Date   

Re: Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Ohio River Railroad Boxcar 2701
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
Built by Ensign Manufacturing Company of Huntington, W. Va.

  Nice Builder photo! The weigh date appears to be 1898.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load
An undated photo from West Virginia University:
1935 or later.

     Nice shot of the classic channel-rib design.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

 


Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Ten of the HPT&D cars went to West India Fruit. they were built with Duryea underframes. By about the mid-fifties—maybe later—the remaining HPT&D cars received Silver and Maroon or Purple and Silver. Not in what order or could have been at the same time. Sunshine offered kit for both HPT&D and WIF.

Bill Welch


Match and Strawboard Making

Matt Goodman
 
Edited

Mr. Barber also has a connection with another relatively “behind the scenes” industry - strawboard production (one of my areas of interest). Mr. Barber’s formed the Portage Strawboard in 1882 - not too long after Diamond Match was formed. He merged Portage with American Strawboard by 1889, which he continued to operate until his death in 1920. American Strawboard later became Mid-West Box Company, then finally (for the purposes of this list, anyway) the Container Corporation of America.
 
According to my notes, Diamond Match consumed a good deal of the strawboard produced in New Portage, Ohio (later Barberton). Most of the product created in strawboard mills was used for packaging - so perhaps match boxes, in this case.
 
Several early American Strawboard cars were rebuilt by Ralston Steel Car Company in Columbus, Ohio. See a few images here. (thanks to Columbus Railroads web guy for curating these, and to Eric Hansmann for the reminder).
 
By the way, thanks for stating Mr. Barber’s full name, Thomas. The references I have were limited to “C. Barber”. When I read his name in your post (Ohio Columbus Barber), I was fairly sure there had been some copy and paste error - I just could not figure out that sentence (confused all the more by the fact that I live in Columbus, Ohio)! Thanks to Wikipedia for the “ah-ha” moment.
 
Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US
Modeling Circleville, Ohio (home of the second Portage Mill) in 1938

On Jul 11, 2020, at 12:18 PM, Thomas Klosterman <tom.klosterman@...> wrote:
Eventually (early 20th century) most of the matches in the US were manufactured in Barberton, Ohio [Diamond Match and others served by the A&BBRR (the "Belt Line") from interchange with the PRR] and Wadsworth, Ohio (nearby and served by the Erie). Many men in Barberton worked at the match factories. My father, as a youth, worked as a "block feeder," feeding blocks of (probably) these or similar blocks made from trees like this into a machine that produced matchsticks. My Grandfather worked in the dipping tank area. The Blue Tip Match was made in Wadsworth with the same equipment until the 1980's. The town still celebrates the Blue Tip Festival. 
Diamond match was started and owned by Ohio Columbus Barber (who planned and started the town), hence "Barberton." He also started the Belt Line (and many other manufacturers in town) and eventually sold it to a combination of PRR. B&O, Erie and maybe the AC&Y.  Interesting history here.


Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: ATSF Gondola 75473 Looking A Little Tired

An undated photo from the Oklahoma Historical Society:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc612705/?q=railroad

As some of you may know, the numbering structure for Santa Fe gondolas was less than orderly. As near as I can tell this is a Class Ga-87 gondola and was built in 1954. The car was fifty-three feet long.

A model of this car probably would make a good track cleaner.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Eric,

Thanks.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works


On Sunday, July 12, 2020, 03:10:29 PM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Here’s an image from the Steam Era Freight Cars website. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 12, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s an image from the Steam Era Freight Cars website. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 12, 2020, at 3:06 PM, Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Don Burn
 

There is a picture in Speedwich's "Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual Volume One: Box and Automobile Cars".

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Huber via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 3:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Any pictures of those HPT&D cars?
oldline1


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

Any pictures of those HPT&D cars?
oldline1


Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

David
 

It depends on how far from "1923 ARA" you want to go. If you're counting the X28, then the N&W BP, BS, and BT classes would also count. Closer to home, Erie, PM, and NKP had auto boxes based on the ARA design, and Erie had some 9'4" single-door cars.

David Thompson


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Don Burn
 

Bill,

Are these different from the USRA Steel boxcars the Reading had that were 9' 3" with plate ends? I checked Tim's mention of CNJ, and definitely found they had 200 cars that were 1923 ARA design but taller.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2020 11:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Indeed the CNJ cars and the Reading has cars with plate ends and similar roofs to PRR, I think. No idea about the underframe however.

Bill Welch


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Bill Welch
 

Indeed the CNJ cars and the Reading has cars with plate ends and similar roofs to PRR, I think. No idea about the underframe however.

Bill Welch


Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Tim O'Connor
 


Didn't the CNJ have some taller automobile cars (similar to X28)?


On 7/12/2020 10:55 AM, Don Burn wrote:
I was wondering besides the 5000 PRR X28, the 2000 B&O M-27 and M-27A, and the 25 High Point, Thomasville & Denton cars, were there any other 1923 ARA Steel boxcars with heights different from 8' 7"?

Don Burn

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Don Burn
 

I was wondering besides the 5000 PRR X28, the 2000 B&O M-27 and M-27A, and the 25 High Point, Thomasville & Denton cars, were there any other 1923 ARA Steel boxcars with heights different from 8' 7"?

Don Burn


Re: Maximum Capacity Gondolas

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
The PRR gon that is the topic of the second paragraph is the lone PRR class G23 car - see link below:
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 8:17 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Maximum Capacity Gondolas

Maximum Capacity Gondolas

The text below is from the book, Car Shop Practice:

A Practical Textbook For The Instruction Of Mechanics, Helpers, And Apprentices In Railway Car Departments, Including Car Building And Repair Shops, Etc., /Prepared Under The Supervision And With The Approval Of An Editorial Advisory Board Of Railway Mechanical Officials.

This book was published by the Railway Training Institute in 1926.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

The 120-Ton Coal Car.—The largest freight car in commercial use at present is the 120-ton steel coal car. This is a type of gondola of which a large number were put into service on the Virginian Railway in 1921, after three years of exceptional test of four sample cars of this type and capacity had satisfied the managers of the road that such cars were both practicable and economical for their regular service. The most novel feature of this car is its size. It is 49 ft. 6 in. long by 10 ft. 23/4 in. wide inside, and has a depth at the center of 8 ft. 51/8 in. and at the ends over trucks of 7 ft. 41/4 in. The capacity is 3,840 cubic feet level full, or 4,450 cubic feet with a 30-degree heap. This latter figure, with coal at 54 lbs. per cubic foot, is equivalent to a capacity of 240,000 lbs., or 120 tons, which is the load the car is designed to carry. It has the general appearance of a modern quadruple hopper car, but has no hoppers, drop floors, or means of discharge other than the top; and is operated solely on the lines of the Virginian Railway, and dumped only in car dumping machines.

Maximum Capacity Gondola, P. R. R.—A steel gondola of slightly greater capacity even than the Virginian 120-ton car was exhibited in 1919 at the Atlantic City convention of the Master Car Builders’ Association, now merged in the Mechanical Division, American Railway Association. This was one of two cars then just completed for the Pennsylvania Railroad from designs prepared prior to the advent of the United States Railway Administration and approved by it for construction. The body of this car was fabricated from plates and pressed steel shapes after approved modern practice, while the trucks represented several new and novel features in design. The inside length of the car is 48 feet 6 in., height of side above rail 11 ft. 6 in., weight of car 74,600 lbs., load capacity 242,000 lbs., or 121 tons.


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

We used to have a lot of surplus places here in Michigan. They mostly started as military surplus dealers after WWII, then switched to industrial surplus. They had lots of hardware, electronics, assorted metals & plastics. One could spend hours wading through these places. All “cash & carry” and mostly in bulk. Their sources for such things slowly dried-up as many industries closed, and interested customers disappeared since nobody wants to really *DO* anything anymore. Same story for the used machinery dealers, especially for small machines. There’s hardly a one left around here anymore.

Even the new material industrial supplies have mostly disappeared. The few left are mostly very expensive, and they often don’t want to deal with small quantity buyers.  They want to sell a few thousand of something, or maybe a couple hundred pounds of it. Same for tools … if you want something better than Harbor Freight you’re out of luck. I’m forced to obtain most of my tools and materials via the internet.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Jul 11, 2020, at 6:44 PM, George Corral <aileron44@...> wrote:

Great place to spend hours noodling around for surplus aircraft grade you name it.  Lived just around the corner.  Haven't been in that store for years.  Was Joe Factors then.  Left over store from aircraft production support businesses for Lockheed and war production.

Luky's Hardware

Another great place was San Fernando Hardware.  Don't know if it still exists.

George Corral


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Dennis Storzek
 

If one wants blackened, non-magnetic button head screws, McMaster Carr has them:
https://www.mcmaster.com/97763a314
 
The link should get you on the right page and then search for the desired length from there. Admittedly, 18-8 is not totally non-magnetic, but is much less so than steel.

Dennis Storzek


Re: About match-making (so to speak)

Doug Paasch
 

Nice shot of the sawdust burner as well as the loco.  A lot of good details seen on the sawdust burner that will help me model one.  Thanks for the unexpected detail!

   Doug Paasch


On Jul 11, 2020 5:56 PM, "Garth Groff and Sally Sanford" <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Gary,

Diamond Match also had a major plant at Red Bluff. Both plants were switched by 4-wheel GE diesels. I don't know about matches, but I think both plants were involved in dimensional lumber. When I was a youngster, there were Diamond Match hardware stores/lumber yards all over California, the Lowes of their day. Attached are my father's photos from the late 1960s or early 1970s. The yellow engine is Chico, the orange is Red Bluff.

The Diamond Match plant in Barber built at least one wooden electric locomotive, CE/NE/SN 701, for the Chico Electric Railway (later Northern Electric, then Sacramento Northern).  Diamond Match and the Northern Electric had a close relationship, and I think many of the NE officers were also associated with Diamond Match.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:23 PM Gary Ray <gerber1926@...> wrote:

Even though Barberton, Ohio, was the original site of Diamond Match, they had a hugh west coast factory occupying 280 acres in Barber, CA (now part of Chico).  The first air conditioning system for industry was developed for this facility for the summer months (101 yesterday @ 6 pm).  This helped eliminate Fumes that would build up causing phosphorus necrosis.  I’ve attached a couple of photos.  The first is feeding the blocks and the second is cutting blocks and setting matches into plates.  These photos are from the Ohio facility.

 

Gary Ray

Magalia, CA

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@....io] On Behalf Of Thomas Klosterman
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 9:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] About match-making (so to speak)

 

Eventually (early 20th century) most of the matches in the US were manufactured in Barberton, Ohio [Diamond Match and others served by the A&BBRR (the "Belt Line") from interchange with the PRR] and Wadsworth, Ohio (nearby and served by the Erie). Many men in Barberton worked at the match factories. My father, as a youth, worked as a "block feeder," feeding blocks of (probably) these or similar blocks made from trees like this into a machine that produced matchsticks. My Grandfather worked in the dipping tank area. The Blue Tip Match was made in Wadsworth with the same equipment until the 1980's. The town still celebrates the Blue Tip Festival. 
Diamond match was started and owned by Ohio Columbus Barber (who planned and started the town), hence "Barberton." He also started the Belt Line (and many other manufacturers in town) and eventually sold it to a combination of PRR. B&O, Erie and maybe the AC&Y.  Interesting history here.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


Re: End and Roof Color - WM #4001-4050 Series Boxcars #4001-4050

John King
 

Bob,

 

In the book Western Maryland Railway Revenue Equipment Boxcars and Refrigerator Cars (published by the WMRY Historical Society) the black and white builders photo of the first car in the 28801 to 29000 series clearly shows a darker color for the ends and roof and the author points out that the ends and roof were black.  The two b&w builders photos of the first car in the 4001 to 4050 series  show no difference in color or shade between the sides and the ends/roof and there is no mention of black roof or ends in the captions/description.   Based on the that I think it is a reasonable guess that the ends and roof of the 4001 was the same color as the sides.

 

John King  

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Robert Chapman
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2020 7:59 PM
To: STMFC E-List
Subject: [RealSTMFC] End and Roof Color - WM #4001-4050 Series Boxcars

 

Currently working on a boxcar project involving Western Maryland #4001-4050 series boxcar (postwar AAR, R-3-4 end, blt 7/51). 

 

My question -- when built, were the ends and/or roof of this series black car cement?

 

Comments:

In the Speedwitch decal data sheet (covering cars through the previous #29210-29300 series of 1951), Ted Culotta comments "the postwar design cars prominently featured ends with black car cement".

 

In RMJ 11/90, Ed Hawkins comments on the subsequent #4201-4450 series of 9/53, "(red) for sides and ends, color of roof...left to discretion of the modeler".

 

Looks like my series could go either way -- I'll welcome any new insight.

 

Thanks!

Bob Chapman

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