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Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

eastwest40
 

I hope there is a prototype for the red car. I have a Arnold Rapido N scale car. I have been hanging onto it for.years I don't know what type of tank car the model is but I think it is a nice model, probably forty years old. After reading this thread  I think it was inspired by some other model rather than a prototype.

Chuck Seemann   Aurora, Colorado


Re: Tank car projects

Tangent Scale Models
 

Incidentally, I was recently in a brick and mortar shop that had one each of the Tangent Scale Modesl Humble and Sinclair 10,000 GATC 1917-Design tank cars.  In case anyone is interested in those, please contact me OFF LIST and I will get you a shop name.  These 2 schemes have been sold out for approximately 2 years.

Best wishes,

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Bill Decker
 

Andy,

Not wanting to get into a flame war here, especially with oil refinery products about, but your statement: "Rio Grande, while being owned by Richfield Oil, was the recipient of the only US 48 states enemy attack during WWll. That attack was just north of the current University Of California Santa Barbara at an area on the coast called Ellwood Beach. " is incorrect as to "only US 48 states enemy attack during WWII.  We had a discussion on this point quite recently on line.  Up here in Oregon, we know well of the shelling at Fort Stevens on the south side of the mouth of the Columbia--and served off the A-Line of the (by then) SP&S.  That recent discussion also highlighted the flambé le balloon attacks which netted fatalities in southern oregon later in the war (though not close to a rail line).  If you are trying to limit the attack issue to a refinery area, yes, perhaps, but certainly not the only attack on the Pacific Coast.

Bill Decker
McMinnville, Oregon


Re: Tank car projects

Tangent Scale Models
 

Andy Carlson wrote: "I don't believe that Tangent has made a 10000 gallon GATC tank car (yet). "

Andy, Tangent has a website and this page shows our 1917-design tanks with 10,000 gallon radial course tanks.  https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/general-american-10000-gallon-1917-design-radial-course-tank-car/   It is at the bottom of the cars available page since this model is sold out at this time.  You can go here to see the models that exist out there probably on people's shelves:  https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/product-category/sold-out/sold-out-general-american-1917-design-10000-gallon-non-insulated-tank-car/

The Type 27 ACF tanks have the long longitudinal courses and could be placed on a Tangent Type 17 underframe - to create a model of a GATC 1922-design tank.  Some shots of one of these online:
TWOX http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=874265

From the steam era, there are other schemes like Union Oil of California and British American, but that is a start.  Note the center of the car banding present on the GATC builds that is not present on the ACF builds from 1927 but those bands are modelable...

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: Tank car projects

Tony Thompson
 

Rich Christie wrote:

Andy, I know Tony Thompson did some cross-bashing with Intermountain and Athearn tankers. I believe he has that info in his blog.

    Actually, the modeling description was an article in Railroad Model Craftsman, published back in July 2011. I don't have a scan of the article, but do have a PDF of what I sent to RMC, if anyone is interested. It is a fairly big PDF, about 5 MB, in case that might be a challenge.
     Here's a blog post about the article. The Athearn part of the tank swap was a shortened "chemical" insulated car.


Tony Thompson




Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Richard Townsend
 

That's pretty much what I was thinking. B&W photos might be scarce since with some film black-on-red = black. FWIW, Socony-Vacuum (another baby Standard - Standard Oil Company of New York) had some bright red cars so maybe that was something some Standards (two, anyway) did in common.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Richard Townsend wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. 

     Photograph would be nice, of course. But AFAIK all the early Champ stuff is totally prototype based, even if some lettering is a little crude. I am not aware of any Champ foibles from the 1948 era.

Tony Thompson




Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Brian Carlson
 

1948 is still in the post war optimism era. Could it have been a one off for display purposes. 

It wouldn’t be the first time that error was made. A certain heavily over-represented obscure tank car in gray/silver comes to mind.  

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:14 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Richard Townsend wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. 

     Photograph would be nice, of course. But AFAIK all the early Champ stuff is totally prototype based, even if some lettering is a little crude. I am not aware of any Champ foibles from the 1948 era.

Tony Thompson




Re: Tank car projects

Richard Townsend
 

Without looking at the parts, I think the worst case might be having to lengthen the Tangent underframe. That would take two underframes. But the left-over ends could be used for a 4,000 gallon tank! Removing the molded-on tank straps would not be easy, but I think it's doable.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@...>
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 6:59 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tank car projects

I don't believe that Tangent has made a 10000 gallon GATC tank car (yet). Years ago, I discovered that the ACF Type 27 10000 gallon tank was nearly identical in dimensions as the GATC built similar sized tanks. The wheel bases of the truck centers differed on the tank cars, meaning that the securing straps, which line up with the bolsters, would be different. So an Intermountain tank car, with molded on portions of these tie down straps would have to have these straps removed. I don't know if an IM 10K tank swap to a Tangent 8000 gallon tank car frame would be falling-off-a-cliff easy. Is there a deal killer to doing such a kit bash?

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Tony Thompson
 

Richard Townsend wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. 

     Photograph would be nice, of course. But AFAIK all the early Champ stuff is totally prototype based, even if some lettering is a little crude. I am not aware of any Champ foibles from the 1948 era.

Tony Thompson




Re: Tank car projects

Rich C
 

Andy, I know Tony Thompson did some cross-bashing with Intermountain and Athearn tankers. I believe he has that info in his blog.

Rich Christie

On Saturday, June 27, 2020, 08:59:31 PM CDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:


I don't believe that Tangent has made a 10000 gallon GATC tank car (yet). Years ago, I discovered that the ACF Type 27 10000 gallon tank was nearly identical in dimensions as the GATC built similar sized tanks. The wheel bases of the truck centers differed on the tank cars, meaning that the securing straps, which line up with the bolsters, would be different. So an Intermountain tank car, with molded on portions of these tie down straps would have to have these straps removed. I don't know if an IM 10K tank swap to a Tangent 8000 gallon tank car frame would be falling-off-a-cliff easy. Is there a deal killer to doing such a kit bash?

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Ethyl Corporation Tank Car EBAX 3197

Andy Miller
 

Schuyler (et. Al.)   A photo of my EBAX  car is still on line at: http://www.steamerafreightcars.com/modeling/models/millera/ebax3064main.html

 

Regards,

Andy Miller

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 2:12 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Ethyl Corporation Tank Car EBAX 3197

 

Andy Miller (might be on this list) modeled one of the attached cars by printing the paint scheme on a thin plastic wrapper that covered the car, and applying the dome afterwards.  Very clever and a good looking car.

 

Thanks, Garth, for the image.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford

 

Attached is a photo of an Ethyl tank car on the WP circa 1978 at Oroville. Note how small the car is.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 


Tank car projects

Andy Carlson
 

I don't believe that Tangent has made a 10000 gallon GATC tank car (yet). Years ago, I discovered that the ACF Type 27 10000 gallon tank was nearly identical in dimensions as the GATC built similar sized tanks. The wheel bases of the truck centers differed on the tank cars, meaning that the securing straps, which line up with the bolsters, would be different. So an Intermountain tank car, with molded on portions of these tie down straps would have to have these straps removed. I don't know if an IM 10K tank swap to a Tangent 8000 gallon tank car frame would be falling-off-a-cliff easy. Is there a deal killer to doing such a kit bash?

Regards,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Undated photos from the Library of Congress, probably from the early 1940s:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812535/

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812536/

The TIFF versions show the most details.

The second of these photos was published here in 2017.

On the first photo, notice the SP herald is a metal shield, not a painted on stencil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Eric Hansmann
 

After a couple quick searches I did find a few Conoco tank cars on Colorado narrow gauge lines but none seemed to have red lettering. Silver tank cars had green lettering and black tank cars had white lettering. 

I was unable to read gallon capacities. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

Good thought. It doesn't say one way or the other, but I'm almost certain it's for a standard gauge car. It is for a 10,000 gallon tank, with a reweigh station of "E.C." where ever that is. And just to be clear, it's the tank that is red. The decal lettering is black. And it's Champ decal HT-53.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Is the red decal for a narrow gauge prototype?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Andy Carlson
 

This talk of vintage California gasoline  producers brought up the mention of Tidewater/Associated. Associated was a large brand in California going by "Flying A", not be confused with the Pegasus of Mobile Oil. Richard Hendrickson once sent me a picture of an Associated tank car (what a loss when he left us).

On the cover of one of Ted Cullota's Speedwitch Media's books is a Rio Grande Petroleum tank car. Rio Grande, while being owned by Richfield Oil, was the recipient of the only US 48 states enemy attack during WWll. That attack was just north of the current University Of California Santa Barbara at an area on the coast called Ellwood Beach. The billionaire from the Beeny Babies toy company has raised all of the remaining oil field structures and has made a golf course with expensive homes on that famous site. The Barnsdall/Rio Grande gas station survives in derelict condition surrounded by all of this oppulence. The Rio Grande Petroleum Co. had many gas stations and provided free company road maps both pre-war and post. Richfield kept the company as an individual company until sometime in the 1960s or early 1970s.

I would like to have an HO decal for that Rio Grande tank car!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Barnsdall/Rio Grande gas station. Was used in a scene from the movie "The Postman rings twice"
Inline image

_._,_._,_


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Dave Parker
 

On tank cars, I think "EC" always means East Chicago (IN).  GA built cars there, and Sinclair serviced theirs at the refinery.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Taking one more step into the weeds, for years into the 1930’s the head of Atlantic Refining was headed by John W. Van Dyke, the same guy who lent his name to the UTLX steel tank car designs from the beginning of the century, the Class X and V cars.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 5:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

 

At the risk of going way too far down into the weeds:

In 1921, Oildom published a list of all of the operating US refineries.  Atlantic had four, three in PA and (a real rarity) one in GA.

From what I can dredge out of the University of Google, Atlantic's facility in Port Arthur was initially just a crude oil terminal for shipping Spindletop crude to the four refineries.  Refining activity began in 1936, and became more sophisticated during the war and in the 1950s.

To circle back to freight cars, Atlantic probably didn't need any in Port Arthur until the late 1930s at the earliest.  Atlantic Refining (ARX) had a teeny tank-car fleet in the 1930s -- just four cars, but of 12,000-gal capacity.  They must have leased cars for almost all of their rail traffic, but from whom I don't know.  Perhaps UTLX, but Atlantic was a bit of a maverick among the 11 baby standards, so perhaps not.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Tangent Tank Car Paint Removal

Allen Cain
 

First off, if this is the wrong list for this please let me know and any suggestions for another list woU\Uld be appreciated.

I am seeking advice on the removal of the paint/ink that Tangent Scale Models applies to their GATX 1948+ tank cars and their Cosden 3 Dome tank cars.

Bought some ICG Decals and plan to strip and renumber them.

Thanks,

Allen Cain


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Richard Townsend
 

Good thought. It doesn't say one way or the other, but I'm almost certain it's for a standard gauge car. It is for a 10,000 gallon tank, with a reweigh station of "E.C." where ever that is. And just to be clear, it's the tank that is red. The decal lettering is black. And it's Champ decal HT-53.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 4:26 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Is the red decal for a narrow gauge prototype?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:25 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. I've dug through all the sources I can think of and have found no sign of a red Conoco tank car. But that  by no means indicates that there weren't any. I hope someone comes up with confirmation of a red car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Rich C via groups.io <rhcdmc@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Group, Don't want to get too far off topic. I have a burning question though about this Conoco paint scheme. Champ made a decal set. I have not found any evidence of this scheme. Disregard the model's maker.

Thanks,
Rich Christie


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Eric Hansmann
 

Is the red decal for a narrow gauge prototype?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jun 27, 2020, at 6:25 PM, Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend@...> wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. I've dug through all the sources I can think of and have found no sign of a red Conoco tank car. But that  by no means indicates that there weren't any. I hope someone comes up with confirmation of a red car.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Rich C via groups.io <rhcdmc@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Group, Don't want to get too far off topic. I have a burning question though about this Conoco paint scheme. Champ made a decal set. I have not found any evidence of this scheme. Disregard the model's maker.

Thanks,
Rich Christie

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