Date   

Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Ken,

You are correct. AFAIK, CONOCO did not have operations in California. I have Richard's February 1998 article before me. He says "In the 1940s and '50s, most Conoco cars were painted aluminum with black underframes, bottom sheets and lettering," and " . . . Continental Oil Company's Conoco was a mountain and plains states brand."

I would go with SHPX as your best bet for a repaint. GATX and UTLX did have some 8K Type 21 tanks acquired second-hand, but they must have been rare. Richard's article shows one of each. You might also consider SCCX, Shell on the West Coast. 

Hope this is of help.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:38 PM Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:
I picked up a slightly damaged (handrail busted) Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car at my Local Hobby Shop (open by appointment and you must wear a mask) from the used shelf. The paint scheme is a silver CONOCO.  First, is this a foobie as a CONOCO car and if not what years would the silver paint scheme cover? 

I am interested in adding this as at least one ACF Type 21 uninsulated car to my growing line of tank cars to be shuttled around the small yard of my early 1950's Port Costa, California layout. I acquired several of the insulated Type 21 CDLX cars as unsold from the NMRA 2011 National Convention a few years back. 

I have done a search on this groups pages to see if there is any relevant information. I have been trying to open the Train Life copy of the February 1998 Rail Model Journal for Richard Hendrickson's article on Type 21's but after 60 minutes only 3 pages of that article have appeared. One page that did downloaded indicated that CONOCO tank cars would be used mostly in the Colorado, Texas and eastern high plains states. If so a CONOCO car might not be appropriate sitting in a California Bay Area yard for any period of time. None of the research thus far has really answered my questions.

I understand there is also an article on replacing the easily broken handrails with metal rails in another RMJ article.  I do have hypodermic needle tube on hand. Unfortunately my recent experience with PSC cast brass handrails has not been very good (difficult to drill out rail holes) but I have several Tichy tank car detailing sets with stanchions on hand to try next. 

As I have to replace the handrails, repainting is not out of the question to another black painted leasing/operating company scheme. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

earlyrail
 

Well in the Oct 1923 ORER he Southern had 24 SP (Poultry) cars
series 44875 - 44899
I recall that one of the northeastern roads had a few, but can not locate then on a quick seatch

Howard Garner


CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Ken Adams
 

I picked up a slightly damaged (handrail busted) Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car at my Local Hobby Shop (open by appointment and you must wear a mask) from the used shelf. The paint scheme is a silver CONOCO.  First, is this a foobie as a CONOCO car and if not what years would the silver paint scheme cover? 

I am interested in adding this as at least one ACF Type 21 uninsulated car to my growing line of tank cars to be shuttled around the small yard of my early 1950's Port Costa, California layout. I acquired several of the insulated Type 21 CDLX cars as unsold from the NMRA 2011 National Convention a few years back. 

I have done a search on this groups pages to see if there is any relevant information. I have been trying to open the Train Life copy of the February 1998 Rail Model Journal for Richard Hendrickson's article on Type 21's but after 60 minutes only 3 pages of that article have appeared. One page that did downloaded indicated that CONOCO tank cars would be used mostly in the Colorado, Texas and eastern high plains states. If so a CONOCO car might not be appropriate sitting in a California Bay Area yard for any period of time. None of the research thus far has really answered my questions.

I understand there is also an article on replacing the easily broken handrails with metal rails in another RMJ article.  I do have hypodermic needle tube on hand. Unfortunately my recent experience with PSC cast brass handrails has not been very good (difficult to drill out rail holes) but I have several Tichy tank car detailing sets with stanchions on hand to try next. 

As I have to replace the handrails, repainting is not out of the question to another black painted leasing/operating company scheme. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: 1950s model manufacturers - was Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 07:08 AM, Peter Ness wrote:

Revell – they also made structure kits and (my opinion) to this day have the finest styrene brick wall molding detail around (roundhouse, bakery and print shop kits).  I recall reading about the kit die-maker (or designer?) years ago.  His name was Armitage and he wrote a short booklet on working with styrene which is still available today (newer edition, from PSC)

That would be Al Armitage, the "dean of styrene". With that booklet he singlehandedly changed the course of scratchbuilding (and pattern making) in our hobby. As to the Revell engine house/bakery/print shop, that was cast tooling. The brickwork has so much character because every single one of those scale size bricks was placed in the pattern by hand.


 

To keep this within STMFC content; It’s amazing (to me) that “back in the day” some manufacturers really made such a top effort to produce both accurate and detailed freight car kits working with the available technology. The first wood freight car kit I built was a Silver Streak 36’ Wood New Haven box car. The car tuned out very nicely (my opinion) and had I used todays available detail parts (brake wheel, housing, car ends, underbody parts, stirrup steps, NBW castings, etc.) and appropriate wire for grab irons instead of what came with the kit, I think it would still stand up with many of today’s offerings.

The problem I've always had with the old wood craftsman kits was the maker's insistence on using Northeastern scribed wood for the car siding, the stuff with the inch wide gaps for board grooves. The hobby didn't get a decent representation of V groove siding until Evergreen came out with their scribed sheet in the late seventies.

Dennis Storzek

 

 


Re: Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

Jake Schaible
 

Just so happens I have a Dec '24 ORER hard copy, but unsure the best way to find what you are looking for - short of going through the entire book page by page.  Bought it some time back, but have since shifted my layout era to Spring of '27 so don't need or use it.  It's available for sale, if interested.  (Loose & chip cover, but binding otherwise tight and pages are great and flexible.) 

-J


Re: SP F-70-7 image

 

Thanks Garth. Probably needed to see a more overhead shot to be able to see the cradle shape. Could coils be loaded the full length of the cradle?
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

Ian Cranstone
 

On Jun 26, 2020, at 12:50 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars
According to the book, Car Shop Practice, from the Board of Railway Mechanical Officials and the Railway Training Institute (published in 1925), there were 24 railroad-owned poultry cars in service in 1924.
Does anyone have a 1924 ORER that would tell us which railroads owned these poultry cars?
Four poultry cars were listed by Canadian roads in 1924, apparently all converted from other cars circa 1923:

CN 149900-149901
CP 259000-259001

CP would add four more cars in the mid-1930s (CP 259100-259103, which were renumbered 272200-272203 in 1947).

Ian CranstoneOsgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net


Re: Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

I am tied up for the weekend, but I remember Southern was one of them. I seem to remember that plans for theirs were published in one of the Freight Car cyclopedias.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

 

Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

According to the book, Car Shop Practice, from the Board of Railway Mechanical Officials and the Railway Training Institute (published in 1925), there were 24 railroad-owned poultry cars in service in 1924.

Does anyone have a 1924 ORER that would tell us which railroads owned these poultry cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Railroad-Owned Poultry Cars

According to the book, Car Shop Practice, from the Board of Railway Mechanical Officials and the Railway Training Institute (published in 1925), there were 24 railroad-owned poultry cars in service in 1924.

Does anyone have a 1924 ORER that would tell us which railroads owned these poultry cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

I don’t know if they made it into the 1950s, but here’s one to add to the list of California manufacturers:

Pomona Valley Model Supply, Inc.    107 East Main Street    Puente, California   

They were makers of O Scale passenger cars and locomotives.   There is likely some tie-in to Minton Cronkite who was the creator of the original Q Scale railroad at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago and exhibition layouts for the AT&SF.  

They had models of the CB&Q E5 and Shovelnose units that were great even by today’s standards.

Another O Scale company:

Lobaugh Model Trains began business in 1931, founded by Rollin J. Lobaugh (1895 - 1965), in San Francisco, California

 

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Frank Pearsall
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

 

Bob:

 

I have some updated information on Blue Line, Cliff Line and Don Fowler if you’re interested. Reply off list. Thank you.

 

Frank Pearsall

Brevard, N.C.



On Jun 25, 2020, at 7:29 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

I've had discussions with several people who are/were model railroad manufacturers and asked them about their fellow model railroad manufacturers who were in Southern California in the 1950s. This was golden age locally with many firms located in the area.

I learned in those days long past the manufacturers were somewhat of a fraternity who frequently met socially (usually monthly) to discuss the hobby and product plans.

Sometimes they traded product lines that were either in development or on the market. 

I started to compile a list of Southern California manufacturers from the decade of the 1950s. The current list is below. It is based on advertisements placed in Model Railroader in the 1950 through 1959 January issues plus interviews with folks who were still alive to confirm details.

One point I will mention is how to pronounce the name "Suydam". I learned from the son of one of the company founders that it is pronounced "So Damn", as in "It is so damn hot outside".

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

 

Company

Primary Products

City

Original Owner(s)

Subsequent Owner(s)

 

 

 

 

 

A.C.I.

Locomotive

Long Beach

 

 

Ace Products

Roadbed

Pasadena

 

 

Art Fleming Models

Grab Irons, Car Kits

Studio City

 

 

Athearn

O & HO Models

Los Angeles

Irvin R. Athearn

 

Ayres Models

Structures

Garden Grove

Thomas Ayres

 

Baumgarten

Track Cleaner

Santa Barbara

 

 

Beemax Plastics

Structures

Los Angeles

 

 

Bert Welch Co.

Trees & Bushes

Los Angeles

 

 

Bill Johnson Model Trains

O Scale Passenger Cars

Long Beach

 

 

Binkley Models

HO, HOn3 Kits

Inglewood

 

 

Blue Line Products

Passenger Cars

Spring Valley

 

 

Bowser

Steam Loco & Parts

Redlands

 

Lewis English (1961)

Boxcar Ken

Rail

Los Angeles

 

 

Budd Model Co.

Steam Loco Parts

Sherman Oaks

 

 

C. J. Ulrich

Track Cleaner, Signals

North Hollywood

Charles J. Ulrich

 

Central Valley

Trucks, Car Kits

North Hollywood

George Hook

Jack Parker, Jeff Parker

Champion Model Co.

Decals

North Hollywood

 

 

Cliff Line

Caboose Kit

North Hollywood

 

 

Devore

O & HO Couplers

South Pasadena

 

 

Don Fowler Co.

Semaphore, Crossing Gate, Wig-Wag

Los Angeles

 

 

E. Suydam & Co.

Structures

Pasadena, Duarte

Edward C. Suydam, Douglas R. Suydam

 

Electronic Sales Co.

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

G. L. Electronics

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

Globe

 

 

 

 

Hi-Ballers Corp.

Link & Pin Couplers, Car Kits

Burbank

 

 

Joseph B. Maier

Live Steam Loco Plans

Pacoima

 

 

Kadee

Couplers

Reseda

Dale Edwards

 

Kurtz-Kraft Models Co.

Signals,Switch Machines, Car Kits, Parts

Long Beach, Tarzana

Albert Kurtz, Jr.

 

KWR, Inc.

Locomotives

Los Angeles

 

 

Lindsay Products, Inc.

Locomotives, Motors, Spiker

Culver City

Robert Lindsay

 

Little Engines

Live Steam Loco & Parts

Lomita

 

 

Mod-Ac Mfg. Co.

Hansom Cab

Los Angeles

 

 

Model Builder's Supply Co.

Hot Metal Car, Water Tank

Duarte

 

 

Model Die Casting

Couplers, Handcars, Paint

Los Angeles

Clarence Mentier

 

Model Engineering Works

O & HO Parts, Kits

Monrovia

Richard Wheeler

 

Model Toy Mfg. Co.

Structures

Burbank

 

 

Modelcraft Printing Services

Doors, Windows

Pasadena

 

 

Models & Miniatures Specialties

Scenery Supplies

San Dimas

 

 

Modelton

Structures, Billboard Posters

Burbank

 

 

Moyes J. Murphy

Power Supplies

Arcadia

 

 

Olson-Spencer

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Pacific Design & Development Co.

Motors

El Segundo

 

 

Pactra Chemical Co.

Paint

Los Angeles

 

 

Revell

Train Sets

Hollywood

Lewis H. Glaser

 

Robico

O & HO Locomotive, Cars

Universal City

 

 

Rollins House Miniatures

Detail Parts

Covina, Cucamonga

 

 

Silver Streak Corp.

Car Kits

Los Angeles

 

 

Standard Wire & Cable

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Culver City

 

 

Stewart-Lundahl Co.

Paint (310M)

North Hollywood

 

Ulrich?

Town-Craft Models

O & HO Structures

Hermosa Beach

 

 

Tru-Scale

Track & Roadbed

San Dimas

August A. Kniff

Cliff Meistel

W. H. Olson

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Wesley Mfg. Co.

Cannonball Products, Ore Cars

Van Nuys

 

 

Western Narrow Gauge Model Shop

Track Gauge

Inglewood

 

 

Zenith Model Co.

Power Supplies

Los Angeles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clover Custom Decals

Decals

Santa Monica

 

 

Silver Streak (Truce Scale))

Car Kits

San Dimas

 

 

K & O Models

Locomotive, Power Pack

Van Nuys

 

 

G. F. Harbin

Reostat

San Dimas

 

 

Gaylord Products

Power Supplies, Controls

Van Nuys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wright Enterprises/MHP

 

Thousand Oaks

Dick Wright

 

 

 

1950 Champ decals in North Hollywood, 1951 Champion Decal Co. in Fresno, 1959 in San Jose

1950 Kurtz-Kraft in Burlingame, 1953 in Long Beach, 1955 in Oroville

Olson-Spencer probably same as W. H. Olson

1958 Weston Mini-Figure Co. in Healdsburg

1959 Clover Decals in  Santa Rosa

1959 Cal-Scale in Pinedale

 

 

 


Re: Placard: Concentrated Floor Loading

mopacfirst
 

Now I get it.  This placard is not for use for the company doing the loading, unless they had contacted the LV about advice on the load and the railroad sent them this placard to attach along with whatever else was attached, or the LV carmen themselves attached this placard after the car was picked up.

The placard is for the advice of any train or switch crew handling this car, up to the point of spotting it at the receiver's dock, to be careful with it in order to avoid heavy switching causing the load to displace and possibly collapsing or destabilizing the car.

Ron Merrick


Re: Placard: Concentrated Floor Loading

Stic Harris
 

Appreciated Bob.

Thank you!

Stic

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:53 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
I contacted the seller on e-Bay.
The size is 8" x 4".
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA



--


- Stic


Re: Placard: Concentrated Floor Loading

Bob Chaparro
 

I contacted the seller on e-Bay.
The size is 8" x 4".
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Frank Pearsall
 

Bob:

I have some updated information on Blue Line, Cliff Line and Don Fowler if you’re interested. Reply off list. Thank you.

Frank Pearsall
Brevard, N.C.

On Jun 25, 2020, at 7:29 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers
I've had discussions with several people who are/were model railroad manufacturers and asked them about their fellow model railroad manufacturers who were in Southern California in the 1950s. This was golden age locally with many firms located in the area.
I learned in those days long past the manufacturers were somewhat of a fraternity who frequently met socially (usually monthly) to discuss the hobby and product plans.
Sometimes they traded product lines that were either in development or on the market.  
I started to compile a list of Southern California manufacturers from the decade of the 1950s. The current list is below. It is based on advertisements placed in Model Railroader in the 1950 through 1959 January issues plus interviews with folks who were still alive to confirm details.
One point I will mention is how to pronounce the name "Suydam". I learned from the son of one of the company founders that it is pronounced "So Damn", as in "It is so damn hot outside".
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
++++
1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

 

Company

Primary Products

City

Original Owner(s)

Subsequent Owner(s)

 
 
 
 
 

A.C.I.

Locomotive

Long Beach

 
 

Ace Products

Roadbed

Pasadena

 
 

Art Fleming Models

Grab Irons, Car Kits

Studio City

 
 

Athearn

O & HO Models

Los Angeles

Irvin R. Athearn

 

Ayres Models

Structures

Garden Grove

Thomas Ayres

 

Baumgarten

Track Cleaner

Santa Barbara

 
 

Beemax Plastics

Structures

Los Angeles

 
 

Bert Welch Co.

Trees & Bushes

Los Angeles

 
 

Bill Johnson Model Trains

O Scale Passenger Cars

Long Beach

 
 

Binkley Models

HO, HOn3 Kits

Inglewood

 
 

Blue Line Products

Passenger Cars

Spring Valley

 
 

Bowser

Steam Loco & Parts

Redlands

 

Lewis English (1961)

Boxcar Ken

Rail

Los Angeles

 
 

Budd Model Co.

Steam Loco Parts

Sherman Oaks

 
 

C. J. Ulrich

Track Cleaner, Signals

North Hollywood

Charles J. Ulrich

 

Central Valley

Trucks, Car Kits

North Hollywood

George Hook

Jack Parker, Jeff Parker

Champion Model Co.

Decals

North Hollywood

 
 

Cliff Line

Caboose Kit

North Hollywood

 
 

Devore

O & HO Couplers

South Pasadena

 
 

Don Fowler Co.

Semaphore, Crossing Gate, Wig-Wag

Los Angeles

 
 

E. Suydam & Co.

Structures

Pasadena, Duarte

Edward C. Suydam, Douglas R. Suydam

 

Electronic Sales Co.

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 
 

G. L. Electronics

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 
 

Globe

 
 
 
 

Hi-Ballers Corp.

Link & Pin Couplers, Car Kits

Burbank

 
 

Joseph B. Maier

Live Steam Loco Plans

Pacoima

 
 

Kadee

Couplers

Reseda

Dale Edwards

 

Kurtz-Kraft Models Co.

Signals,Switch Machines, Car Kits, Parts

Long Beach, Tarzana

Albert Kurtz, Jr.

 

KWR, Inc.

Locomotives

Los Angeles

 
 

Lindsay Products, Inc.

Locomotives, Motors, Spiker

Culver City

Robert Lindsay

 

Little Engines

Live Steam Loco & Parts

Lomita

 

 

Mod-Ac Mfg. Co.

Hansom Cab

Los Angeles

 
 

Model Builder's Supply Co.

Hot Metal Car, Water Tank

Duarte

 
 

Model Die Casting

Couplers, Handcars, Paint

Los Angeles

Clarence Mentier

 

Model Engineering Works

O & HO Parts, Kits

Monrovia

Richard Wheeler

 

Model Toy Mfg. Co.

Structures

Burbank

 
 

Modelcraft Printing Services

Doors, Windows

Pasadena

 
 

Models & Miniatures Specialties

Scenery Supplies

San Dimas

 
 

Modelton

Structures, Billboard Posters

Burbank

 
 

Moyes J. Murphy

Power Supplies

Arcadia

 
 

Olson-Spencer

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 
 

Pacific Design & Development Co.

Motors

El Segundo

 
 

Pactra Chemical Co.

Paint

Los Angeles

 
 

Revell

Train Sets

Hollywood

Lewis H. Glaser

 

Robico

O & HO Locomotive, Cars

Universal City

 
 

Rollins House Miniatures

Detail Parts

Covina, Cucamonga

 
 

Silver Streak Corp.

Car Kits

Los Angeles

 
 

Standard Wire & Cable

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Culver City

 
 

Stewart-Lundahl Co.

Paint (310M)

North Hollywood

 

Ulrich?

Town-Craft Models

O & HO Structures

Hermosa Beach

 
 

Tru-Scale

Track & Roadbed

San Dimas

August A. Kniff

Cliff Meistel

W. H. Olson

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 
 

Wesley Mfg. Co.

Cannonball Products, Ore Cars

Van Nuys

 
 

Western Narrow Gauge Model Shop

Track Gauge

Inglewood

 
 

Zenith Model Co.

Power Supplies

Los Angeles

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Clover Custom Decals

Decals

Santa Monica

 
 

Silver Streak (Truce Scale))

Car Kits

San Dimas

 
 

K & O Models

Locomotive, Power Pack

Van Nuys

 
 

G. F. Harbin

Reostat

San Dimas

 
 

Gaylord Products

Power Supplies, Controls

Van Nuys

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Wright Enterprises/MHP

 

Thousand Oaks

Dick Wright

 

 

 

1950 Champ decals in North Hollywood, 1951 Champion Decal Co. in Fresno, 1959 in San Jose
1950 Kurtz-Kraft in Burlingame, 1953 in Long Beach, 1955 in Oroville
Olson-Spencer probably same as W. H. Olson
1958 Weston Mini-Figure Co. in Healdsburg
1959 Clover Decals in  Santa Rosa
1959 Cal-Scale in Pinedale

 

 



Re: 1950s model manufacturers - was Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

Peter Ness
 

Bob, Thanks for publishing as I also have an interest in the hobby history.

 

These may not help much, but perhaps be enough to jog someone’s’ memory for correct information; The newer ownership may well have removed them from a Southern California location.

 

Ayers Models – these were picked up by someone else-  I recall seeing the Ayers Chairs kit in Walthers catalogs, but no longer manufactured by Ayers.

Cliff Line – I recall reading years ago this line was also picked up by another company? Or perhaps I’m confusing with Dale Newton/Red Ball/Wabash Valley…

Ulrich – at one time Walthers appeared to at least manage this line along with Silver Streak; I think the products were identified as “a division of Wm K Walthers” on packaging. As of a couple years ago, someone turned up in an ebay search who was still selling limited Ulrich vehicle cast metal parts under the Ulrich name.

Kurtz-Kraft – I “think” Cannonball Car Shops produced some Kurtz-Kraft flat PS-1 kits.  I bought one in a hobby shop years ago – the shop owner told me “they used to be Kurtz-Kraft”.

Lindsay  - I am pretty sure this product line went to someone else as well; I have an old Lindsay Alco FB-2 die cast shell; may have been Hobbytown or Cary?

Revell – they also made structure kits and (my opinion) to this day have the finest styrene brick wall molding detail around (roundhouse, bakery and print shop kits).  I recall reading about the kit die-maker (or designer?) years ago.  His name was Armitage and he wrote a short booklet on working with styrene which is still available today (newer edition, from PSC) I believe the model railroad equipment and structure lines followed different paths after Revell; I recall seeing the structure kits from both AHM and Con-Cor.

 

Tony – I enjoyed your Globe blog as well – thanks for posting the link.

 

To keep this within STMFC content; It’s amazing (to me) that “back in the day” some manufacturers really made such a top effort to produce both accurate and detailed freight car kits working with the available technology. The first wood freight car kit I built was a Silver Streak 36’ Wood New Haven box car. The car tuned out very nicely (my opinion) and had I used todays available detail parts (brake wheel, housing, car ends, underbody parts, stirrup steps, NBW castings, etc.) and appropriate wire for grab irons instead of what came with the kit, I think it would still stand up with many of today’s offerings. Perhaps not at the top of the heap, but in the running or honorable mention categories. Of course as a kid, almost my entire roster was Athearn and MDC/Roundhouse with a smattering of Varney and Tyco/Mantua….98 cents per kit was hard to beat for a kid with an allowance determined by weekly chore performance….

 

Stay healthy,

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 7:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

 

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

I've had discussions with several people who are/were model railroad manufacturers and asked them about their fellow model railroad manufacturers who were in Southern California in the 1950s. This was golden age locally with many firms located in the area.

I learned in those days long past the manufacturers were somewhat of a fraternity who frequently met socially (usually monthly) to discuss the hobby and product plans.

Sometimes they traded product lines that were either in development or on the market. 

I started to compile a list of Southern California manufacturers from the decade of the 1950s. The current list is below. It is based on advertisements placed in Model Railroader in the 1950 through 1959 January issues plus interviews with folks who were still alive to confirm details.

One point I will mention is how to pronounce the name "Suydam". I learned from the son of one of the company founders that it is pronounced "So Damn", as in "It is so damn hot outside".

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

1950s Southern California Model RR Manufacturers

 

Company

Primary Products

City

Original Owner(s)

Subsequent Owner(s)

 

 

 

 

 

A.C.I.

Locomotive

Long Beach

 

 

Ace Products

Roadbed

Pasadena

 

 

Art Fleming Models

Grab Irons, Car Kits

Studio City

 

 

Athearn

O & HO Models

Los Angeles

Irvin R. Athearn

 

Ayres Models

Structures

Garden Grove

Thomas Ayres

 

Baumgarten

Track Cleaner

Santa Barbara

 

 

Beemax Plastics

Structures

Los Angeles

 

 

Bert Welch Co.

Trees & Bushes

Los Angeles

 

 

Bill Johnson Model Trains

O Scale Passenger Cars

Long Beach

 

 

Binkley Models

HO, HOn3 Kits

Inglewood

 

 

Blue Line Products

Passenger Cars

Spring Valley

 

 

Bowser

Steam Loco & Parts

Redlands

 

Lewis English (1961)

Boxcar Ken

Rail

Los Angeles

 

 

Budd Model Co.

Steam Loco Parts

Sherman Oaks

 

 

C. J. Ulrich

Track Cleaner, Signals

North Hollywood

Charles J. Ulrich

 

Central Valley

Trucks, Car Kits

North Hollywood

George Hook

Jack Parker, Jeff Parker

Champion Model Co.

Decals

North Hollywood

 

 

Cliff Line

Caboose Kit

North Hollywood

 

 

Devore

O & HO Couplers

South Pasadena

 

 

Don Fowler Co.

Semaphore, Crossing Gate, Wig-Wag

Los Angeles

 

 

E. Suydam & Co.

Structures

Pasadena, Duarte

Edward C. Suydam, Douglas R. Suydam

 

Electronic Sales Co.

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

G. L. Electronics

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Los Angeles

 

 

Globe

 

 

 

 

Hi-Ballers Corp.

Link & Pin Couplers, Car Kits

Burbank

 

 

Joseph B. Maier

Live Steam Loco Plans

Pacoima

 

 

Kadee

Couplers

Reseda

Dale Edwards

 

Kurtz-Kraft Models Co.

Signals,Switch Machines, Car Kits, Parts

Long Beach, Tarzana

Albert Kurtz, Jr.

 

KWR, Inc.

Locomotives

Los Angeles

 

 

Lindsay Products, Inc.

Locomotives, Motors, Spiker

Culver City

Robert Lindsay

 

Little Engines

Live Steam Loco & Parts

Lomita

 

 

Mod-Ac Mfg. Co.

Hansom Cab

Los Angeles

 

 

Model Builder's Supply Co.

Hot Metal Car, Water Tank

Duarte

 

 

Model Die Casting

Couplers, Handcars, Paint

Los Angeles

Clarence Mentier

 

Model Engineering Works

O & HO Parts, Kits

Monrovia

Richard Wheeler

 

Model Toy Mfg. Co.

Structures

Burbank

 

 

Modelcraft Printing Services

Doors, Windows

Pasadena

 

 

Models & Miniatures Specialties

Scenery Supplies

San Dimas

 

 

Modelton

Structures, Billboard Posters

Burbank

 

 

Moyes J. Murphy

Power Supplies

Arcadia

 

 

Olson-Spencer

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Pacific Design & Development Co.

Motors

El Segundo

 

 

Pactra Chemical Co.

Paint

Los Angeles

 

 

Revell

Train Sets

Hollywood

Lewis H. Glaser

 

Robico

O & HO Locomotive, Cars

Universal City

 

 

Rollins House Miniatures

Detail Parts

Covina, Cucamonga

 

 

Silver Streak Corp.

Car Kits

Los Angeles

 

 

Standard Wire & Cable

Power Supplies, Motors, Controls

Culver City

 

 

Stewart-Lundahl Co.

Paint (310M)

North Hollywood

 

Ulrich?

Town-Craft Models

O & HO Structures

Hermosa Beach

 

 

Tru-Scale

Track & Roadbed

San Dimas

August A. Kniff

Cliff Meistel

W. H. Olson

Builders Plates

Los Angeles

 

 

Wesley Mfg. Co.

Cannonball Products, Ore Cars

Van Nuys

 

 

Western Narrow Gauge Model Shop

Track Gauge

Inglewood

 

 

Zenith Model Co.

Power Supplies

Los Angeles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clover Custom Decals

Decals

Santa Monica

 

 

Silver Streak (Truce Scale))

Car Kits

San Dimas

 

 

K & O Models

Locomotive, Power Pack

Van Nuys

 

 

G. F. Harbin

Reostat

San Dimas

 

 

Gaylord Products

Power Supplies, Controls

Van Nuys

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wright Enterprises/MHP

 

Thousand Oaks

Dick Wright

 

 

 

1950 Champ decals in North Hollywood, 1951 Champion Decal Co. in Fresno, 1959 in San Jose

1950 Kurtz-Kraft in Burlingame, 1953 in Long Beach, 1955 in Oroville

Olson-Spencer probably same as W. H. Olson

1958 Weston Mini-Figure Co. in Healdsburg

1959 Clover Decals in  Santa Rosa

1959 Cal-Scale in Pinedale

 

 


Re: 410M -paint

Mont Switzer
 

No for a second coat. That stuff covered everything including rivets! That is what we had back in the 1960's.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@switzertc.com
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2020 8:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

And a tiny nit in Bob's list: the Stewart-Lundahl paint was 410M. I struggled with it myself, so I am sure of the answer <g>.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: SP F-70-7 image

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Andy,

Those structures on the deck form a V-shaped trough. The weight of the coils was supposed to keep them in place. However, they did shift during transit, causing the cradles to crack. Post-STMFC cars of this type received heavier ends and "wave" pattern side braces, and presumably the earlier cars were rebuilt with heavier cradles.

Tony was too modest to point out that his SOUTHERN PACIFIC FREIGHT CARS V.3 covers these cars. Pages 338-341 have many photos of these cars, including showing the trough from deck level. His photo cutlines tell us that the first block of these cars was converted from F-70-7 flat cars in 1956-1957. On page 322 there is a roster of these cars showing when the four number blocks were converted, which will be useful to a STMFC modeler wanting to add some of these cars, but I will summarize. The largest block were the initial 165 cars in series 595000-595164, with 50 more cars in series 595165-595214 following in 1959. The notes show 595000-595149 were assigned to USS's Columbia works in Utah, with 595150-595164 assigned to Kaiser Steel (Fontana works?). The 1959 cars were all assigned to USS Columbia. The Columbia cars likely showed up at USS steel's re-rolling plant in Pittsburg (no "h"), California, which the Columbia works supplied. This suggests that they would be regularly seen in SP through trains on the Overland Route from late 1956 to the end of our period of interest.

The third block was completed right at the end of our time period in 1960, and the last with the wave bracing in 1963. No assignments are mentioned for these cars.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:07 PM Andy Jackson <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:
What's to keep steel coils on that car. 
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Bob's Photo Still in business?

Bill Welch
 

I spoke with him three times this week. Very much in business and welcomes requests. It is important to have information like Car Number series.

Bill Welch


Re: Train-Master vs. Train-Miniature

 

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 04:13 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
The Train-Master story is true: https://groups.io/g/ModelRailroadsofSoCalif/message/14937?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,train+master,20,2,0,59798692

I don't believe they were a direct descendent of Silver Streak or Tru-Scale but they did pick-up some product lines from those companies. When I visited their production facility in La Mesa. CA, during the NMRA Silvergate Convention oh-so-many years ago they represented themselves as a new company.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Speaking of T-M and Silvergate convention

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HO-scale-Trains-Miniature-SIlver-Gate-Convention-box-car-Vintage/303600036332?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D1f754d5f655e4854b4e595a38f31ada6%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D292084061665%26itm%3D303600036332%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598

Dan Smith


Re: SP F-70-7 image

 

What's to keep steel coils on that car. 
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA


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