Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Mystery Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Most certainly coke extensions.  The gaps are for wheelbarrows on ramps.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:32 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Mystery Cars

 

Probably for hauling coke

Fenton

 

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 12:57 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Mystery Cars

An undated photo from West Virginia University:

Blockedhttps://wvhistoryonview.org/image/025947.jpg

These cars appear to be gondolas with extensions. Anyone have an idea what these cars were used for?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Businesses served by the PRR's Mon Division/Branch over time

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yes, Tom, and research into the individual industries/customers.

 

I have a larger document that covers what I know on each customer/siding/interchange, researched to-date (this is a whole lot of work), and what that contributed as carloads, and of what.

 

I am also interested in the evolution of that area over time, which changed tremendously.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of tmkprr1954 via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 1:44 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Businesses served by the PRR's Mon Division/Branch over time

 

Elden,

That is indeed an interesting evolution of customers.  Did that come from CT1000s?

 

Regards,

 

Tom Kane

Modeling the PRR in 1954 (ish)

PRRT&HS 8188

Purcelleville, VA


Re: Businesses served by the PRR's Mon Division/Branch over time

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

No, NAPTOWN (name?), those are the number of businesses of that type served, like 12 breweries/distilleries becomes 5, then still 5, then 1.  Not only due to prohibition, but also consolidation, and example being “Pittsburgh Brewing”, who consolidated lots of smaller operations into their own, with fewer customers then served.

 

The carloads on the Mon were immense.

 

That’s a whole ‘nother subject!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 2:20 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Businesses served by the PRR's Mon Division/Branch over time

 

What do the numbers represent in the columns?  Surely they are not carloads.


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 12:55 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io; PRR@PRR.groups.io
Subject: [External] [RealSTMFC] Businesses served by the PRR's Mon Division/Branch over time

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 

Groups;

 

To add to the discussion on industries served, over time, I thought you might find this interesting:

 

PRR’s Monongahela Division/Branch:   1918, 1939, 1945, 1962:

Business Traffic by Commodity/Industry – 1918 to 1962

Commodity/

Industry

1918

1939

1945

1962

Auto/Truck Delivery

1

 

 

 

Boiler Tubes

1

 

 

 

Boxes

 

2

2

2

Brewing/Distilling

12

5

5

1

Brick (Standard, not refractories)

2

1

1

 

Cement

 

1

1

1

Chemical/Coke By-Products

1

3

4

4

Coal (Mining)

48

32

39

16

Coal (Retail)

1

2

2

 

Coke

 

4

1

1

 

Coal AND Coke

 

7

1

 

 

Concrete Block

 

 

 

1

Construction

 

 

2

 

Cooperage (Barrels)

1

1

1

 

Dairy

 

1

1

1

Drain Pipe

 

1

1

1

Drywall

 

1

1

1

Electrical Products

 

 

 

1

Feed and/or Milling

 

1

1

1

Flour

 

1

1

1

Foundry Products/”Iron Works”/Castings

3

1

1

 

Finished Furniture Storage & Transfer

 

1

1

 

Glass & Glasshouse Supply

 

11

5

5

2

Grain

2

 

 

 

Grocery/Supermarket Supply

1

1

1

1

Hangers

 

1

1

1

Hay

1

 

 

 

Ice

3

1

1

 

Iron Only (Muck Iron)

1

1

1

1

Iron & Steel Pipe (Primarily iron)

2

1

1

1

LCL/Station Deliveries

35

34

37

14

Lumber/Commercial Products/Building Supply

21

17

20

13

Machinery

5

4

4

3

Marine Ways

 

1

1

1

Meat

3

4

4

1

Mercantile

 

 

1

 

Mine & Mill Supply

 

1

1

1

1

Munitions Casings

 

 

1

1

Natural Gas

2

1

1

1

Oil or Refined Products

6

8

13

8

Paper (Wrapping)

1

 

 

 

Plumbing Supply

 

1

1

2

Power Generation

1

2

4

3

Produce

2

2

2

1

Railroad Track Parts

1

1

1

1

Railroad Wheels

1

1

1

?

Refractories

1

1

1

1

Sand & Gravel

2

1

1

 

Sashes & Doors

 

1

1

1

Scrap/Iron & Metal

2

2

5

5

Slag

 

 

1

 

Specialty Moving Services

 

 

1

 

Steel/Iron & Steel (primarily steel)

9

15

15

13

Steel Supply for Fabricators

1

1

1

1

Storage/Transfer/Warehousing

1

3

4

3

Team Track

1

1

1

1

Toy Pistols

1

 

 

 

Trunks & Bags

 

1

1

1

***Unknown***

 

8

15

6?

U.S. Army Engineers

 

1

1

 

Water (Water Treatment)

1

2

3

3

TOTAL BUSINESSES

 

200

180

218

122?

TOTAL CARLOADS IN / OUT

 

12,481/21,759

 

 

 

Percent Coal Mining (Out)

24%

18%

18%

13%

Carloads of Coal/Percentage of Total

 

 

 

 

Percent Station Delivery (In/Out)

18

19

17

11

 

 

 

 

 

Percent Steel Industry (In/Out)

5

8

7

11

 

 

 

 

 

Percent Lumber/Building Supply (In)

11

9

9

11

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note big declines in brewing, coal mining, coke, glass, LCL, and growth in steel and scrap.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

 


Re: Photo: Flood Damaged PFE Reefers

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 12:36 PM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:

If you look at both photos the cars all show a 4 and 4 panel pattern on either

side of the doors in the same places n the car sides even if the number of individual boards lost varies.

This leads me to wonder just how these cars were originally constructed or “assembled”. Could it be

that panels of siding were assembled as units before actually being applied to the sides of the cars?

I noticed that too, Don, the missing siding seems to be at the car post locations. Since the siding is a single layer of T&G, I don't see any way to blame it on panels. Here is what I think happened. The siding is nailed to girths; horizontal wood rails that are fitted between the posts. That means it's likely a lot of nails in those strips of siding adjacent to the posts only caught the end of the girth, so those boards were not attached quite as solidly as the strips further from the posts. When subjected to the scouring action of the flood waters, those were the first boards to let go. It's also possible that the proximity of the post put more pressure on those siding boards as the current tried to force it's way between. Whatever the reason it is clearly related to the position of the car posts, and it was consistent along the length of both cars.

Dennis Storzek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

John;

 

I have seen a number of photos like this over the years, and others make it look like a publicity thing.  Like, “Look how perfect our coal you will get is.”

 

It is clear from some of those that the coal was sorted by size and appearance.

 

Some photos  have signs or banners, saying things like “Eastern Bituminous Burns Best”.  Good cheap advertising for somebody!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Holmes
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 4:30 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

 

Ok folks, I am not a coal road modeler, but my curiosity is too much.  This coal load needs an explanation from those in the know.  The lumps are placed so well...better than some patios that I have seen.  

 

John Holmes



On Jul 9, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:



Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

An undated photo from West Virginia University:

Blockedhttps://wvhistoryonview.org/image/003502.jpg

1930 or later,

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 01:30 PM, John Holmes wrote:
 This coal load needs an explanation from those in the know.  The lumps are placed so well...better than some patios that I have seen.  
Like a builder's photo... extra care in preparation.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

John Holmes
 

Ok folks, I am not a coal road modeler, but my curiosity is too much.  This coal load needs an explanation from those in the know.  The lumps are placed so well...better than some patios that I have seen.  

John Holmes

On Jul 9, 2020, at 9:55 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:



Photo: C&O Hopper 56516 With Lump Coal Load

An undated photo from West Virginia University:

https://wvhistoryonview.org/image/003502.jpg

1930 or later,

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Don Burn
 

I know of at least 4 types of tanks:

 

1.       The “side door” tanks that Sealtest used these seem to be the smallest.  See http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/MilkTrains/NX_1487.htm for a model.

2.       The tanks as F&C modeled them see http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/MilkTrains/National_Car.htm

3.       An extended version of the tanks above that had the tank stick out from the base some on the end without the door.

4.       What I call the Borden’s Breadloaf which was a tank with fairly straight sides, and rounded ends (that reminds me of a loaf of bread).

 

I would recommend the Railway Milk Car series of books done by Bob’s Photos.

 

Don Burn

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2020 6:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

 

    Renken’s Dairy also used the roll-on, roll-off milk containers. In several

Photos I have seen of both the Renken and some Borden’s containers seem

to indicate a red color which is also believed to have been used by Sealtest

for cars used by the General Ice Cream Co. that supplied the base mix for

ice cream to ice cream makers.

 

   Hope this helps rather than leaving you more puzzled as color photos are

rare. Be aware that there were at least two and I think three styles of tanks

used as well. Randy has photos of one and I have drawings for another

received from Fruit Growers Express, which basically owned National Car,

long gone facility at Potomac Yard.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Photo Help -- DT&I Boxcar #14300-14549

John Stanford
 

I don't have any photos of that series, but I do show they were shopped in 1959 with insullation and plug doors added and renumbered into 19300-19449 series, of which there are several photos - though obviously with different doors.  Dave Mikulec's DT&I page has several photos of those...  http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI19000s40'InsulBoxcar/ArtDTI19300s.html

That might get you started until someone else can come through with the real deal.

-John Stanford


Re: Wanting to model accurate watermelon loads

Rick Naylor
 




From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Don Hand <donlhand@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 8:46 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wanting to model accurate watermelon loads
 
Group - One good reference is the article, Moving Melons by Rail, by David Steer, Railroad Model Craftsman, Jan. 2014. More about the cars is in Ventilated Box Car, by Robert L. Hundman, Mainline Modeler, Apr. 2006.

I live in Hempstead, Texas, which was the watermelon shipping capital of the U.S., prior to 194O.  Although, surviving photos show watermelons being shipped primarily in T&NO stock cars.

Don Hand


Re: Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Don Burn
 

From the old MilkTrains group when it was on Yahoo:

Borden cars were painted white(cream?) with Black letterring. In the 1940's, Bordens painted these cars a reddish orange with yellow letterring which was changed to a silver with black letters by the mid fifties.

I suspect you are seeing photos of the silver colored cars.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of webotkin
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 10:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Hi,

I am modeling some milk container cars on the flat cars owned by National Car Company that the DL&W used to carry in their milk trains in the early 1950’s. Funaro and Camerlengo (F&C) has produced these cars in HO as resin kits. In the process of painting the kits, the question is what color are the containers and what were they lettered.

In a review of the kits in RMC in the July 1989 issue written by Rusty Recordon, he indicated that the in the 1950’s era, the containers were very weathered, without any lettering and appeared to be a Pullman green color based on his viewing some color movies from the period. I have be unable to locate any color photos of these cars and there are few black and white images available.

The Lackawanna served several dairies in the period including Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s. According to the F&C instructions, the Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s containers were all white with black lettering, though even in the few black and white images I have found, the Borden’s containers don’t appear white, but something much darker in shade – perhaps very weathered white?

If anyone has better information on this topic, I would appreciate it. I have posted a photo from the F&C website of the Borden’s containers as a reference.

Thanks.

William E. Botkin

Centennial, CO


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

np328
 

   Tim,   
The wooden match company in the Duluth area was Diamond Match company located in Cloquet, MN. The GN had a line from Duluth/Superior going west through there and the NP had a branch from Carlton, MN going to Cloquet. The Milwaukee had trackage rights over the Twin Cities / Twin Ports line with rights to Cloquet also. All three lines competed for this traffic as there were other decent sized mills in Cloquet making particleboard also.  Cloquet was the terminus for the Cloquet & North Eastern Rwy which was notable for running a number of steam locomotives well into the 1960s. And several Trains photo writeups about Where to still find steam. 

Sulphuric Acid on the spuds. Well that answers it.    McDonalds wanted clean white potatoes for their fries. Maine potatoes had been sent out prior as the standard. However they could not get the uniform whiteness that the commercial market or McD wanted for french fries - so that is when Idaho took over and Maine spuds became an also ran. I recall maybe thirty years ago after some late spring skiing at Sun Valley (girls skiing in bikinis, guys in shorts and T's) my brother and I had a relaxed schedule home and wondered about going south following the UP east to Fremont and heading up from there following the old Omaha line, which was literally on the shoulder of the road at times before it was rebuilt some years ago.  On going south through Idaho, our western friends said no, no, no, they are spraying the potato fields! They want people to stay out area for three days after spraying. That was enough to convince us.  
                                                                                                                                                                                                                             Jim Dick - Roseville, MN


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

Jim Allen
 

They shipped many many cars full of potatoes to the Clover Club potato chip factory in Kaysville, UT.  They said they tasted better than the Idaho ones.  So they probably shipped them elsewhere for the same reason. 
--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

Jim Allen
 

BAR & B&M 
shipped potatoes all over the country.  Clover Club Potato Chips in Kaysville, UT took many shipments of Maine potato’s. They have a taste of their own. 
Jim Allen
Visit oscaledirectory.com


--
Jim Allen
Utah


Re: An image of ACL ventilated boxcars

Donald B. Valentine
 

Nice model Dave. Can you tell me when the ACL changed from yellow to red for the color of

the roads ventilated boxcars? Never realized the light color seen inn black & white photos

of some early ACL cars was yellow until it was mentioned in an earlier post here this week.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

Donald B. Valentine
 

    In earlier years in boxcars but in post war years in gondolas with poles in

place to extend their height one could see B&M cars headed to Florida from

late October till early December each year. By now it should be obvious that

they were carrying Christmas trees. Mostly these were balsam or spruce but

other varieties are now grown as well. Alas they go by truck. Many other goods

manufactured within the B&M’s territory made to Florida by rail as well. What

might they have been loaded with for the trip back?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: An image of ACL ventilated boxcars

Larry Wolohon
 

Rich Yoder brought those out several years ago on O scale & Proto 48.

Larry Wolohon

On 07/06/2020 6:49 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,

An image of ACL ventilated boxcars is linked below... again, too bad the resolution is a little l acking.


Enjoy!

Claus Schlund



Re: Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Donald B. Valentine
 

    Renken’s Dairy also used the roll-on, roll-off milk containers. In several

Photos I have seen of both the Renken and some Borden’s containers seem

to indicate a red color which is also believed to have been used by Sealtest

for cars used by the General Ice Cream Co. that supplied the base mix for

ice cream to ice cream makers.

 

   Hope this helps rather than leaving you more puzzled as color photos are

rare. Be aware that there were at least two and I think three styles of tanks

used as well. Randy has photos of one and I have drawings for another

received from Fruit Growers Express, which basically owned National Car,

long gone facility at Potomac Yard.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Photo: Flood Damaged PFE Reefers

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Bob,

     It is not the fact that some of the siding has come ff of these PFE reefers that I notice so much as

the way it has come off. If you look at both photos the cars all show a 4 and 4 panel pattern on either

side of the doors in the same places n the car sides even if the number of individual boards lost varies.

This leads me to wonder just how these cars were originally constructed or “assembled”. Could it be

that panels of siding were assembled as units before actually being applied to the sides of the cars?

In the interest of saving time during construction this would make some sense as the method is often

found in home construction today wherein a house is constructed of prebuilt panels that are assembled

on site. If so it is the earliest example of this mass-production method I have seen for wood construction.

Perhaps Tony Thompson, as our resident PFE man, has some insight on this.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: Carbon Black drawings?

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Bud,

 

     You are aware, I presume, that someone offered a resin kit for the Cabot Corp. carbon black

cars. If memory serves I believe it was Steve Funaro of F&C.

 

My best, Don Valentine

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10