Date   

More Burro Cranes

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Since we're discussing Burro cranes, I offer five more cranes for you to contemplate. I think these are all the rest that I have, certainly all that I have in digitized format.

Buckingham Branch Railroad no #. This one looks like a Model 30, and was probably derelict when I found it. Photographed at Dillwyn, Virginia.

Buckingham Branch Railroad no #. This is probably a Model 40. Note how the boom folds. Also at Dillwyn, Virginia.

Western Pacific no #. According to diagrams I have, the Western Pacific owned three Model 15s: B64, B65 and B66.. This was found in Stockton, California. Note the very interesting wheeled crane behind the Burro.

Western Pacific no #. I only have a partial shot of this crane at Oakland, but it seems to also be a Model 15. The boxcar was the real object of my interest.

Union Pacific BC-25, at Glenwood Springs (shot through an Amtrak window, sorry). This might be an ex-D&RGW machine.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


LIFE LINE OF THE NATION AMERICAN RAILROADS IN WWII Carl Dudley 70892

Paul Doggett
 

Plenty of freight cars on this film
Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

https://youtu.be/THN9x1FNahQ


Re: Oxide red

Jim Hayes
 

I do most of my on-line shopping at Burbank Hobby. Their Vallajo paint is also $2.99. I use only Vallejo so I can use my spray booth inside with just an open window. My spray booth does have a good filter and exhaust fan.
By the way, I'm looking for a CP boxcar red, not CN.

Jim


Re: Oxide red

Ken Adams
 

I am not too sure about some of the equivalent colors indicated in the MRH Acrylic guide. Some do not agree with what I see when I actually use the paint.  Also Vallejo is introducing new colors all the time. The 70.814 Burnt Red seems to be a recent addition (at least with an English color name) I now use as a reasonable brushable substitute for TruColor 211  SP Freight Car Red 1940-1960 and Star Brand SP-UP Freight Car Red. A gloss coat of Future over the matte of Model Color application really shows how close they are.   Vallejo color charts don't seem too accurate in my browser's rendering so I have to guess and experiment a bit.

If you have to buy Vallejo mail order from Amazon, it can be much quite expensive. I found Sprue Brothers to be a better price at  USD 2.99 for most bottles. Factor in shipping charges and I don't know what would be charged shipped to Canada.

I don't airbrush so I use the Vallejo Model Color line a lot. Properly hand brushed on a primed surface it is as good a finish as I used to get with an airbrush. In addition to the basic Model Color line ( the 70.nnn series) there are other specialty lines such as Panzer Aces that have a log of good colors for weathering and building colors in addition to military modeling. I wound up buying a lot of 71.080 Model Air Rust color when Micro-mark was selling it as Freight Car Red. I haven't used it except as a hand brush on rust wash for weathering.

Have you looked at the Tamiya rattle can reds. Their Oxide Red Fine Primer works as the right color for a finish coat of FCR for some railroads.  You might also look at their rattle can Red-Brown and Dull Red colors. Their cans have a very fine spray and the paint properly applied will equal an airbrush look.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: Oxide red

Jim Hayes
 

While we're talking Vallejo, can anyone recommend a Valejo paint for Canadian boxcar red?

Jim


Re: silver SAL box cars

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jun 20, 2020, at 8:16 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

I'm sure there is someone on the list who can tell me when Seaboard starting painting some box cars silver, such as the Kadee PS-1 that is out there (could be after the time frame of this list). I would appreciate the help.

Tony,
I don’t know the earliest date when the silver paint began use. All I have to go by is a color photo of S.A.L. 25348 painted silver with red stencils done at JAX. 9-59. Hope this helps. 
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


silver SAL box cars

Tony Thompson
 

I'm sure there is someone on the list who can tell me when Seaboard starting painting some box cars silver, such as the Kadee PS-1 that is out there (could be after the time frame of this list). I would appreciate the help.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Oxide red

Brian Carlson
 

The MRH paint mapping guide suggests Vallejo Scarlet Red 72.712 for floquil oxide red.

Scarlet red looks very very red. Has anyone actually used this color and can offer an opinion before I buy a bottle.

Brian J. Carlson


Re: Photo: Vegetarian Meat Reefer - Cudahy 5177

Bob Chaparro
 

Roger Hinman commented,

"Not all Cudahy’s were the same company which adds to the confusion.  The largest of them was the Cudahy Packing Co in South Omaha and later many locations. They also had the Cudahy tank line and produce line when listed.   Cudahy Milw Rfg Line was run by Cudahy Brothers in Milwaukee, later Cudahy, WI. Their brothers ran the larger business in So Omaha.

And then there are various small efforts made by John Cudahy who was a part owner of the Milwaukee company but also had some of his own private ventures. My suspicion is the car shown in the Union Fibre book has CRL reporting marks. The Old Dutch Cleanser was a trademark of the Cudahy Packing Company."


Re: C&O Burro Crane Photos

mofwcaboose <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
 

Small four-wheeled cranes dated back to 1883 in the US (1859 in England) and were always a part of the Industrial Works line, but these were all steam cranes.

Cullen-Friestedt introduced the Burro Crane around 1921. The first cranes looked like little stiff-leg derricks on four-wheeled flat cars. They were gas-powered and could lift 2½ tons. The first full-revolving ones were introduced around 1929. The type has been steadily improved since then The current model 6000 is no longer rail-mounted except on retractable railroad wheels when needed.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


-----Original Message-----
From: A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...>
To: mofwcaboose via groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 4:38 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O Burro Crane Photos

When were burro cranes or their like first introduced?

Dave Bott

Friday, June 19, 2020, 11:04:26 AM, you wrote:


Locomotive cranes  were found on the C&O, though apparently not in the numbers seen on some other railroads. In contrast to the meticulous  listing of C&O's wreckers, data on smaller cranes is very scattered and hard to find.

I personally only photographed one  crane; RC-24, an Industrial Works/Industrial Brownhoist Model N of at least 60 tons capacity used for bridge work.

Burro cranes are a special case. They are usually numbered in with the track machines (such as tampers, spike drivers, etc.), and the numbers  tend to be scattered all over. Lifting capacities are tied to the  model number, which can be found cast into the rear of the cab, under the trade name "Burro". For example. a Model 30 is good for 7½ tons.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL



---Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 10:39 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O Burro Crane Photos

Friends,

Today I'm sharing six photos of C&O Burro cranes. All these photos were taken in the 1980s or 1990s, most at Charlottesville, but two views are of the same crane at Gladstone (front and rear). I don't know for certain when these cranes were built, but I suspect that most date from the 1950s and so are within our timeframe.

Strangely, I've never seen any bigger C&O cranes, though they certainly had some large machines. I would not be surprised if there is/was one stationed at Clifton Forge, and possibly another at Newport News or Richmond.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  閭



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC

--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

Dave Parker
 

I am not an expert in lead toxicology, but I used to work with people who are.  If you are using lead flashing (or shot) to weight freight cars, the needed safety precautions are minimal:

-  keep your hands out of your mouth
-  wash them when done (or wear disposable gloves)
-  don't sand it so as to create dust

Acute toxicity, and dermal exposure, are primarily a  concern with organo-lead compounds (like tetraethyl-lead in gasoline).

The long-term chronic effects of inorganic lead ingestion are much more significant in young children who are still developing cognitively.  Most of us here are well past that part of the brain development curve.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Archive for Rail Model Craftsman?

Rich C
 

No problem. Did you actually find that kit? I had all 4 of those early kits. The resin was really bad. The way he cast roofs makes the roof trash fodder! I gave up on mine when SnT 2014 rolled around and scrapped them all and bought castings from Greg and Chad. The best decals for the y/g CMO car are from Mask Island.

On Saturday, June 20, 2020, 04:08:34 PM CDT, Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:


Never mind. My kit is for the CGW and none of them got the yellow/green scheme. Only CMO cars did.
Sorry for your work.

    JimH


Re: C&O Burro Crane Photos

Bruce Smith
 

It is just amazing to me what a Google search of "Burro Crane History" can find!

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
In 1990, Burro Crane Inc., then a subsidiary of Avis Industrial Corporation, moved from its Chicago facility to subsidiary, Badger, which acquired the Burro 40 & 45. Burro Crane was a sister company at the time. In 1997, Badger produced the last Burro Model 40 crane.
moablive.com



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...>
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 3:38 PM
To: mofwcaboose via groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O Burro Crane Photos
 
When were burro cranes or their like first introduced?

Dave Bott

Friday, June 19, 2020, 11:04:26 AM, you wrote:


Locomotive cranes  were found on the C&O, though apparently not in the numbers seen on some other railroads. In contrast to the meticulous  listing of C&O's wreckers, data on smaller cranes is very scattered and hard to find.

I personally only photographed one  crane; RC-24, an Industrial Works/Industrial Brownhoist Model N of at least 60 tons capacity used for bridge work.

Burro cranes are a special case. They are usually numbered in with the track machines (such as tampers, spike drivers, etc.), and the numbers  tend to be scattered all over. Lifting capacities are tied to the  model number, which can be found cast into the rear of the cab, under the trade name "Burro". For example. a Model 30 is good for 7½ tons.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL





Re: Archive for Rail Model Craftsman?

Jim Hayes
 

Never mind. My kit is for the CGW and none of them got the yellow/green scheme. Only CMO cars did.
Sorry for your work.

    JimH


Re: Archive for Rail Model Craftsman?

Jim Hayes
 

Ah ha! The muddy pictures I have are CMO.

JimH


Re: C&O Burro Crane Photos

A&Y Dave in MD
 

When were burro cranes or their like first introduced?

Dave Bott

Friday, June 19, 2020, 11:04:26 AM, you wrote:


Locomotive cranes  were found on the C&O, though apparently not in the numbers seen on some other railroads. In contrast to the meticulous  listing of C&O's wreckers, data on smaller cranes is very scattered and hard to find.

I personally only photographed one  crane; RC-24, an Industrial Works/Industrial Brownhoist Model N of at least 60 tons capacity used for bridge work.

Burro cranes are a special case. They are usually numbered in with the track machines (such as tampers, spike drivers, etc.), and the numbers  tend to be scattered all over. Lifting capacities are tied to the  model number, which can be found cast into the rear of the cab, under the trade name "Burro". For example. a Model 30 is good for 7½ tons.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL



---Original Message-----
From: Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 18, 2020 10:39 am
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O Burro Crane Photos

Friends,

Today I'm sharing six photos of C&O Burro cranes. All these photos were taken in the 1980s or 1990s, most at Charlottesville, but two views are of the same crane at Gladstone (front and rear). I don't know for certain when these cranes were built, but I suspect that most date from the 1950s and so are within our timeframe.

Strangely, I've never seen any bigger C&O cranes, though they certainly had some large machines. I would not be surprised if there is/was one stationed at Clifton Forge, and possibly another at Newport News or Richmond.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  閭



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: What methods do you use to add weight to an empty flatcar?

A&Y Dave in MD
 

I must say I love the debate.  It is like theoretical vs empirical physics...

I think I like the idea of cutting to width and gluing lead strips in the center of a side sill best so far for simplicity and for time to complete. Only concern is "safety" of lead vs tungsten.

I could see how powdered tungsten applied and glued in thin layers could also work, but might take longer and be more tedious.

Just remember the goal is to provide a weight to the steam era freight car that is sufficient for reliable operations purposes (since a static model's weight wouldn't matter).  Theoretical maximums may not even be necessary.

Reminds me of the new engineering intern who provided detailed analyses that showed heating plant X to be the most thermodynamically and cost efficient to replace the old system.  And then the seasoned engineer pointed out that the physical dimensions of that theoretically best unit were about 30% greater than any known access point into the building.  Gotta keep the ultimate goal in mind.  Of course some find noodling on the ideas a hobby in and of itself!

Having fun...

Dave

--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
--
____________________________
David Bott, modeling the A&Y in '34


Re: Archive for Rail Model Craftsman?

Kenneth Montero
 

Jim,

I have that magazine, but I did not see anything in there regarding a C&NW boxcar in the yellow/green scheme. I searched the table of contents, the index, and did a page-by-page search - and found nothing. The Sunshine listing in HO Scale Products News was for a flatcar and lumber loads.

Please re-check the note to see if it could be some other RMC issue.

Ken Montero




On June 20, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

Is there an archie for RMC? I have a Sunshine kit #2.1 for a C&NW boxcar in the yellow/green scheme.
There's a note written inside o see an article in the Sept. 1994 RMC and I'd like to see it.

    JimH

 


Archive for Rail Model Craftsman?

Jim Hayes
 

Is there an archie for RMC? I have a Sunshine kit #2.1 for a C&NW boxcar in the yellow/green scheme.
There's a note written inside o see an article in the Sept. 1994 RMC and I'd like to see it.

    JimH


Re: Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bob and Tony
 
Great image. I do suspect it is "Dunbar Molasses and Syrup Company", not "Dunbar Molasses and Soap Company"
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: PFE Reefer With Ventilator Hood Propped Open

A undated photo from the Louisiana Digital Library

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A6627

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and then scroll on it.

The car number is illegible.

The ventilator appears to be a Bohn Standard Ventilator. In the few photos I've seen I've never seen this kind of ventilator propped open in this manner.

     Car number is indeed illegible but appears to be four digits, consistent with the pre-1917 car lettering.
      The huge fleet of Dunbar Molasses and Soap Company tank cars in the distance is pretty interesting too.

Tony Thompson



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