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Re: Express reefer addendum
Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
The Walthers riveted express reefer is a model of the General American
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Car Company AAR Class "BR" Express Reefer that was delivered to REA in 1957. They are somewhat similar to the original "BR" fleet of welded cars that were delivered to REA by ACF in 1948. The 1957 riveted car has been out as a brass model twice in the last ten years. First by Precision Scale and the second time by Challenger Models. Tom Olsen 7 Boundary Road, West Branch Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479 PH: (302) 738-4292 tmolsen@... "Andrew S. Miller" wrote:
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Canning Co. traffic
Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
The discussion of canning operations is of interest to me as I intend to
model at least the facade and dedicated siding to the American Can plant in Vancouver B.C. While I have numerous photos, none show any other car types except box cars. But from what I am reading in some of your e-mails, it appears that canning factories did more than simply shape and solder sheets of tin into cans - they also treated the metal in some way (that I have yet to understand). And from what Peter Boylan says, this involved acids. So it appears to me there are multiple car types that would have been used to serve an American Cannign Co. factory mid century or slightly earlier (tank cars, perhaps gondolas?). Is this supposition true? - and if so, would it be true at all of their factories, or only at a select few. (I.e. did some factories supply partially prepared material to other factories for final assembly, or did each plant do the whole job from beggining to end?) Since this question is premised on an incomplete understanding of what can manufacturing companies do, perhaps someone knows a source that describes the basic operations. I can guess there would be cutting sheet tin into strips, rolling it and soldering it, and then mechanically placing and sealing the ends. But my impression from other email is that there are precursor steps as well. Maybe there is a source on the subject? Rob Kirkham
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Re: LL ERIE gon
Don Valentine
Carrying things one step further one might as well say that Bruce was correct
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in stating that Kato never released these cars decorated for the Erie in that they used the wrong car! Look at the photo you have posted, Schuyler, and you will note it is one of the cars Kato offered later with the open panels between the hoppers. The A-3 Ride Control trucks are not proper for the nit-pickers. Other than these points and a less than adequate lettering job it's a great car! Take care, Don Valentine uoting Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>:
Bruce, comparing my Kato factory-decorated ERIE ACF covered hopper (but
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loading cans
fastmail57 <jppjharper@...>
The description of loading cans is correct for the 1950s. The device
for picking off a couple of dozen cans off the conveyor was known as a "fork". Conveyor extensions went right into the car and and were moved back to the door as the car filled. This was a very labor intensive job. By the end of the 50s beer and beverage cans were loaded into customers 24 can retail cardboard packages and loaded palletized. By the 1960s cans were stacked on pallets to eight foot height with a slab of chipboard between layers, banded and loaded with fork lifts. By that time 50 foot cars were the norm but few cans still went by rail. A check of car numbers for cars to the cannery in Minnesota shows that anything still listed in my 1957 ORER was a 40 footer. As far as loss of business to trucks there was no generral rule. The heavier commodities like tinplate stayed on rail longest but many other factors such as custmer unloading facilites etc were a factor. Some plants had a good rail siding but streets were too narrow to back in a 40 foot semitrailer. Rail held onto some of the tinplate business by offeering a good rate for ten or more cars tendered at the same time for the same destination. These ran into the 1970s usuallly arriving at Milwaukee in all EJ&E 50 foot 70 ton cars. Tinplate was 85% of the cost of a finished can so it was ordered in endless base weights, tin thickness and widths to match different can sizes. It was not always easy to put together a ten car order at one time. JPHarper
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Fw: LL ERIE gon
Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
After a review with Jay Held, we can offer these decals for the price listed
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below in the original post, but for a P&H charge of $1.50 for up to three sets. SGL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Schuyler G Larrabee" <SGL2@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon *Shameless plug*for ERIE to begin with (in an earlier run, I admit). . . .original diamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the laterthe Life-Like diamond in size, and can be applied right over the originalwant ERIE lettering, or want to correct things for EL lettering, you can makethese decals were prepared for us by Paul Tupaczewski, of Prime Mover Decals.
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Re: LL ERIE gon
Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
Bruce, comparing my Kato factory-decorated ERIE ACF covered hopper (but you
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knew that by now) to the L-L gon, the short answer is "no." The rib spacing on the ACF car resulted in a very small diamond, smaller than the one on the gon. However, not as small as the one on the model as decorated by Kato. The limitations of pad printing meant that they couldn't get the tips of the diamond to touch the ribs on either side. See: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie21100bdb.jpg The ELHS offered replacement diamond for the L-L car is slightly too large to fit properly between the model's ribs. What I had not noticed before is that the prototype blt date is 4-46, where the model is lettered 3-49, and there's a few other minor discrepancies in lettering. Now, that's annoying! And no, I don't know of a good alternative for the diamond. SGL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce F. Smith" <smithbf@...> To: <STMFC@...> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon Schuyler G Larrabee sez:availableBut this might be an opportune time to mention that the ELHS has original"Retrofit decals for the Proto 2000 ERIE Gondola" which modify the (asidediamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the laterWhich brings me to an ERIE "back dating" project I have...I am backdating from the weight stencils...)?Franklin __
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...
tchenoweth@...
A coupler height gauge is a must. Once they are adjusted I've never had a car
uncouple. I'm been using them exclusively since they were available, with the exception of #78 on the resin cars where possible and #2100 for Kadee cars. Tom Chenoweth
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Re: MDC 50' Express Reefer
Don Valentine
Quoting "Andrew S. Miller" <asmiller@...>:
Its a very good match. Unfortunately, only for an experimental Actually, Andy, about the only thing you are "revealing" is that in the nearly forty years I've know you, you haven't changed a bit.....which a lot of us can be very thankful for! (-: Take care, Don
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...
Don Valentine
Quoting thompson@...:
Don Valentine, perhaps enviously with today's weather, wrote:Ah, yes! What was it the famous bard, Lucius Beebe, wrote aboutCalifornia?Quting directly from The Provocative Pen of Lucius Beebe it was, "Itisakin towas I love it, Tony (or aren't you supposed to spell it "Toney" in Ca.?), but I've had absolutely no complaint with the weather here today so there is no envy at all. Take care, Don
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Re: Why do Euro cars have buffers and N. Americans not?
James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
In the pre WWI period, many North American cars also had buffers,but theyI don't know that I'd say "many", but deadblocks were used most often in the thirty years before World War I as a means of keeping the couplers themselves from taking the full brunt of a hard coupling. The development of more rugged couplers and draft gear obsoleted them, and many roads removed them in the 1920s. David Thompson
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Re: LL ERIE gon
Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
Actually Bruce Kato did do them in Erie. I have all 3.
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Brian Carlson
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce F. Smith To: STMFC@... Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [STMFC] LL ERIE gon Schuyler G Larrabee sez: >But this might be an opportune time to mention that the ELHS has available >"Retrofit decals for the Proto 2000 ERIE Gondola" which modify the original >diamond applied by Life-Like, which is the pre-1941 style, to the later >version which has the taller ERIE inside the diamond. Which brings me to an ERIE "back dating" project I have...I am backdating three Kato EL AC&F covered hoppers to their original ERIE paint and lettering...are the ERIE sets from the ELHS appropriate for that car (aside from the weight stencils...)? As for why I'm backdating, the obvious reason is that KATO never released these cars in ERTIE and I model 1944...however, the real reason is that I bought the cars after looking at the BLT date (pre 1944) and completely zoned on the fact that EL didn't exist in '44!!! One day, running them in a train, it suddenly dawned on me that there was a problem...duuuuuh Happy Rails Bruce Bruce F. Smith V.M.D., Ph.D. Scott-Ritchey Research Center 334-844-5587, 334-844-5850 (fax) http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/ "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ____________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|____________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...
Kevin Lafferty <KevinHLafferty@...>
Try a junk yard.
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Kevin Lafferty
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Nelson [mailto:muskoka@...] Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 1:34 PM To: STMFC@... Subject: RE: [STMFC] For those using pennies for weight in cars... -----Original Message----- F.Y.I. You can buy plumbers 21/2# sheet lead (36"x36") in the Different places, different rules. It's almost impossible to buy lead in California (yeah, I know the comments already, no need for more). I went looking for stick on weights one day (a.k.a. A-Line weights), visting every tire shop and autoparts store I came across on a 10 mile drive along a street filled with such establishments. All but one said the same thing: they can stick them on my wheel rim but they cannot let me stick them on anything else I own (because the state will be all over their butts if they do). Finally found one place who agreed this was all nonesense and I bought a box of strips at his cost ($13/box). Dave Nelson To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: STMFC-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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American Can and Deep Rock
cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
When American Can had single plant in opening decade of the
twentieth century, it bought black plate and tinned it at their Boston and Hudson St. works in Baltimore. They had 16 tinning sets, here where they slit and formed cans. Baltimore, was very logical location since this is where Underwood started it all ( Embalmed Provisions on first labels and literature), and Crosse and Blackwell another pioneer canner was also there. Back then embalming, was mew and scientific, and since it eliminated possibility of being buried alive, reduced problems with miasma from decaying corpses being placed for viewing, and otherwise made life more pleasant it had entirely different associations than today. Underwood, has dropped that promotion, but interestingly has kept the concept of enclosing can in white overall packaging (originally this carried the only labelling and was wax sealed on top) to indicate they are original,and therefore the old and reliable purveyor to buy from. My guess is that some time around the Great War, that lost its message. I asked informally what that Underwood wrapped cans suggested to women in my life. My oldest daughter's "overpriced salty ground meat", seems to sum it up. Even if you are a fan of their various canned meat, and disagree with my clan, I don't think the extra wrapping has anything to do with it, since no one gets the message it is trying to impart. From a transport point of view, it means that the early American Can plant(s) would have been receiving acid and cassiterite through 1910 at least(maybe later); as well as lead, and sheet steel to first create tinplate and then can blanks. Later, they became a giant using steel company tin plate. Since cassiterite was imported from Malaya and Bolivia (still from U.K ?) it would likely have not been a rail haul in Baltimore, but you don't have to have factory there, since it's your miniworld. The humongous American Tin Plate operations, at various locations, had nothing to do with American Can. It was merged into the Uncle Sam goliath (now USX) back when Morgan et al - bought out Carnegie and created massive merger and cartel. Deep Rock Petroleum , was bought out by Kerr-McGee and no longer exists. However, the name appears from time to time on permit holders and well site bidders as "Deep Rock Development" etc. These have nothing to do with old oil company, just limited supply of names in the imaginations of drillers. Good-Luck, Peter Boylan
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Re: Express reefer addendum
Andrew S. Miller <asmiller@...>
As an addendum to my llama dung comment, the Walthers cars are very
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good. They model the second series of REA cars built in the mid-late 50s. Branchline has been promising the 1948 series for some time now. But I've been holding my breath for 3 years now waiting for those cars. The 1948 cars had a different roof, different trucks, and were welded. Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@... ================================================== prrfc2249 wrote:
Sorry, first post sent early in error. Was questioning accuracy of
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Re: MDC 50' Express Reefer
Andrew S. Miller <asmiller@...>
Its a very good match. Unfortunately, only for an experimental Bolivian
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car for exporting llama dung ;-) But I'm probably revealing myself as a rivet counter. With the recently released REA cars from Walthers, there's little reason to consider the MDC "thing". Regards, Andy Miller asmiller@... ================================================== prrfc2249 wrote:
How does the MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA color scheme compare to
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Express reefer addendum
prrfc2249 <prrfc2249@...>
Sorry, first post sent early in error. Was questioning accuracy of
MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA paint scheme. Also questioning accuracy to prototype of the Walthers' 50' riveted steel Express Reefers in various color schemes provided. Thanks again. Ron
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MDC 50' Express Reefer
prrfc2249 <prrfc2249@...>
How does the MDC 50' Express Reefer in REA color scheme compare to
prototype, if any? Thanks. Ron
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...
Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
Don,
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I personally love the new Kadee #58s! I got back into the hobby at about the same time the new plastic Kadee clones came onto the market, and I decided to give them a try. They all sucked. The Accurail ones were the best of the bunch, but they don't always like to mate with Kadees. So out everything went, and I started buying #5s for my fleet. Then, at about the same time I was getting into proto freight cars, the Kadee #58s and scale Accumates came onto the market. Given my bad luck with plastic couplers, I've ignored the Accumates, but have given the #58s a run for their money. Virtually all of my cars now have #58s on 'em (300+ and growing fast), and I have yet to experience a single "mystery uncoupling". I've even run 40 car freights on a modular layout (lots of bad rail joints) without a break. On the rare occasions they DO uncouple, it's completely the fault of bad trackwork. Are there more scale couplers on the market? Yup. Sergeant makes a working coupler that's supposedly exactly to scale, and I've heard the Accumates are close to scale. But...Accumates are plastic and only come in one shank size, and the Sergeants are expensive, delicate, and need to be completely assembled and painted. So for me, the #58s are the best solution. Kadee has stated that they can't keep up with production of the #58s, and I'm constantly having to put them on backorder. I'm sure that given time, Kadee will come out with modified #58s, to offer most if not all of the conversion varieties that their "standard" knuckle style now has. Ray Breyer
-----Original Message-----
From: newrail@... [mailto:newrail@...] Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:49 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] For those using pennies for weight in cars... On a similar vein, what have people had for experience with the new Kadee #58 couplers? One acquaintance with a large shop in a major metropolitan area tells me they sold like hot cakes for three months and then died. Then the feloows who had been buying htem began to by #5's again instead. When asked why the stick answer seems to be that they uncoupled too frequently without reason when trains were running. This seems to me to be more of a problem with track problems in the vertical plain but perhaps not. Obviously the closer to scale a coupler becomes the smaller the pulling fact becomes. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Take care, Don Valentine
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Re: Loaders for those auto cars
Andy Carlson
--- Ned Carey <westernmd@...> wrote:
In regard to the car interior, a unique kit thatBack in my early ventures into resin casting, I tried one time to cast a boxcar side with interior sheathing. what I did was to cut a piece of Evergreen siding material to the inside car dimensions. After that, I partially filled a mold of a single sheathed boxcar side with resin, then I CAREFULLY let in the evergreen piece with the scribed surface facing up, being careful to not let any resin run onto the plastic surface. I let everything cure, and Viola!, I had interior sheathing with no extra thickness penalty. I still have this experiment side, and maybe someday I will do a complete car. I remain -Andy Carlson
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Re: For those using pennies for weight in cars...
thompson@...
Don Valentine, perhaps enviously with today's weather, wrote:
Ah, yes! What was it the famous bard, Lucius Beebe, wrote about California?Californians aren't nuttier than other Americans, Don; they just don't hide it, like New Englanders do. <bg> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history
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