Date   

Re: Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bob and Tony
 
Great image. I do suspect it is "Dunbar Molasses and Syrup Company", not "Dunbar Molasses and Soap Company"
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

A undated photo from the Louisiana Digital Library

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A6627

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and then scroll on it.

The car number is illegible.

The ventilator appears to be a Bohn Standard Ventilator. In the few photos I've seen I've never seen this kind of ventilator propped open in this manner.

     Car number is indeed illegible but appears to be four digits, consistent with the pre-1917 car lettering.
      The huge fleet of Dunbar Molasses and Soap Company tank cars in the distance is pretty interesting too.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer - Cudahy 5177

Tony Thompson
 

Dave Parker wrote:

This is not really my bailiwick, but don't you have to make a distinction between what the packer could carry in their meat reefers, versus what the billboard adverting was touting?

        Most of the advertising was for the benefit of lessees, so for example a butter ad on the car likely meant that it was being used for that, or at least for a company that shipped butter among other things.

I have never tracked down the 1919 ICC ruling, but it doesn't seem that it was very cut-and-dried.  Or am I missing something?

    Not the ICC, it was the FTC. It ordered Armour out of the produce business, and they got out (selling most of the reefers to a new company called Fruit Growers Express).

Tony Thompson




Schoen and Pressed Steel early hoppers

David
 

Ahh, this is right up my alley. Notes and comments follow:

The initial contract to Schoen Pressed Steel was for 200 cars to Schoen's design (5501-5700) and 400 cars to Carnegie's design (5701-6100), with another 400 Schoen-design cars (6101-6500) added on later.
PB&LE 6501-8100 were followup orders of the Schoen 28-foot design in 1899-1901.

There were at least five primary variants of the Type 1 (fishbelly side sill) hopper:
28-foot inside length: PB&LE orders
29-foot inside length: P&LE 11900-11999, PMcK&Y 13500-13549, P&W 4000-4449 (to B&O 25550-25999)
30-foot inside length with 9'6" inside width: various orders
30-foot inside length with 8' 8.5" inside width: B&O N-8 44000-44999 (10'3 eaves height), B&O N-9 20000-23999, 120000-123999 (10'8" eaves height); Pittsburg and Buffalo Co. 1000-1019 (10'8" eaves height)
31'6" inside length: PRR class GL and copies

The Type 2 design can trace back to the five PRR class GM gondolas of 1898. Though not true hoppers, the side construction was similar in a number of ways.
Erie 49000-49999 may be the first PSC straight-sill hoppers, as period references describe other early orders for straight-sill hoppers as "Erie type".
C&A 25000-25009 were 31'6" inside length cars built by PSC circa 1901. These may be PPR class GL copies, or something else completely.

This is a list of the Type 2 cars that I compiled a while back from Eric Neubauer's Pressed Steel builder's list:

1000 Erie 49000-49999 2-3/00
 150 BR&P 14000-14149 00
 400 P&LE 10500-10899 00
 200 PMcK&Y 13550-13749 00
 150 WNY&P 10100-10249 5-9/00
 150 CLS&E 9301-9599o 00  to EJ&E ca 1914
 300 AS&W 1601-2199o 00  to N&SS
 100 DL&W 69900-69999 00
  25 P&RF 3001-3025 00 to MEC 2650-2674
1000 P&R 80000-80999 6-7/01
1000 CNJ 48000-48999 3/01  9'10eh
 150 C&A 25010-25159 01
1000 DL&W 72000-72999 8/02
 500 GT 73000-73499 7-8/03
1000 P&LE 10900-11899 04

   1 UP 11500 3/05 ACF lot 3290

 400 SP 90900-91299
 100 UP 11501-11600
 100 OSL 20601-20700
all Cambria Steel Car 3-5/07

 120 UP 11601-11720
  50 O&W 50000-50049 (Oregon & Washington) to OWR&N 60870-60919
all Cambria Steel Car 1909

 100 SPdeM 14036-14135 PSC 1910


These may be Type 2 hoppers, but I have no hard information:

  20 [PPGCo 101-120 00 PPGX]
  50 [RGW 1227-1276 00 to D&RG 18224-18271 ca 1914]
300 [OSL 6300-6599 11/00 to 20300-20599, 30294-30584]
  10 [ASSCo.14+ 01? American Sheet Trust; to AS&W?]
  70 [MACo 700+792 70 in 01? Michigan Alkali]
  10 [LI&SCo 200-209 01?  9'10eh]
  50 [USCo. 1-50 Union Steel Co. 01?]
  25 [P&RF 3026-3050 02 to MEC 2675-2699]
  20 [MACo 700+792 20 in 02? Michigan Alkali]
  20 [MACo 826-845 04]

David Thompson


Re: Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer - Cudahy 5177

Dave Parker
 

This is not really my bailiwick, but don't you have to make a distinction between what the packer could carry in their meat reefers, versus what the billboard adverting was touting?

In Chapter 3 of the Hendrickson and Kaminski billboard reefer book, there are a number of meat-packer cars advertising lard, butter, cheese, eggs and, yes, even Old Dutch Cleanser (in 1929 and 1932 photos of Cudahy cars).

I have never tracked down the 1919 ICC ruling, but it doesn't seem that it was very cut-and-dried.  Or am I missing something?
-
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Chet
 

Victor,

We pulled a lot of cars of sand out of a large pit at Forreston, IL and it was shipped in both hoppers and gons.   The sand was often wet which kept it from blowing.
In the early 1960's, when Interstate 80 was being built across Illinois, this pit provided both gravel and sand for the project.  There were two grades of gravel, A and B, and
sand.   The IC put on a pit job for a few summers and we would pull 60 to 70 loads out of the pit some days.  We had to line the up the cars; A, B, sand; A, B, sand; A. B, sand;
etc. for the concrete batch plant near Bloomington, IL.    The sand was in hoppers for this job. 

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer - Cudahy 5177

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer: Cudahy 5177

Well, sort of.

This is a photo of a Cudahy produce reefer, circa 1912 or earlier. At the time Cudahy, like most of the large meat packers, used their refrigerator cars to carry and distribute produce and other non-meat products in their refrigerator cars.

      That practice was almost entirely an Armour activity, though some of the other packers handled non-meat cargo, as this photo shows.

This was before anti-trust regulations and the Supreme Court forced the large meat packers to divest themselves of many non-meat product lines and properties.

      Actually, it was the Federal Trade Commission, not the Supreme Court, that ordered Armour out of the non-meat reefer business, in 1919. By that time, no other meat companies still were operating non-meat reefers.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

A undated photo from the Louisiana Digital Library

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A6627

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and then scroll on it.

The car number is illegible.

The ventilator appears to be a Bohn Standard Ventilator. In the few photos I've seen I've never seen this kind of ventilator propped open in this manner.

     Car number is indeed illegible but appears to be four digits, consistent with the pre-1917 car lettering.
      The huge fleet of Dunbar Molasses and Soap Company tank cars in the distance is pretty interesting too.

Tony Thompson




Re: Frank Ellington ACF Photos

Steve SANDIFER
 

I think some of it ended up in Temple at the Santa Fe Archives.  However, Frank was too generous in loaning stuff out, with many items never coming back. Contact Craig Order at <cordner@...> .

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 12:00 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Frank Ellington ACF Photos

 

Back in the 1990’s, I purchased some copies of ACF builder’s photos from Frank Ellington and have some fairly extensive listings of rolls (159) and frames of 35 mm negatives that he took of ACF builder’s photos.

 

I believe that he passed away in the last few years, but wonder if anyone on this list might know what happened to that collection?

 

Thanks, as always,

Steve Hile


Frank Ellington ACF Photos

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Back in the 1990’s, I purchased some copies of ACF builder’s photos from Frank Ellington and have some fairly extensive listings of rolls (159) and frames of 35 mm negatives that he took of ACF builder’s photos.

 

I believe that he passed away in the last few years, but wonder if anyone on this list might know what happened to that collection?

 

Thanks, as always,

Steve Hile


Re: What Is This Fellow Doing?

Douglas Harding
 

Jake I’m with you. Upon seeing the close up my first thought was an ink stamper.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jake Schaible
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 10:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What Is This Fellow Doing?

 

With this closer look, I'm not aware of any hand stapers / tacker that are that shape. 

Thinking the shape of it looks more like a self inking inspection stamper?


Re: What Is This Fellow Doing?

Jake Schaible
 

With this closer look, I'm not aware of any hand stapers / tacker that are that shape. 

Thinking the shape of it looks more like a self inking inspection stamper?


Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer - Cudahy 5177

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer: Cudahy 5177

Well, sort of.

This is a photo of a Cudahy produce reefer, circa 1912 or earlier. At the time Cudahy, like most of the large meat packers, used their refrigerator cars to carry and distribute produce and other non-meat products in their refrigerator cars. This was before anti-trust regulations and the Supreme Court forced the large meat packers to divest themselves of many non-meat product lines and properties.

Cudahy had a number of reporting marks so I am not sure what marks would have appeared on this car.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

A undated photo from the Louisiana Digital Library

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A6627

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and then scroll on it.

The car number is illegible.

The ventilator appears to be a Bohn Standard Ventilator. In the few photos I've seen I've never seen this kind of ventilator propped open in this manner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Schoen and Pressed Steel early hoppers

Eric Hansmann
 

A new freight car review is available. It covers the Schoen and Pressed Steel early hopper car production. Here's a link to the blog post announcement.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Bob Chaparro
 

Andy -
Were these covered hoppers or open hoppers?
What about gondolas?
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Boxed Automobiles On Flatcars

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

Coming in on this late. I just finally panned all the way to the far end of the string of cars, and adjacent to the track is a fire hose house, and interestingly, the hydrant identification number is stenciled in a diamond that mirrors the diamonds surrounding the B&W stenciled on the boxes.

I also note the spur is right up against the Chicago North Shore & Milwaukee (maybe still the Chicago & Milwaukee Electric Ry. at that time) main line; I can see two overhead wires in the background. That certainly proves this is Kenosha.

Dennis Storzek


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

Tim O'Connor
 


Or you could use clear acrylic (e.g. Future) as an initial 'adhesive' that will harden (and self level) over 24 hrs and then
touch the edges with MEK for capillary action that fixes it permanently in place. :-)


On 6/19/2020 1:11 PM, Curt Fortenberry wrote:
If you emboss rivets in thin styrene sheets, an old plastic modelers
trick is to fill the dimples with putty.  that way you stand less
chance of disturbing them with solvent.

Curt Fortenberry

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: C&O Burro Crane Photos

Larry Buell
 

On the Santa Fe, for a time, each road master had a Burro Crane that would remain on their territory all year.  Very handy for unloading track materials or picking up scrap or laying turnouts.  My Burro Crane had a rail clamp and a magnet.  I remember Model 15’s, Model 30’s (which I operated as a management trainee), Model 40’s and the hydraulic Model 50’s. The Model 50’s were used on system extra gangs (e.g. steel gangs).  We even unloaded signal houses as a favor to the Signal Dept. in Topeka/Lawrence area.

Buell


Re: PRR X31A facts you want to know

John Barry
 

Brother also makes one.  The tape is available in 6, 9, 12, 18 and 24 mm widths.  Another adaptive use for the product I use to label the drawers containing the layout supplies like turnouts, bridge kits, and trucks.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, June 19, 2020, 09:45:15 AM EDT, Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...> wrote:


Tim O'Connor wrote: 
"Method #5 - plastic self adhesive tape from an electronic label maker - easier to apply than
the bare metal foil and can be stretched a little if necessary. Easily cut into shapes (gusset plates, etc.)"

Chuck Cover asked:
"Can you give us more information on this product?  I am not sure what you are describing."

Here's an example - Dymo sells a similar product for their label makers:

This isn't the old thick embossed label stock for the manual hand-held label makers - this is a peel-and-stick printable tape.  It works nicely - here's a Walthers (ex-Train Miniature) Class X29 boxcar that has patch panels made from this material.  It was a bit difficult getting it over the large rivets of the old model, but I do like the effect more than decals (which tend to disappear under the paint) and Bare-Metal Foil (which I find to be too subtle).


Ben Hom
   


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Steve and Barb Hile
 

So, it would seem that shot plus powder might yield the greatest weight load for a given volume.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 2:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

 

Ted Culotta wrote:



I may be misunderstanding, Tony, but your calculation is "unfettered" whereas if you have a finite space to fill and you use larger rather than smaller "chunks" then you can't get as many in the finite space. I'll fit a pulverized sugar cube between center sills a lot more effectively than I will a solid sugar cube of the same volume. 

 

      Yes, obviously a space that can't take an integral number of large spheres will not fit this calculation. But if you choose any size sphere, for a space where they fit "end to end" as well as "side to side," the calculation of the empty volume is independent of sphere size.

       Obviously if your sugar cube won't fit between the sills at all, then your argument is easily successful <g>. Note also that mixing sizes of the "bits" means that little ones can fill between the large ones, and the calculation for uniform spheres doesn't apply. 

        But we were talking about lead shot, which if small compared to the space to be filled certainly does match my calculation.

Tony Thompson

 

 

 

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