Date   

Re: NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

Tim O'Connor
 


Elden, some of the them were sold to the D&TS


On 7/10/2020 10:49 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Group;

 

I have searched in vain for my copy of the MM issue in which Bob Hundman outlined the NKP all-steel 50-foot double door box cars, in two series, one of which had Viking roofs.

 

Does anyone on the list know much about these cars?  Were they built for automobile or auto parts service?  I know NKP had plants on-line.

 

They look unique in several ways.  Did some have racks?  Were some or all originally “Damage Free” cars, or did that come later?

 

Do you know anything about the cars that went to P&WV?  They appear to have stenciling that would indicate as assignment.  Any idea to whom?  See attached.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Elden Gatwood



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: UTLX tank cars (was... something completely different)

Steve and Barb Hile
 

UTLX had a business relationship with Graver Tank and Manufacturing that led to it purchasing Graver in 1957.  The underframes and tanks were assembled at the UTLX facility in Whiting, Indiana.

 

More info in the UTLX book, if interested.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 9:43 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] UTLX tank cars (was... something completely different)

 


Thank you Steve - Graver & Whiting! That's a new one on me!



On 7/9/2020 1:01 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

UTLX 96720 would have been part of a group of cars ordered in 1951 but not completed until 1953, so weren’t listed in the Jan 1952 roster, which can be seen in the files section of this group.

 

I probably should have included this information into the roster in the UTLX book, so it was an oversight on my part.

 

Here are three more lines that could be included into Appendix 2

 

96412 – 96461    11,000   Z5-300   ACF        1951       50           50           Lot 3748.  Completed 6-14-52.  Commercial design

96462 – 96712    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       251         251        

96713 – 96949    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       237         236         Completed 4-17-53

 

Bottom line is, no, 96720 is not the Atlas model, it is a UTLX design car with a tank built by Graver and the car assembled at UTLX, Whiting, Indiana.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve  

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 


Does UTLX 96720 look like an ACF built tank car? Is it the same as the Kadee model?

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:50 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: About match-making (so to speak)

Tim O'Connor
 


It's too horrible to contemplate how much fabulous old growth timber was wantonly destroyed. Ugh.

Think of all the old retired freight cars that were simply BURNED in the open to recover the steel.
Millions of freight cars! Compare to the recovery of salt-infused timber from the SP's Salt Lake trestle
that was sold for its beauty in the 1980's or 1990's.

When did paper matchbooks first appear by the way?

Tim O'

On 7/9/2020 1:40 PM, David Soderblom wrote:
About matches:  When Giant Sequoias were being logged ca. 1900 their enormous trunks were used for matches.

David Soderblom


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

I have searched in vain for my copy of the MM issue in which Bob Hundman outlined the NKP all-steel 50-foot double door box cars, in two series, one of which had Viking roofs.

 

Does anyone on the list know much about these cars?  Were they built for automobile or auto parts service?  I know NKP had plants on-line.

 

They look unique in several ways.  Did some have racks?  Were some or all originally “Damage Free” cars, or did that come later?

 

Do you know anything about the cars that went to P&WV?  They appear to have stenciling that would indicate as assignment.  Any idea to whom?  See attached.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Re: AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

earlyrail
 

October 1923 ORER
1400-1463  31 cars (

Howard Garner


Help with car ID

Dave Lotz
 

Hi all,

 

I need help identifying the type and ownership of the car in this background of this image.  The markings are not clear, but I thought that the logo on the side of the ca might reveal its ownership.  The date of the wreck is June 10, 1909, at Aurora, Illinois.

 

Thanks for any help that can be provided!

 

Dave Lotz




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Re: UTLX tank cars (was... something completely different)

Tim O'Connor
 


Thank you Steve - Graver & Whiting! That's a new one on me!



On 7/9/2020 1:01 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

UTLX 96720 would have been part of a group of cars ordered in 1951 but not completed until 1953, so weren’t listed in the Jan 1952 roster, which can be seen in the files section of this group.

 

I probably should have included this information into the roster in the UTLX book, so it was an oversight on my part.

 

Here are three more lines that could be included into Appendix 2

 

96412 – 96461    11,000   Z5-300   ACF        1951       50           50           Lot 3748.  Completed 6-14-52.  Commercial design

96462 – 96712    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       251         251        

96713 – 96949    11,000   X5-300  Graver and Whiting         1952       237         236         Completed 4-17-53

 

Bottom line is, no, 96720 is not the Atlas model, it is a UTLX design car with a tank built by Graver and the car assembled at UTLX, Whiting, Indiana.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Steve  

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 


Does UTLX 96720 look like an ACF built tank car? Is it the same as the Kadee model?

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:50 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Bob and all;

 

I see two Skelgas and at least three other (one being a UTLX), what look like ICC-105-300’s, almost certainly in compressed gas service.  Is there a production area in the vicinity?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Carbon Black Car?

 

Photo: Carbon Black Car?

A 1955 photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

Blockedhttps://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc193102/?q=train

Click on the photo to enlarge it and use the Zoom button to enlarge it further.

The covered hopper appears to be a carbon black car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

 



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Don Burn
 

Tim,

I have seen photos that were definitely not white, but with black lettering that said Borden's Milk I suspect the silver was a transitional scheme as the cars moved towards the chemical division.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:14 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors


I think the aluminum painted cars were for the Chemical Division - I think this was the final paint scheme.


On 7/9/2020 3:49 PM, Don Burn wrote:


From the old MilkTrains group when it was on Yahoo:

Borden cars were painted white(cream?) with Black letterring. In the 1940's, Bordens painted these cars a reddish orange with yellow letterring which was changed to a silver with black letters by the mid fifties.

I suspect you are seeing photos of the silver colored cars.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of webotkin
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 10:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Hi,

I am modeling some milk container cars on the flat cars owned by National Car Company that the DL&W used to carry in their milk trains in the early 1950’s. Funaro and Camerlengo (F&C) has produced these cars in HO as resin kits. In the process of painting the kits, the question is what color are the containers and what were they lettered.

In a review of the kits in RMC in the July 1989 issue written by Rusty Recordon, he indicated that the in the 1950’s era, the containers were very weathered, without any lettering and appeared to be a Pullman green color based on his viewing some color movies from the period. I have be unable to locate any color photos of these cars and there are few black and white images available.

The Lackawanna served several dairies in the period including Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s. According to the F&C instructions, the Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s containers were all white with black lettering, though even in the few black and white images I have found, the Borden’s containers don’t appear white, but something much darker in shade – perhaps very weathered white?

If anyone has better information on this topic, I would appreciate it. I have posted a photo from the F&C website of the Borden’s containers as a reference.

Thanks.

William E. Botkin

Centennial, CO



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: NP steel boxcar

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 05:45 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
I'd like to know what "Wolmanizing" does to the lumber! :-D
Turns it green, for one. It's a preservative treatment so it has many of the same uses as creosote but the chemistry is different.  For more info, do a search on "chromated copper arsenate."

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo Help -- DT&I Boxcar #14300-14549

Tim O'Connor
 

1956 photo

On 7/9/2020 4:06 PM, John Stanford wrote:
I don't have any photos of that series, but I do show they were shopped in 1959 with insullation and plug doors added and renumbered into 19300-19449 series, of which there are several photos - though obviously with different doors.  Dave Mikulec's DT&I page has several photos of those...  http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI19000s40'InsulBoxcar/ArtDTI19300s.html

That might get you started until someone else can come through with the real deal.

-John Stanford

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: An image of ACL ventilated boxcars

ron christensen
 

I took this picture of ACL ventilated boxcar at Thomasville GA may 1964.
Ron Christensen


Re: Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Tim O'Connor
 


I think the aluminum painted cars were for the Chemical Division - I think this was the final paint scheme.


On 7/9/2020 3:49 PM, Don Burn wrote:
From the old MilkTrains group when it was on Yahoo:

Borden cars were painted white(cream?) with Black letterring. In the 1940's, Bordens painted these cars a reddish orange with yellow letterring which was changed to a silver with black letters by the mid fifties.

I suspect you are seeing photos of the silver colored cars.

Don Burn


-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of webotkin
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2020 10:16 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Milk Containers on Flat Cars - Help with Colors

Hi,

 I am modeling some milk container cars on the flat cars owned by National Car Company that the DL&W used to carry in their milk trains in the early 1950’s.  Funaro and Camerlengo (F&C) has produced these cars in HO as resin kits.  In the process of painting the kits, the question is what color are the containers and what were they lettered.

In a review of the kits in RMC in the July 1989 issue written by Rusty Recordon, he indicated that the in the 1950’s era, the containers were very weathered, without any lettering and appeared to be a Pullman green color based on his viewing some color movies from the period.  I have be unable to locate any color photos of these cars and there are few black and white images available.

The Lackawanna served several dairies in the period including Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s.  According to the F&C instructions, the Dairymen’s League, Sheffield and Borden’s containers were all white with black lettering, though even in the few black and white images I have found, the Borden’s containers don’t appear white, but something much darker in shade – perhaps very weathered white?

 If anyone has better information on this topic, I would appreciate it.  I have posted a photo from the F&C website of the Borden’s containers as a reference.

Thanks.

William E. Botkin

Centennial, CO

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi List Members,
 
It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws
 
Claus Schlunnd
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Wayne Cohen wrote:
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

Tim O'Connor
 


Lots of shoes were made in New England. Frye Boots and Rockport were both in Marlboro MA where I used to live.
There's a shoemakers statue in a park there. The New Haven and B&M each had branchlines into Marlboro that served
the shoe factories. The NH branch line runs from Framingham to Fitchburg and is still active (it runs through Sterling, too,
where I now live). The B&M branch from Hudson (where it crossed the old Mass Central) is now a bike trail.


On 7/10/2020 9:47 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io wrote:

Ditto on Dexters.  What I really liked was that I could absolutely rely on the size and fit.  I bought 10½ D without even bothering to try them on.  Once they left Maine, that went to hell in a handbasket.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walter Cox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.

Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

 

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
Listed as series 1403-1463, 29 cars in 12-1930 ORER
 
Note than in this ORER, the series NO LONGER STARTS with 1400! Perhaps that indicates that cars 1400-1402 were no longer in existance. Perhaps it also indicates that maybe car 1403 really DOES still exist within this series at that date
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 9:29 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

Not listed as of Sept 1919 (October ORER).  31 cars listed in series 1400 -1463 in 1925.  At least it narrows it a bit.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Weston via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

 

The Akron, Canton and Youngstown railroad owned 67 gons in the series 1400-1466 These were 40' cars rated for 40 tons. I'm trying to determine when they first appeared on the AC&Y but have no ORERs. Can someone possibly help me here? Thanks! Bob Weston


Re: AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

Ray Breyer
 

The cars appear in the October 1926 ORER (1400-1463, 31 cars). Sadly, I don't have an ORER between 11/1917 and 10/1926.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Friday, July 10, 2020, 08:01:10 AM CDT, Bob Weston via groups.io <oandle@...> wrote:


Forgot to add they appeared sometime between 919 and 1939.


Re: Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Ditto on Dexters.  What I really liked was that I could absolutely rely on the size and fit.  I bought 10½ D without even bothering to try them on.  Once they left Maine, that went to hell in a handbasket.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Walter Cox via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 12:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Apparently, Boston & Maine boxcars made it to Florida

 

Were Dexter shoes sold that far west? When they were actually made in Maine they were all I bought.

Walt

In a message dated 7/8/2020 9:07:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, drpaasch@... writes:

 

They wouldn't ship spuds or cranberries from Maine to the west coast as Washington and Idaho are spud country, and Washington and Oregon grow cranberries (Ocean Spray).  But B&M beans are THE best and certainly were shipped to the west!

Paper not likely as Washington had gobs of paper mills.  But I have been looking at how to justify a BAR reefer and some BM cars to appear on my Seattle layout and any more ideas would be welcome.  All I can think of for a BAR reefer is fresh lobster?  I like the idea of the BM car carrying B&M beans to some grocery distributors, too.

  Doug Paasch

 


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Wayne Cohen
 

Thank you Tim, and all who responded.

I haven’t snapped heads installing them; rather, they snapped in service.  Still, I think Tim is on to something.  I’ll try the new ones on one or two cars - ensuring they are only snug rather than tight - and see how they do.

The latest iteration of the Kadee has a nice appearance: slightly flatter and wider head, and matte finish as compared to the shiny old ones. Rarely any need to paint them either, of course.


Tim O’Connor wrote:
I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.
--
Wayne Cohen


Re: AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Not listed as of Sept 1919 (October ORER).  31 cars listed in series 1400 -1463 in 1925.  At least it narrows it a bit.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Weston via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] AC&Y 1400-1466 series gondolas

 

The Akron, Canton and Youngstown railroad owned 67 gons in the series 1400-1466 These were 40' cars rated for 40 tons. I'm trying to determine when they first appeared on the AC&Y but have no ORERs. Can someone possibly help me here? Thanks! Bob Weston


Re: NP steel boxcar

Pierre Oliver
 

It’s also know as pressure treated lumber
All that green and brown stuff for decks and fences

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com


On Jul 10, 2020, at 9:10 AM, Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...> wrote:


On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 7:46 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I'd like to know what "Wolmanizing" does to the lumber! :-D



On 7/6/2020 10:41 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
NP steel boxcar with "Dantzler Lumber & Export Company employee loading a North Pacific Railway car - Jacksonville, Florida"
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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