Date   

Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Andy Cich
 

A very good example of this is the recent Resin Car Works release of a SOO 50’ double door boxcar. These cars were built with the double doors centered to facilitate paper loading. Yet, the word AUTOMOBILE was on the side of the car when built.

 

Andy Cich

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

 

Bruce Smith wrote:



Note, that they can still be marked "AUTOMOBILES" as is one of the Rapido models. A number of these (X31A DD) cars were used in auto parts service. So, haul the completed product in X31 and X31C cars, haul the parts in X31A and X31B cars. 

 

   One more time: the notation "AUTOMOBILE" on a car did NOT mean, repeat, did NOT mean it was in auto parts or automobile service. It only meant it was a double-door box car, by AAR definition. Huge numbers of 40-ft. and 50-ft. double-door box cars on many railroads were so labeled and never carried an automobile or carton of auto parts, nor were intended to.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Note, that they can still be marked "AUTOMOBILES" as is one of the Rapido models. A number of these (X31A DD) cars were used in auto parts service. So, haul the completed product in X31 and X31C cars, haul the parts in X31A and X31B cars. 

   One more time: the notation "AUTOMOBILE" on a car did NOT mean, repeat, did NOT mean it was in auto parts or automobile service. It only meant it was a double-door box car, by AAR definition. Huge numbers of 40-ft. and 50-ft. double-door box cars on many railroads were so labeled and never carried an automobile or carton of auto parts, nor were intended to.

Tony Thompson




Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Bruce Smith
 

Guy,

That is correct. The Rapido double door cars are class X31A.  These are general service box cars with no automobile loaders and hence no tubes, fixtures or door markings. Note, that they can still be marked "AUTOMOBILES" as is one of the Rapido models. A number of these (X31A DD) cars were used in auto parts service. So, haul the completed product in X31 and X31C cars, haul the parts in X31A and X31B cars. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Guy Wilber via groups.io <guycwilber@...>
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO
 
Bruce Smith wrote:

"The X31B/C would need a new mold. Much easier to get X31s out of  the current mold with floor tubes and end fixtures (maybe an etched brass part?)"

Bruce,

Is it safe to assume that the original offerings of double door models will not be available with floor tubes and appropriate door markings?  

Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 


 


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Don DeLay
 

Here's one of my Red Caboose SP F-70-7's with lead shot glued underneath. 

Don DeLay


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Mont Switzer
 

Well Dennis, you got me there.  That will teach me to be a wise guy.  Mont 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Date: 6/17/20 11:31 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:58 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
(all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)
I donno Mont. It was well into the diesel era before the CSS&SB (South Shore) dieselized.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Rapido PRR X31A Boxcar in HO

Guy Wilber
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

"The X31B/C would need a new mold. Much easier to get X31s out of  the current mold with floor tubes and end fixtures (maybe an etched brass part?)"

Bruce,

Is it safe to assume that the original offerings of double door models will not be available with floor tubes and appropriate door markings?  

Thank You,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada 


 

_._,_._,_


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

I lived in Sewell, NJ, on the P-RSL in the 1950s and saw exactly the same thing.; sand in long gondolas. I don't remember any Reading hoppers. Sewell was on the line that passed through Vineland to Millville.

You could always tell if the train had stopped because there would be little piles of sand where it had leaked through any opening in the floor.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonits Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: Drew M. via groups.io <phillydrewcifer@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jun 16, 2020 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

The CNJ regularly hauled sand out of the Vineland, NJ and Millville, NJ areas in 52' gondolas. The sand was just piled in the car - CNJ employees would joke that SJ-2 looked like a rolling sandstorm. The RDG had a series of 2 bay offset side hoppers they assigned to the same area to haul sand on the PRSL.

Drew Marshall, Philly, PA

Modeling the pre-Depression years.

Sent from TypeApp
On Jun 16, 2020, at 12:56, "reporterllc via groups.io" <yahoo.com@groups.io target=_blank>reporterllc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Photo: Boxcar Underframe

Dennis Storzek
 

On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:16 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
https://digitallibrary.tulane.edu/islandora/object/tulane:327
This photo was bugging me as I can't ever recall seeing a draft gear like this, so I did some research. Turns out this is a pattented Commonwealth "Transom Draft Gear". The springing is contained in the body bolster. They are illustrated on page 510 of the 1922 CBC. It appears to be combined with a Commonwealth cast steel replacement underframe.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Schuyler Larrabee
 

What’s your question, Ed?  This thread has answered many of these questions.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of ed_mines via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

what about sand used to make concrete?

when I was a kid there were 2 abandoned sand quarries near my home where sand had been taken for building homes. One was filled with water and is now a park.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 05:58 AM, Mont Switzer wrote:
(all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)
I donno Mont. It was well into the diesel era before the CSS&SB (South Shore) dieselized.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

ed_mines
 

what about sand used to make concrete?

when I was a kid there were 2 abandoned sand quarries near my home where sand had been taken for building homes. One was filled with water and is now a park.


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Joseph Melhorn
 

I’ve had good luck with drill bits and hand taps from Drills and Cutters: https://drillsandcutters.com/hand-taps/

Take a look at the HSS Hand Taps. The drill bits I buy from them are the Jobber Drills (Standard Length), Black Oxide, Surface Treated, Standard Point,  by Qualtech.

Joe Melhorn

Sahuarita, AZ

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Mont Switzer
 

As long as everyone is weighing in on the transportation of various types of sand here goes.  The Monon had lot of sand on line near Lake Michigan at Michigan City, IN, known as the Indiana Sand Dunes.  Old photos show sand being shoveled into boxcars, destinations unknown.

 

Particularly interesting is how locomotive sand was handled at Monon, Indiana, up until about 1969.  The Monon  RR had a 3 stall engine house at Monon , IN, and kept 1 to 3 locomotives there at any given time.  The engine house was actually 4 stalls wide, but the second stall from the south did not have a track going into it.  Instead that was where a sand drying furnace was located.

 

Locomotive sand was hauled in in gondolas from Michigan City.  The gon was spotted inside the engine house on the first track to the south.  The sand was then shoveled into the drier as needed.  Dried sand was carried to the locomotives in buckets and dispensed into them.  

 

The Monon dieselized in 1946 and 1947, in the steam era for the purposes of this list.  (all railroads dieselized in the steam era I believe)  Most power was EMD and sand filler hatches were located on the sides of the F-3's and BL-2's about the same level as the cab floors.   A full length platform was therefore built on both sides of the northerly most engine house stall track which also had the inspection pit.  This allowed the bucket carrying hostler to walk up a set of steps and onto a platform to add sand to the locomotive being serviced.

 

Lots of hard work for a lot of years.  This system was only replaced when the engine house was torn down  and locomotive servicing moved closer to the station near downtown Monon.  Overhead sanding towers and hoses were installed at that time, well beyond the steam era.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Peter Ness [prness@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 8:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Peter Ness
 

For some time, the New Haven shipped sand in gondolas from Cape Cod in MA.  I think this lasted as long as there was freight service, but I’ve also thought the sand was only for use at NH locomotive terminals. I also don’t know anything about the business side – if there were sand dealers involved or it it was entirely a railroad operation.  From very early years there was demand for sand in the Cape Cod area as there was glass manufacturing and a few local foundries.

 

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 1:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: K4 Decals: Anyone Have Experience With These?

O Fenton Wells
 

I’ve got them but not used them yet. They look great
Feedback on this site seems to be mostly positive
Fenton 


On Jun 16, 2020, at 8:49 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

Bob, search the archives.  Plenty of discussion of K4.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Douglas Harding
 

Randy lots of sand pits in Iowa. The car was coming from Des Moines. Des Moines has two rivers, and lots of sand and gravel pits. I suspect the car was loaded in the Des Moines area. The bigger question is what was a NH 41’ gon doing in Iowa? It must have been off loaded in Des Moines, perhaps on the MSTL. Then loaded with sand and the MSTL took it to Dallas Center team track for the Highway Department. Des Moines did/does have a lot of manufacturing.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Randy Hammill
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 12:03 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Tony Thompson
 

Tom Birkett wrote:

Trying to determine if the AOX car ever delivered to the Santa Fe.

   Good question, Tom, but certainly not in the early days. SP was part owner and one might doubt they would want to sell to Santa Fe. But that all ended in the 1920s. Would be interesting to know who Santa Fe bought fuel from. By the 1930s, SP was very friendly with what became Chevron, but I've been told that whenever there was a disagreement about price, SP would buy from others until Chevron came around.

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Randy Hammill
 

The NH cars were 41' drop-bottom gondolas. 

Any idea where the sand was shipped from? I highly doubt it was loaded on the NH. There are no loads of sand shipping from CT in the 1950-1954 1% waybill study, although that doesn't mean that none at all shipped since that was only 1%. I don't have the data for RI or MA, so maybe from there. But that seems like a long trip for something like sand.

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Get real twist drills from a machinist’s supply (McMaster, MSC, Travers, etc.). For 2-56 screws you want a number 50 drill. Quality usually follows price. A 1st quality USA made drill will cost up to ten times what some imports sell for (Harbor Freight, etc.) … though some imports are of good quality. Most machinist’s supplies carry three or four quality/price options. Most all are better than typical “Hobby-Shop drills”.

By the way, the drills are NOT ’”tapered” … I assume you meant a “taper” tap, but these are quite unusual. The usual tap is a “Plug” type. It’s pretty much general purpose. The taper at the end is 4-5 threads long. A true “Taper” tap has a taper 8-10 threads long, and a “Bottoming” tap has a taper of only 2-3 threads. The tap drill for all is the same.  Again, a machinist’s supply will have all, and a lot of odd specialty taps too.

Dan Mitchell
==========



On Jun 16, 2020, at 9:47 PM, steve_wintner via groups.io <steve_wintner@...> wrote:

I'm pretty confident McMaster Carr has what you want, for a reasonable price.


Re: 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

And Tim, if you really want to spend more, but get incredible quality, you can always go to Starrett, just a little ways further out Route 2 . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of steve_wintner via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 9:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] 2-56 tap drill (was Re: UMM Tools)

 

I'm pretty confident McMaster Carr has what you want, for a reasonable price.

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