Date   

Re: Car weighting

Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
 

On 6/28/2020 7:29 AM, Nelson Moyer wrote:
You’re pretty close to the NMRA recommendation  for a forty foot house car with metal wheels

    For those interested in lead stickon's see below.  However they won't ship to CA and a few other states.

https://www.imperialsupplies.com/item/0798580

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Corrections/Additions to Reweigh Symbols list

James Brewer
 

All,

Thanks to those who have provided additions and corrections to the reweigh station symbols list recently posted.  I have incorporated all that I have received and anticipate uploading the revised file after 4th of July weekend.

If you haven't sent me your additions/corrections yet, please do so.

Thanks!

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: Car weighting

Nelson Moyer
 

You’re pretty close to the NMRA recommendation  for a forty foot house car with metal wheels. I use seven of the ¼ oz. tire weights, and that’s very close to the recommendation. For those not familiar with the formula, it’s one ounce plus ½ oz. per inch of car length, so a 40 ft. house car would weigh 3.5 oz. It’ s better to be a little over than a little under, and some clubs have their own standards like La Mesa, which includes rollability and tipping in addition to car weight. Car weight isn’t a critical operational feature unless you run very long trains on horseshoe curves, but the minimum weight should be at least 3.25 oz. for good tracking. I’ve operated 80 plus car trains on the 2% grades on the Tehachapi, and that’s true test of car trackability.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of william darnaby
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Car weighting

 

I have never paid any attention to the NMRA weighting recommendations and couldn't begin to say what they are.  For styrene cars I use what I am given.  For resin cars of any kind I use I use six of the 1/4 oz. sticky weights in a strip.  Exceptions would be resin flat cars which get what ever fits underneath and resin hoppers which get basically nothing beyond trucks and couplers.  I also run empty Kadee 2-bay hoppers with no added weight.  I have no derailment issues.  Carefully laid track helps.

 

Bill Darnaby 

 


ICC Freight Commodity Statistics

akerboomk
 

For those interested, I have compiled *all* the statistics for the B&M, for the years they published individual RR data (1917-1963) (plus 1914-1916 regional/national data)
NOTE: Even if you aren't interested in the B&M...I include the following more general data (see right-most columns):
1) Eastern District (early years) or New England Region (later years) data
2) National "loads originated" data

The Excel file is available here:
https://www.bmrrhs.org/s/BnM_ICC_Frt_Comm_Stat_All-yn9r.xls

Each year is a "tab" at the bottom (worksheet)
There are some examples of how to use Excel to create charts for traffic over time (see rows on each sheet down below row 300, and worksheets after the "[19]63" worksheet).

And some discussion about the ICC commodity data is here:
https://www.bmrrhs.org/icc_freight_commodity_statistics
(or at least read the info in the "00-Notes" worksheet)

If anyone is interested in compiling their own railroad's data, feel free to use this as a template
Constructive criticism always welcome.. Particularly if you know the documents/regulations that governed what was included in each commodity (e.g. what is "Naval Stores"???)
--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Bruce Smith
 

This R-40-2 retains it's applied metal emblem.

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)
 
You can actually read the date on the brake service stencil -- looks like 10-1-40 (or maybe 10-4-40).  K brakes had to be serviced every 15 months at this time, so that narrows the date of the photo better than if you could see the reweigh stencil.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Car weighting

Tim O'Connor
 


Having observed truck performance for over 50 years I think the NMRA recommended
weights give the best long term results for tracking, rolling resistance, wear & tear, coupling
inertia (ever couple into a car and send it flying?), and resistance to 'wobbling' or rocking


On 6/26/2020 9:17 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
Bruce Metcalf wrote:

I use the NMRA weights in HO. I have also found that when there are problems, it's not the absolute weight, but combinations of light and heavy cars in one train. That, or putting light cars or just too many cars around too-tight curves.

     There were studies in the model magazines back in the 1950s that concluded (possibly correctly) that the biggest factor in car weight performance was CONSISTENT car weight. As Bruce says, mixing heavier and lighter cars can bite you. I think one could very probably choose a weight below the NMRA weight now recommended, but the key would be, again, to STICK to that weight and get as close as you can with every car.
      I continue to use the NMRA weight, but then again, I don't have any heavy grades that can hurt locomotive performance.

Tony Thompson

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Bill Welch
 

Who owns the tooling for the ex-Red Caboose PRR style trucks?

Bill Welch


Re: Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

 

On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 06:54 PM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
( snip )
Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Undated photos from the Library of Congress, probably from the early 1940s:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017812535/


In Ted's recent blog post on his site, he goes over the PRR 2D-F8 truck variants in some detail, I suggest all interested take a look.

http://prototopics.blogspot.com/

In it, he mentions the ARA variant used on PFE reefers and in the above link from Bob, the PFE reefer has an ARA type Y truck as mentioned in Ted's blog.
In the TIFF version you can zoom in quite well on this interesting truck.

The one on this PFE reefer looks to have a lateral motion device, something not shown in Ted's blog.

On a side note, if anyone on this list has extra or unneeded RC X29 trucks they don't need or want, I and someone else on this list would like to get them.
We could put them to use.

Regards,
Dan Smith




Re: Tangent Tank Car Paint Removal

John King
 

Allen,

 

On an older run of their 1917 design cars I simply used Micro Sol (red label).   I cut a tiny piece of paper towel the size of the lettering and placed it over the lettering to be removed and soaked it with the Micro Sol.  After 10 or 15 minutes the lettering could be rubbed off with a toothpick.   I have not tried this with the 1948+ cars.   Good luck.

 

John King

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2020 7:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tangent Tank Car Paint Removal

 

First off, if this is the wrong list for this please let me know and any suggestions for another list woU\Uld be appreciated.

 

I am seeking advice on the removal of the paint/ink that Tangent Scale Models applies to their GATX 1948+ tank cars and their Cosden 3 Dome tank cars.

 

Bought some ICG Decals and plan to strip and renumber them.

 

Thanks,

 

Allen Cain


Re: Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Dave Parker
 

You can actually read the date on the brake service stencil -- looks like 10-1-40 (or maybe 10-4-40).  K brakes had to be serviced every 15 months at this time, so that narrows the date of the photo better than if you could see the reweigh stencil.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photos: PFE 36624 (R-40-2)

Jack Mullen
 

John Vachon photos for FSA/OWI Chicago, July 1941.
Carload of onions. Note that they're packed in mesh bags and a temporary wooden deck is used to void stacking too high.

Jack Mullen


Re: Car weighting

william darnaby
 

I have never paid any attention to the NMRA weighting recommendations and couldn't begin to say what they are.  For styrene cars I use what I am given.  For resin cars of any kind I use I use six of the 1/4 oz. sticky weights in a strip.  Exceptions would be resin flat cars which get what ever fits underneath and resin hoppers which get basically nothing beyond trucks and couplers.  I also run empty Kadee 2-bay hoppers with no added weight.  I have no derailment issues.  Carefully laid track helps.

Bill Darnaby 



Re: Tank car projects

Randy Hammill
 

Sure they did:

https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/general-american-10000-gallon-1917-design-radial-course-tank-car/

Randy
--

Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

eastwest40
 

I hope there is a prototype for the red car. I have a Arnold Rapido N scale car. I have been hanging onto it for.years I don't know what type of tank car the model is but I think it is a nice model, probably forty years old. After reading this thread  I think it was inspired by some other model rather than a prototype.

Chuck Seemann   Aurora, Colorado


Re: Tank car projects

Tangent Scale Models
 

Incidentally, I was recently in a brick and mortar shop that had one each of the Tangent Scale Modesl Humble and Sinclair 10,000 GATC 1917-Design tank cars.  In case anyone is interested in those, please contact me OFF LIST and I will get you a shop name.  These 2 schemes have been sold out for approximately 2 years.

Best wishes,

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Bill Decker
 

Andy,

Not wanting to get into a flame war here, especially with oil refinery products about, but your statement: "Rio Grande, while being owned by Richfield Oil, was the recipient of the only US 48 states enemy attack during WWll. That attack was just north of the current University Of California Santa Barbara at an area on the coast called Ellwood Beach. " is incorrect as to "only US 48 states enemy attack during WWII.  We had a discussion on this point quite recently on line.  Up here in Oregon, we know well of the shelling at Fort Stevens on the south side of the mouth of the Columbia--and served off the A-Line of the (by then) SP&S.  That recent discussion also highlighted the flambé le balloon attacks which netted fatalities in southern oregon later in the war (though not close to a rail line).  If you are trying to limit the attack issue to a refinery area, yes, perhaps, but certainly not the only attack on the Pacific Coast.

Bill Decker
McMinnville, Oregon


Re: Tank car projects

Tangent Scale Models
 

Andy Carlson wrote: "I don't believe that Tangent has made a 10000 gallon GATC tank car (yet). "

Andy, Tangent has a website and this page shows our 1917-design tanks with 10,000 gallon radial course tanks.  https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/general-american-10000-gallon-1917-design-radial-course-tank-car/   It is at the bottom of the cars available page since this model is sold out at this time.  You can go here to see the models that exist out there probably on people's shelves:  https://www.tangentscalemodels.com/product-category/sold-out/sold-out-general-american-1917-design-10000-gallon-non-insulated-tank-car/

The Type 27 ACF tanks have the long longitudinal courses and could be placed on a Tangent Type 17 underframe - to create a model of a GATC 1922-design tank.  Some shots of one of these online:
TWOX http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=874265

From the steam era, there are other schemes like Union Oil of California and British American, but that is a start.  Note the center of the car banding present on the GATC builds that is not present on the ACF builds from 1927 but those bands are modelable...

David Lehlbach
Tangent Scale Models


Re: Tank car projects

Tony Thompson
 

Rich Christie wrote:

Andy, I know Tony Thompson did some cross-bashing with Intermountain and Athearn tankers. I believe he has that info in his blog.

    Actually, the modeling description was an article in Railroad Model Craftsman, published back in July 2011. I don't have a scan of the article, but do have a PDF of what I sent to RMC, if anyone is interested. It is a fairly big PDF, about 5 MB, in case that might be a challenge.
     Here's a blog post about the article. The Athearn part of the tank swap was a shortened "chemical" insulated car.


Tony Thompson




Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Richard Townsend
 

That's pretty much what I was thinking. B&W photos might be scarce since with some film black-on-red = black. FWIW, Socony-Vacuum (another baby Standard - Standard Oil Company of New York) had some bright red cars so maybe that was something some Standards (two, anyway) did in common.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2020 7:14 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Richard Townsend wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. 

     Photograph would be nice, of course. But AFAIK all the early Champ stuff is totally prototype based, even if some lettering is a little crude. I am not aware of any Champ foibles from the 1948 era.

Tony Thompson




Re: CONOCO Proto 2000 8K Gallon Type 21 Riveted Tank Car Questions

Brian Carlson
 

1948 is still in the post war optimism era. Could it have been a one off for display purposes. 

It wouldn’t be the first time that error was made. A certain heavily over-represented obscure tank car in gray/silver comes to mind.  

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jun 27, 2020, at 10:14 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Richard Townsend wrote:

This intrigues me. I checked my stash of Champ decals and the diagram, copyright 1948, calls out a "bright red" tank. 

     Photograph would be nice, of course. But AFAIK all the early Champ stuff is totally prototype based, even if some lettering is a little crude. I am not aware of any Champ foibles from the 1948 era.

Tony Thompson



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