Date   

Re: Express reefer addendum

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

The Walthers riveted express reefer is a model of the General American
Car Company AAR Class "BR" Express Reefer that was delivered to REA in
1957. They are somewhat similar to the original "BR" fleet of welded
cars that were delivered to REA by ACF in 1948.

The 1957 riveted car has been out as a brass model twice in the last ten
years. First by Precision Scale and the second time by Challenger
Models.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: (302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

"Andrew S. Miller" wrote:


As an addendum to my llama dung comment, the Walthers cars are very
good. They model the second series of REA cars built in the mid-late
50s. Branchline has been promising the 1948 series for some time now.
But I've been holding my breath for 3 years now waiting for those cars.
The 1948 cars had a different roof, different trucks, and were welded.

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@...

==================================================
prrfc2249 wrote:

Sorry, first post sent early in error. Was questioning accuracy of
MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA paint scheme. Also questioning
accuracy to prototype of the Walthers' 50' riveted steel Express
Reefers in various color schemes provided. Thanks again. Ron

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Canning Co. traffic

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

The discussion of canning operations is of interest to me as I intend to
model at least the facade and dedicated siding to the American Can plant in
Vancouver B.C. While I have numerous photos, none show any other car types
except box cars.

But from what I am reading in some of your e-mails, it appears that canning
factories did more than simply shape and solder sheets of tin into cans -
they also treated the metal in some way (that I have yet to understand).
And from what Peter Boylan says, this involved acids. So it appears to me
there are multiple car types that would have been used to serve an American
Cannign Co. factory mid century or slightly earlier (tank cars, perhaps
gondolas?). Is this supposition true? - and if so, would it be true at all
of their factories, or only at a select few. (I.e. did some factories
supply partially prepared material to other factories for final assembly, or
did each plant do the whole job from beggining to end?)

Since this question is premised on an incomplete understanding of what can
manufacturing companies do, perhaps someone knows a source that describes
the basic operations. I can guess there would be cutting sheet tin into
strips, rolling it and soldering it, and then mechanically placing and
sealing the ends. But my impression from other email is that there are
precursor steps as well.

Maybe there is a source on the subject?

Rob Kirkham


Re: LL ERIE gon

Don Valentine
 

Carrying things one step further one might as well say that Bruce was correct
in stating that Kato never released these cars decorated for the Erie in that
they used the wrong car! Look at the photo you have posted, Schuyler, and you
will note it is one of the cars Kato offered later with the open panels between
the hoppers. The A-3 Ride Control trucks are not proper for the nit-pickers.
Other than these points and a less than adequate lettering job it's a great car!

Take care, Don Valentine




uoting Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>:

Bruce, comparing my Kato factory-decorated ERIE ACF covered hopper (but
you
knew that by now) to the L-L gon, the short answer is "no."

The rib spacing on the ACF car resulted in a very small diamond,
smaller
than the one on the gon. However, not as small as the one on the model
as
decorated by Kato. The limitations of pad printing meant that they
couldn't
get the tips of the diamond to touch the ribs on either side. See:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie21100bdb.jpg

The ELHS offered replacement diamond for the L-L car is slightly too
large
to fit properly between the model's ribs.

What I had not noticed before is that the prototype blt date is 4-46,
where
the model is lettered 3-49, and there's a few other minor discrepancies
in
lettering. Now, that's annoying!

And no, I don't know of a good alternative for the diamond.

SGL


loading cans

fastmail57 <jppjharper@...>
 

The description of loading cans is correct for the 1950s. The device
for picking off a couple of dozen cans off the conveyor was known as
a "fork". Conveyor extensions went right into the car and and were
moved back to the door as the car filled. This was a very labor
intensive job. By the end of the 50s beer and beverage cans were
loaded into customers 24 can retail cardboard packages and loaded
palletized. By the 1960s cans were stacked on pallets to eight foot
height with a slab of chipboard between layers, banded and loaded
with fork lifts. By that time 50 foot cars were the norm but few
cans still went by rail. A check of car numbers for cars to the
cannery in Minnesota shows that anything still listed in my 1957 ORER
was a 40 footer. As far as loss of business to trucks there was no
generral rule. The heavier commodities like tinplate stayed on rail
longest but many other factors such as custmer unloading facilites
etc were a factor. Some plants had a good rail siding but streets
were too narrow to back in a 40 foot semitrailer. Rail held onto some
of the tinplate business by offeering a good rate for ten or more
cars tendered at the same time for the same destination. These ran
into the 1970s usuallly arriving at Milwaukee in all EJ&E 50 foot 70
ton cars. Tinplate was 85% of the cost of a finished can so it was
ordered in endless base weights, tin thickness and widths to match
different can sizes. It was not always easy to put together a ten
car order at one time. JPHarper


Fw: LL ERIE gon

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

After a review with Jay Held, we can offer these decals for the price listed
below in the original post, but for a P&H charge of $1.50 for up to three
sets.

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" <SGL2@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon


*Shameless plug*

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Hildebrand" <SteamFreight@...>

Ron mentions:


of it...), but in researching a car number to use on the LifeLike EL gon
that I'm backdating to Erie . . .
First, I wonder why Ron's backdating an EL gon, when they came decorated
for
ERIE to begin with (in an earlier run, I admit). . . .

But this might be an opportune time to mention that the ELHS has available
"Retrofit decals for the Proto 2000 ERIE Gondola" which modify the
original
diamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the later
version which has the taller ERIE inside the diamond. The decal matches
the
Life-Like diamond in size, and can be applied right over the original
decoration. If you have these cars and are modeling 1941 to ~1963 and
want
ERIE lettering, or want to correct things for EL lettering, you can make
good use of these decals.

ELHS is in the process of developing a website, so I can't offer a view of
these decals just yet, but they include enough to do the following:

2 Erie gons (with the new-style diamond)
5 EL gons (with the correct size diamond and correct-size roadnumbers)
2 "patch job" EL gons (EL roman lettering over the "ERIE" lettering)
Plus additional smaller lettering for the Safety First logos and
Mahwah/Weehawken Ford service


To order, send a letter to:

Jay Held
Erie Lackawanna Historical Society
10-10 Ellis Avenue
Fair Lawn NJ 07410

along with a check payable to ELHS. These decal sets are $4.50 per set.
P&H is $6.95, for up to six sets, in the US. Overseas, $10.00. BTW,
these
decals were prepared for us by Paul Tupaczewski, of Prime Mover Decals.
http://www.primemoverdecals.com/



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Re: LL ERIE gon

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Bruce, comparing my Kato factory-decorated ERIE ACF covered hopper (but you
knew that by now) to the L-L gon, the short answer is "no."

The rib spacing on the ACF car resulted in a very small diamond, smaller
than the one on the gon. However, not as small as the one on the model as
decorated by Kato. The limitations of pad printing meant that they couldn't
get the tips of the diamond to touch the ribs on either side. See:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie21100bdb.jpg

The ELHS offered replacement diamond for the L-L car is slightly too large
to fit properly between the model's ribs.

What I had not noticed before is that the prototype blt date is 4-46, where
the model is lettered 3-49, and there's a few other minor discrepancies in
lettering. Now, that's annoying!

And no, I don't know of a good alternative for the diamond.

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon


Schuyler G Larrabee sez:

But this might be an opportune time to mention that the ELHS has
available
"Retrofit decals for the Proto 2000 ERIE Gondola" which modify the
original
diamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the later
version which has the taller ERIE inside the diamond.
Which brings me to an ERIE "back dating" project I have...I am backdating
three Kato EL AC&F covered hoppers to their original ERIE paint and
lettering...are the ERIE sets from the ELHS appropriate for that car
(aside
from the weight stencils...)?

As for why I'm backdating, the obvious reason is that KATO never released
these cars in ERTIE and I model 1944...however, the real reason is that I
bought the cars after looking at the BLT date (pre 1944) and completely
zoned on the fact that EL didn't exist in '44!!! One day, running them in
a train, it suddenly dawned on me that there was a problem...duuuuuh

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin
Franklin
__
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__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...

tchenoweth@...
 

A coupler height gauge is a must. Once they are adjusted I've never had a car
uncouple. I'm been using them exclusively since they were available, with the
exception of #78 on the resin cars where possible and #2100 for Kadee cars.
Tom Chenoweth


Re: MDC 50' Express Reefer

Don Valentine
 

Quoting "Andrew S. Miller" <asmiller@...>:

Its a very good match. Unfortunately, only for an experimental
Bolivian
car for exporting llama dung ;-) But I'm probably revealing myself as
a
rivet counter. With the recently released REA cars from Walthers,
there's little reason to consider the MDC "thing".

Actually, Andy, about the only thing you are "revealing" is that in the
nearly forty years I've know you, you haven't changed a bit.....which a lot
of us can be very thankful for! (-:

Take care, Don


Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...

Don Valentine
 

Quoting thompson@...:

Don Valentine, perhaps enviously with today's weather, wrote:
Ah, yes! What was it the famous bard, Lucius Beebe, wrote about
California?
Quting directly from The Provocative Pen of Lucius Beebe it was, "It
is
akin to
a nuthouse run by the inmates turned loose!". But one must ask why it
was
necessary to elect them all to public office after turning them loose!
Californians aren't nuttier than other Americans, Don; they just
don't
hide it, like New Englanders do. <bg>

I love it, Tony (or aren't you supposed to spell it "Toney" in Ca.?),
but I've had absolutely no complaint with the weather here today so there
is no envy at all.

Take care, Don


Re: Why do Euro cars have buffers and N. Americans not?

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

In the pre WWI period, many North American cars also had buffers,but they
were placed close together above the coupler. They were often called
deadwoods.
I don't know that I'd say "many", but deadblocks were used most often in
the thirty years before World War I as a means of keeping the couplers
themselves from taking the full brunt of a hard coupling. The development
of more rugged couplers and draft gear obsoleted them, and many roads
removed them in the 1920s.

David Thompson


Re: LL ERIE gon

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Actually Bruce Kato did do them in Erie. I have all 3.

Brian Carlson

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce F. Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon


Schuyler G Larrabee sez:

>But this might be an opportune time to mention that the ELHS has available
>"Retrofit decals for the Proto 2000 ERIE Gondola" which modify the original
>diamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the later
>version which has the taller ERIE inside the diamond.

Which brings me to an ERIE "back dating" project I have...I am backdating
three Kato EL AC&F covered hoppers to their original ERIE paint and
lettering...are the ERIE sets from the ELHS appropriate for that car (aside
from the weight stencils...)?

As for why I'm backdating, the obvious reason is that KATO never released
these cars in ERTIE and I model 1944...however, the real reason is that I
bought the cars after looking at the BLT date (pre 1944) and completely
zoned on the fact that EL didn't exist in '44!!! One day, running them in
a train, it suddenly dawned on me that there was a problem...duuuuuh

Happy Rails
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D.
Scott-Ritchey Research Center
334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax)
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ____________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|____________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...

Kevin Lafferty <KevinHLafferty@...>
 

Try a junk yard.

Kevin Lafferty

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nelson [mailto:muskoka@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] For those using pennies for weight in cars...


-----Original Message-----
From: John F. Cizmar [mailto:jfcizmar1966@...]
F.Y.I. You can buy plumbers 21/2# sheet lead (36"x36") in the
Chicago area for about the same price/lb. as the pennies. I find
it easier to use. Wire solder is about 3X lead or the penny method.

Different places, different rules. It's almost impossible to buy lead in
California (yeah, I know the comments already, no need for more). I went
looking for stick on weights one day (a.k.a. A-Line weights), visting every
tire shop and autoparts store I came across on a 10 mile drive along a
street filled with such establishments. All but one said the same thing:
they can stick them on my wheel rim but they cannot let me stick them on
anything else I own (because the state will be all over their butts if they
do). Finally found one place who agreed this was all nonesense and I bought
a box of strips at his cost ($13/box).

Dave Nelson



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American Can and Deep Rock

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

When American Can had single plant in opening decade of the
twentieth century, it bought black plate and tinned it at their
Boston and Hudson St. works in Baltimore. They had 16 tinning sets,
here where they slit and formed cans. Baltimore, was very logical
location since this is where Underwood started it all ( Embalmed
Provisions on first labels and literature), and Crosse and Blackwell
another pioneer canner was also there. Back then embalming, was mew
and scientific, and since it eliminated possibility of being buried
alive, reduced problems with miasma from decaying corpses being
placed for viewing, and otherwise made life more pleasant it had
entirely different associations than today.

Underwood, has dropped that promotion, but interestingly has
kept the concept of enclosing can in white overall packaging
(originally this carried the only labelling and was wax sealed on
top) to indicate they are original,and therefore the old and reliable
purveyor to buy from. My guess is that some time around the Great
War, that lost its message. I asked informally what that Underwood
wrapped cans suggested to women in my life. My oldest
daughter's "overpriced salty ground meat", seems to sum it up. Even
if you are a fan of their various canned meat, and disagree with my
clan, I don't think the extra wrapping has anything to do with it,
since no one gets the message it is trying to impart.

From a transport point of view, it means that the early American
Can plant(s) would have been receiving acid and cassiterite through
1910 at least(maybe later); as well as lead, and sheet steel to
first create tinplate and then can blanks. Later, they became a giant
using steel company tin plate. Since cassiterite was imported from
Malaya and Bolivia (still from U.K ?) it would likely have not been a
rail haul in Baltimore, but you don't have to have factory there,
since it's your miniworld.

The humongous American Tin Plate operations, at various locations,
had nothing to do with American Can. It was merged into the Uncle Sam
goliath (now USX) back when Morgan et al - bought out Carnegie and
created massive merger and cartel.

Deep Rock Petroleum , was bought out by Kerr-McGee and no longer
exists. However, the name appears from time to time on permit
holders and well site bidders as "Deep Rock Development" etc. These
have nothing to do with old oil company, just limited supply of names
in the imaginations of drillers.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan


Re: Express reefer addendum

Andrew S. Miller <asmiller@...>
 

As an addendum to my llama dung comment, the Walthers cars are very
good. They model the second series of REA cars built in the mid-late
50s. Branchline has been promising the 1948 series for some time now.
But I've been holding my breath for 3 years now waiting for those cars.
The 1948 cars had a different roof, different trucks, and were welded.


Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@...

==================================================
prrfc2249 wrote:

Sorry, first post sent early in error. Was questioning accuracy of
MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA paint scheme. Also questioning
accuracy to prototype of the Walthers' 50' riveted steel Express
Reefers in various color schemes provided. Thanks again. Ron


Re: MDC 50' Express Reefer

Andrew S. Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Its a very good match. Unfortunately, only for an experimental Bolivian
car for exporting llama dung ;-) But I'm probably revealing myself as a
rivet counter. With the recently released REA cars from Walthers,
there's little reason to consider the MDC "thing".

Regards,

Andy Miller
asmiller@...

==================================================
prrfc2249 wrote:

How does the MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA color scheme compare to
prototype, if any? Thanks. Ron


Express reefer addendum

prrfc2249 <prrfc2249@...>
 

Sorry, first post sent early in error. Was questioning accuracy of
MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA paint scheme. Also questioning
accuracy to prototype of the Walthers' 50' riveted steel Express
Reefers in various color schemes provided. Thanks again. Ron


MDC 50' Express Reefer

prrfc2249 <prrfc2249@...>
 

How does the MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA color scheme compare to
prototype, if any? Thanks. Ron


Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Don,

I personally love the new Kadee #58s! I got back into the hobby at about
the same time the new plastic Kadee clones came onto the market, and I
decided to give them a try. They all sucked. The Accurail ones were the
best of the bunch, but they don't always like to mate with Kadees. So out
everything went, and I started buying #5s for my fleet. Then, at about the
same time I was getting into proto freight cars, the Kadee #58s and scale
Accumates came onto the market. Given my bad luck with plastic couplers,
I've ignored the Accumates, but have given the #58s a run for their money.

Virtually all of my cars now have #58s on 'em (300+ and growing fast), and I
have yet to experience a single "mystery uncoupling". I've even run 40 car
freights on a modular layout (lots of bad rail joints) without a break. On
the rare occasions they DO uncouple, it's completely the fault of bad
trackwork.

Are there more scale couplers on the market? Yup. Sergeant makes a working
coupler that's supposedly exactly to scale, and I've heard the Accumates are
close to scale. But...Accumates are plastic and only come in one shank
size, and the Sergeants are expensive, delicate, and need to be completely
assembled and painted. So for me, the #58s are the best solution.

Kadee has stated that they can't keep up with production of the #58s, and
I'm constantly having to put them on backorder. I'm sure that given time,
Kadee will come out with modified #58s, to offer most if not all of the
conversion varieties that their "standard" knuckle style now has.


Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: newrail@... [mailto:newrail@...]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:49 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] For those using pennies for weight in cars...

On a similar vein, what have people had for experience with the new Kadee
#58 couplers? One acquaintance with a large shop in a major metropolitan
area
tells me they sold like hot cakes for three months and then died. Then the
feloows who had been buying htem began to by #5's again instead. When asked
why the stick answer seems to be that they uncoupled too frequently without
reason when trains were running. This seems to me to be more of a problem
with track problems in the vertical plain but perhaps not. Obviously the
closer to scale a coupler becomes the smaller the pulling fact becomes. Does
anyone have any thoughts on this?

Take care, Don Valentine


Re: Loaders for those auto cars

Andy Carlson
 

--- Ned Carey <westernmd@...> wrote:

In regard to the car interior, a unique kit that
included an interior and
the Evans loader could be marketed as a premium kit,
something extra
special. Not only interior walls but the interior of
the door and roof could
be modeled. That's certainly a kit I would be
interested in.

Ned
Back in my early ventures into resin casting, I tried
one time to cast a boxcar side with interior
sheathing. what I did was to cut a piece of Evergreen
siding material to the inside car dimensions. After
that, I partially filled a mold of a single sheathed
boxcar side with resin, then I CAREFULLY let in the
evergreen piece with the scribed surface facing up,
being careful to not let any resin run onto the
plastic surface. I let everything cure, and Viola!, I
had interior sheathing with no extra thickness
penalty. I still have this experiment side, and maybe
someday I will do a complete car. I remain
-Andy Carlson


Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...

thompson@...
 

Don Valentine, perhaps enviously with today's weather, wrote:
Ah, yes! What was it the famous bard, Lucius Beebe, wrote about California?
Quting directly from The Provocative Pen of Lucius Beebe it was, "It is
akin to
a nuthouse run by the inmates turned loose!". But one must ask why it was
necessary to elect them all to public office after turning them loose!
Californians aren't nuttier than other Americans, Don; they just don't
hide it, like New Englanders do. <bg>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

175941 - 175960 of 193466