wintner via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

 

I'm pretty confident McMaster Carr has what you want, for a reasonable price.


Re: Photo: Embalmed Whale Carrier

Dave Nelson
 

Sounds interesting.  How much whale will the kit  include?


Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Embalmed Whale Carrier

 

      Anybody wanna model this? Could be a Shake 'n' Take . . .

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Thomas Birkett
 

John

I always appreciate your comments even on commodities as common as sand.

We have ATSF 940 on display her in Bartlesville and I have been surprised at how many references and photos exist of a locomotive built in 1903. It spent the first twenty years of its life running out of Needles (I also didn’t realize that Needles was home terminal for crews running both to Siligman and Barstow.)

We also have a 1914 vintage tank car AOX 930 which carried the Phillips Petroleum number PSPX 813 in 1966 after Phillips purchased the west coast assets of Tidewater Oil including the Avon Refinery. I found the tank of this car in the Texas panhandle with both number visible.

My question: since Avon and Richmond were fairly close is that where locomotive fuel on the west end of the Valley Division sourced? If so via pipeline or tank car? Locomotive fuel for Needles? One of the Bakersfield refineries? Trying to determine if the AOX car ever delivered to the Santa Fe.

Regards

Tom Birkett, Bartlesville, Oklahoma

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of John Barry
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

Vic,

 

As you've heard, it depends . . .

 

But I can add two seemingly unusual sand shipments into Richmond California circa 1942.  In one, actually a large steady stream of cars, ATSF received locomotive sand on the Richmond Sand House trestle in SP GS gondolas.  You normally think of company material arriving in home road equipment. But the closest source was in Monterey on the SP. Monterey Sand Sources 

 

 


Monterey Sand Sources

Richmond was a long way from the sand pit on the El Segundo Branch that served the LA division. Photographic ev...

A few photos of the SP gons at the ATSF sand house in Richmond:

 

 

 


Locomotive Sand at Richmond

The Richmond Roundhouse was the locomotive servicing facility for the west end of the Valley Division and the Sa...

 

 

The other is Foundry Sand from upstate New York.  Coal to Newcastle you ask?  No, WWII had just cut off coastal shipping and a Richmond foundry had been getting a very specific sand for their molds from a source in New York, shipped in bulk.  When they found their transportation line cut, they turned to the railroads, only to object to the comparatively high cost of rail haulage.  They filed a rate case with the ICC and lost. 

 

 

 

 

John Barry

 

ATSF North Bay Lines 

Golden Gates & Fast Freights 

Lovettsville, VA

 

707-490-9696 

 

PO Box 44736 

Washington, DC 20026-4736

 

 

On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 12:56:28 PM EDT, reporterllc via groups.io <reporterllc@...> wrote:

 

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

John Barry
 

Vic,

As you've heard, it depends . . .

But I can add two seemingly unusual sand shipments into Richmond California circa 1942.  In one, actually a large steady stream of cars, ATSF received locomotive sand on the Richmond Sand House trestle in SP GS gondolas.  You normally think of company material arriving in home road equipment. But the closest source was in Monterey on the SP. Monterey Sand Sources 

A few photos of the SP gons at the ATSF sand house in Richmond:




The other is Foundry Sand from upstate New York.  Coal to Newcastle you ask?  No, WWII had just cut off coastal shipping and a Richmond foundry had been getting a very specific sand for their molds from a source in New York, shipped in bulk.  When they found their transportation line cut, they turned to the railroads, only to object to the comparatively high cost of rail haulage.  They filed a rate case with the ICC and lost. 

 


John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Tuesday, June 16, 2020, 12:56:28 PM EDT, reporterllc via groups.io <reporterllc@...> wrote:


What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

steve_wintner
 

I'm pretty confident McMaster Carr has what you want, for a reasonable price.


Re: K4 Decals: Anyone Have Experience With These?

Dave Parker
 

Bob, search the archives.  Plenty of discussion of K4.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


K4 Decals: Anyone Have Experience With These?

Bob Chaparro
 

K4 Decals: Anyone Have Experience With These?

Someone recommended this decal company to me.

https://k4decals.com/

Comments?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Tim O'Connor
 


speaking of nice tools... Are there any good 2-56 tap drills out there for tapping steel? I've broken
my second Kadee 2-56 tap drill and with shipping buying a replacement set (includes other drill bits)
gets expensive... all I need is the tapered tap drill(s).




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Clark Propst
 

I'm good at passing blame :  )) Gene Green who transcribed the info from the M&StL's mechanical engineer's notes.
CW (wasn't me) Propst


Re: Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks Rupert. My list doesn’t include HT-3 and HT-4 so I need the information on those for my hopper roster. Here’s what I have. Will you provide the missing data?

 

Class                           Series                    Built          Type      Brake Truck

HC-1                           180000-180199     1940-48     70 ton                               Klasing                  National

                                    180200-180299     1943          70 ton                                                             National

                                    180300-180399     1945          70 ton                               Universal              Double truss

                                    184000-180499     1946          70 ton                                                             Double truss            

                                    180500-180649     1948          70 ton                               Universal              Double truss            

HC-1A                        180650-180849     1951          70 ton                                                             Double truss

                                    180850-181049     1952          70 ton                               Miner                    Double truss

HT-1                           190000-190499     1926          55 ton     Perfection or Ajax                        Dalman

HT-2                           190500-190999     1927-28     55 ton                                                             #48

HT-5                           192000-192249     1936          55 ton

                                    192250-192499     1937          55 ton

                                    192500-192599     1938          55 ton

HT-5A Steel               192600-192849     1940          55 ton

                                    192850-193049     1941          55 ton

                                    193100-193199     1945          55 ton                                                             National

HT-5A Composite      193500-193749     1942-44     50 ton    

HT-5B                         189000-189649     1945          55 ton

                                    189650-189999     1946          55 ton

HT-5C                         188000-188999     1947-48     55 ton

HT-7 Composite         193500-193749     1943          55 ton                               Ajax                      double truss

HT-8 Composite         194000-194399     1944          50 ton     Ajax or Miner                          ASF (#65A)

                                    194400-194999     1944          50 ton     Ajax or Miner                          National

HT-10                         170000-170449     1948-49     70 ton                                                             #70

HT-10A                       170500-171099     1951          70 ton                                                             #73B                       

                                    171100-171849     1953          70 tom                                                            #83                          

 

In addition to adding new information, please feel free to make any corrections to the data I compiled.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Rupert Gamlen
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

190000-191749 were twin hoppers in classes HT-1 to HT-4, built between 1926 and 1929 with an outside length of 35’ 1”.

190672 was an HT-2, built at Galesburg in 1927-8.

 

192000-193199 covered classes HT-5 and HT-5A built at Galesburg and Havelock between 1936 and 1945, basically identical to the earlier classes.
192362 was one of 300 built at Galesburg in 1936-7.

Rupert Gamlen


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Gerald Henriksen
 

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 14:41:31 -0500, you wrote:

Since Rapido is still in the early design phases they could add the X31b and gain a couple more road names and additional paint schemes.
They are long past the early design phase - tooling is almost
complete, samples hoped for by the end of the month (per the Rapido
Live event last Friday).

Someone did ask about the possibility of other roadnames like NP, to
which the response was if the X31A sold well then they would look into
tooling changes.

But it might also be worth mentioning that Rapido have said on these
live events that they are planning a lot more freight cars (from
various eras and regions) with probably another new one in the next
announcement, and then another in the following announcement (subject
to change of course).

So any good ideas/requests should be submitted to Rapido using the
form on their website, or try and get picked in a future Live session.


Union Refrigerator Transit Lines (URTX) 95503

Lester Breuer
 

I decided to add a couple of refrigerator cars to the fleet plus I wanted an easier build.  I have built the first of two Branchline Trains reefers .  If you are interested in the build of Union Refrigerator Transit Lines (URTX) 95503 including changes and addition of parts not in the kit.  Photos and writeup of the build process including painting and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

 

Lester Breuer

 

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