Date   

Re: An image of ACL ventilated boxcars

thomas christensen
 

A few more paint diagrams and notes.
Tom Christensen 

















On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 5:50 PM, palmettoltd82
<palmettoLTD@...> wrote:
The original ACL Atlantic Coast Despatch paint scheme (yellow ochre body, boxcar red & white herald, black lettering, boxcar red trim) was officially dropped in 1929 in favor of the more cost effective brown with white lettering.  The attached photo of Rich Yoders O-scale O-17 model shows the pre-1929 paint scheme.   The pre-29 paint scheme was also applied to ACL subsidiary roads such as the Washington & Vandermere (with ACD herald) and the Winston-Salem Southbound Rwy (sans ACD herald).  The ACL also modified 50 class O-12 vents for express service. The cars (Nos. 1800-1849) were painted Pullman dark green and lettered in white.  The 0-12s were returned to the freight service with the conversion of the 50 USRA DS rebuilds (1850-1899).  Hope this helps.


Re: Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads
Some 1917 photos from the Historic Pittsburgh website.
Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.
63133
63128
63134

     Nice photos of VERY full loads. The "Pee-Mickey," as it was known in Pittsburgh, though long part of P&LE, remained in view for many years because P&LE apparently saw no need to rush reprinting the reporting marks.
      As late as 1953, the ORER shows over 3000 PMcK&Y cars among the 26,000 P&LE fleet.

Tony Thompson




Re: Non-standard height 1923 ARA Steel boxcars

Eric Lombard
 

Hi, Everyone....
Don Burn asked : "...were there any other 1923 ARA Steel boxcars with heights different from 8' 7"?"
It appears that 10 of the HPT&D cars were sold to West India Fruit and Steam Ship Co. in 1948 as WIF 101-110. I have not discovered any primary documentation for this transaction. However, comparative ORER counts, ORER dimensions, and photos provide a strong case for this. The HPT&D cars were built with a unique SSC design door that also appears on the WIF cars, for example. Here is a photo for comparison of WIF 106, which if actually taken in Vancouver, BC, is a very, very long way from Havana. The WIF&SS Co. went under in August of 1961, a victim of the Cuban revolution. Disposition of their several series of box cars is unknown to me.

Happy Rails to you....
Eric L
Homewood, IL



On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 9:55 AM Don Burn <burn@...> wrote:
I was wondering besides the 5000 PRR X28, the 2000 B&O M-27 and M-27A, and the 25 High Point, Thomasville & Denton cars, were there any other 1923 ARA Steel boxcars with heights different from 8' 7"?

Don Burn






Re: Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

Eric Hansmann
 

Many early Pennsy boxcars had left-opening doors. It would fall in line that a ventilated door on a Pennsy car would open to the right, leaving the solid door to open left.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kenneth Montero
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 11:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

 

Note the vents near the top of the car, just under the fascia. Also, the ventilated door is the right side door, which I had not seen before.

 

The Pennsylvania operated (but did not own) the New York, Philadelphia and Norfolk, which ran down the Delmarva Peninsula into Virginia. That area was a major truck farming area for the Northeastern cities markets. Lots of produce went on that line from the Delmarva Peninsula farms to those markets. It would make sense for the Pennsylvania to have ventilator cars for that produce.

 

Ken Montero

On 07/13/2020 11:38 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

 

 

Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

A 1914 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A201203.1914.8099/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The last four car numbers are 8331. This car was build in 1897.

PRR 103558 is in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

Kenneth Montero
 

Note the vents near the top of the car, just under the fascia. Also, the ventilated door is the right side door, which I had not seen before.

The Pennsylvania operated (but did not own) the New York, Philadelphia and Norfolk, which ran down the Delmarva Peninsula into Virginia. That area was a major truck farming area for the Northeastern cities markets. Lots of produce went on that line from the Delmarva Peninsula farms to those markets. It would make sense for the Pennsylvania to have ventilator cars for that produce.

Ken Montero

On 07/13/2020 11:38 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

A 1914 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A201203.1914.8099/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The last four car numbers are 8331. This car was build in 1897.

PRR 103558 is in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

Ben and others are right; this is most certainly a ballast cleaning train.

 

I got educated up on the by Al Buchan, Bob Yagodich and others over a period of years.

 

It was important to clean out ballast as it became clogged with fines, over time, to prevent water build up in same that would promote blow-outs or undermining of the roadbed or fill.  Also to prevent water build-up that would cause waterlogging and rotting of ties.  Good pore space in ballast promoted rapid drainage of the ballast to the ditches on either side.

 

Ballast-cleaning evolved greatly over the years, from crews of manual laborers cleaning the ballast mostly by hand tools and side-casting, to something like this, in which a trains of hoppers with conveyors (except for the last one to left), with a ballast cleaner up front near the engine, was dragged slowly over the track, removing contaminated ballast, and conveying it to the next to last car filled, for disposal into a hopper.  The entire train was filled back to front, then taken to a dump trestle to dump the hopprs.  Ballast was replaced by clean-ballast-containg hoppers with spreaders mounted beneath, where track gangs pushed/shoveled the ballast into place between and alongside the tie structure.

 

These are mid-life H21A in their glory:  Top chord reinforcements in full view, prior to the large H21A to H21E rebuildings.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Benjamin Hom
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 12:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

"Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

Blockedhttps://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200905.233.HF/viewer "

 

This is actually a ballast cleaning train.

 

 

Ben Hom


Re: Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

David Soderblom
 

This may be a ballast cleaning operation, from the daisy-chained conveyors.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA






Re: Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200905.233.HF/viewer "


This is actually a ballast cleaning train.



Ben Hom


Re: Photo: PRR Hopper Cars Receiving Coal

Robert Allan
 

I'm guessing since that photo,s on the main track, it might be a ballast cleaning train.

Great photo of the H21 at work.

Bob Allan
Omaha


Re: Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
"Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads

Some 1917 photos from the Historic Pittsburgh website.

Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.

63133
https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01048/viewer 

63128
https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01045/viewer 

63134
https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01049/viewer "

Nice find!  PMcK&Y 63000-64999, Lot 368-H, built by SSC, 1917.  They resemble an original PRR Class H21 hopper with skirts.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-368.jpg
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/pmcky-63698.jpg

These were more numerous than you think - 2,000 cars in revenue service through 1953.


Ben Hom




Photo: Heinz Wagon On Flatcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Heinz Wagon On Flatcar

A 1911 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3AMSP57.B014.I02/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Description: "Along with the high quality of its products, H.J. Heinz Company was known for the elegance of its delivery service. Horse-drawn delivery wagons (likely white with green trimmings) carried boxes of Heinz goods, including mince meat, apple butter, and tomato relish. This type of delivery wagon (pictured here) was drawn by a pair of prize-winning draft horses favored by H.J. Heinz, an expert on horses. The company’s more than 200 horses, mostly pure Percherons, pulled the delivery wagons."

Too bad there is not more of the flatcar visible.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Ventilated Boxcar

A 1914 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A201203.1914.8099/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

The last four car numbers are 8331. This car was build in 1897.

PRR 103558 is in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Pittsburgh, McKeesport & Youghiogheny Hoppers 63133 With Coal Loads

Some 1917 photos from the Historic Pittsburgh website.

Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.

63133

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01048/viewer

63128

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01045/viewer

63134

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A200907.1917.01049/viewer

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Gondola 384661

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Gondola 384661

A 1941 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.7300.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Freight Car Under Construction

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Freight Car Under Construction

A circa 1920 photo from the Historic Pittsburgh website:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A20110217-hpicpitcairn-0163/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Description: "The Pitcairn Yards shops could not only repair and refurbish railroad rolling stock, but the skilled workmen could also build complete cars in the carpentry shops. This picture shows a construction crew doing just that."

Looks to me like this is a new wood superstructure on an existing underframe.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks again, Tim!  I think they are fascinating cars, and worthy of at least a resin kit, but auto and auto parts cars seem strangely of less interest.  Sunshine did a nice group of auto parts cars, but I expect this was a pattern-maker interest not general public.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 11:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

 


Elden, some of the them were sold to the D&TS


On 7/10/2020 10:49 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Group;

 

I have searched in vain for my copy of the MM issue in which Bob Hundman outlined the NKP all-steel 50-foot double door box cars, in two series, one of which had Viking roofs.

 

Does anyone on the list know much about these cars?  Were they built for automobile or auto parts service?  I know NKP had plants on-line.

 

They look unique in several ways.  Did some have racks?  Were some or all originally “Damage Free” cars, or did that come later?

 

Do you know anything about the cars that went to P&WV?  They appear to have stenciling that would indicate as assignment.  Any idea to whom?  See attached.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Elden Gatwood

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Match and Strawboard Making

Eric Hansmann
 

This Atlas and Industrial Geography of Summit County (Ohio) is a fascinating look back at Akron, Barberton, and other communities. The maps are similar to Sanborn maps but document the infrastructure. Barberton index is on page 85. Maps featuring Diamond Match, American Strawboard, Babcock & Wilcox, and the American Sewer Pipe plant (later becoming American Vitrified) are on pages 87, 88, and 93.

https://www.summitmemory.org/digital/collection/new-maproom/id/492

 

Barberton would make a great setting for manageable sized steam era layout. Don’t miss the pages in the last third of the book with period images of factories, homes, and businesses.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Thomas Klosterman
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 8:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Match and Strawboard Making

 

Yes, indeed, Barberton was New Portage early on. The location of the central part of each was not the quite same, but geographically close. The center of Barberton is a little south of New Portage, both on the Ohio Canal.

Are the early (or any of) these  companies related to the paper box company in Rittman, Ohio? This is west of Barberton on the old Erie.  I think it had the name of Ohio Straw Board for a while.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Al;

 

Thanks so much!  I suspected the DT&S cars were out of this group, but no proof til now.

 

Those photos are excellent!

 

I had a stand-in Athearn box car for DT&S (yeah, I know…) at one time that was a medium blue.  Was that the scheme these guys had?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allan Smith
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 2:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] NKP 50ft double door box cars some with Viking roofs questions

 

Try Mainline Modeler August 2006 by Mont Switzer'  Also try NKP Freight Equipment Diagrams — Nickel Plate Road Historical & Technical Society

 

 


NKP Freight Equipment Diagrams — Nickel Plate Road Historical & Technica...

Now to complete the trifecta I present some freight car diagram books from our archives.

 

 

Al Smith

Sonora CA

On Friday, July 10, 2020, 08:00:12 AM PDT, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

 

 


Elden, some of the them were sold to the D&TS


On 7/10/2020 10:49 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Group;

 

I have searched in vain for my copy of the MM issue in which Bob Hundman outlined the NKP all-steel 50-foot double door box cars, in two series, one of which had Viking roofs.

 

Does anyone on the list know much about these cars?  Were they built for automobile or auto parts service?  I know NKP had plants on-line.

 

They look unique in several ways.  Did some have racks?  Were some or all originally “Damage Free” cars, or did that come later?

 

Do you know anything about the cars that went to P&WV?  They appear to have stenciling that would indicate as assignment.  Any idea to whom?  See attached.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Elden Gatwood

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Western Maryland Hopper 20049 With Coal Load

Eric Hansmann
 

I have a 1927 WM fleet inventory file that Larry Kline compiled over 20 years ago. This specific car number (20165) is not among the inventory but it appears in the 1943 ORER in the 165000-21199 car series. Larry’s inventory noted the 165000-17699 hoppers were built in the Company Shops in December 1927, and notes 4629 cars listed in the January 1943 ORER.

 

USRA control of the WM was not kind to their hopper fleet. The USRA used loaded cars to warehouse coal until there was a need. Water added to coal results in an acid that plays havoc with sheet steel. When USRA control was relinquished in March 1920, much of the WM coal hopper fleet needed major repair.

 

Larry worked with Bill Oertly to compile historic data on the WM freight car fleet. They found the company embarked on a major hopper rebuilding program that started in late 1927. The WM bought 500 new hoppers (15000-15499) from Bethlehem Steel in February 1927, which are the original channel side stake hoppers with end sills similar to the USRA hopper design. The rebuilding program copied elements of these new cars. Many of the oldest WM hoppers were retired. Just before WW1, the company installed 2817 cars from Pullman in May 1916, and another 1926 hoppers from Pullman in January 1917. These cars were the rebuilding targets. Attached is one of the Pullman built WM hoppers in the Pittsburgh P&LE yards, circa 1926. Note the heavy end sill and T-Section Bettendorf trucks similar to the components on WM 20165 shared in the original link.

https://wvhistoryonview.org/image/001988.jpg

 

I noticed a 1926 build date stencil on WM 20165. Larry and I had several discussions about the WM fleet before he passed away. In one of those conversations he mentioned the hopper rebuilding program probably started before 1927. I was modeling the WM in a November 1926 setting back then, so I had a major interest in properly modeling the hopper fleet. WM 20165 may have been one of the early rebuilds.

 

Additionally, it seems some rebuilt cars received an updated built date stencil during this period. I’ve seen images of a few B&O freight cars rebuilt in the Teens at the Ralston Steel Car Company. The cars received steel center sills and updated hardware to comply with the 1911 amendment to the Safety Appliances Act. They have updated built date stencils from that work, not the original built dates from 10-12 years previous.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Match and Strawboard Making

Thomas Klosterman
 

Yes, indeed, Barberton was New Portage early on. The location of the central part of each was not the quite same, but geographically close. The center of Barberton is a little south of New Portage, both on the Ohio Canal.

Are the early (or any of) these  companies related to the paper box company in Rittman, Ohio? This is west of Barberton on the old Erie.  I think it had the name of Ohio Straw Board for a while.

10601 - 10620 of 186242