Date   

Re: Heinz plant locations

mel perry
 

while on the suject of heinz, there used
to be a site dedicated to the heinz
freightcars (long since disappreared),
question i have is, after the 34' boxcars,
were there 36' cars, the reason for the
question is that the 36' cars have been
referenced by kit makers & decal
producers, but i have not found any
documentation to support this contention, if anyone can provide a
source, it would be greatly appreciated,
fyi the various decal/dry transfer
ptoducers, appear to use the red/green
for the 34's and the red yellow for both
the 34's & 36's 
thanks
mel perry


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’m not being picky, Fenton!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 3:02 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

BTW, USS Gary was a big producer.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 2:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Heinz plant locations

David Soderblom
 

I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA







Re: Aluminum body reefers

Tony Thompson
 

I'm thinking PFE paid the railroads by the mile to handle their cars, not by the ton, so the only benefit of lighter aluminum cars was to the shipper.  He could load tonnage on the aluminum car. 

       Actually, the railroads paid PFE by the mile for use of the cars (and also paid them for icing). The shipper paid according the tariff to the delivering railroad, which then distributed shares to the railroads that handled the car en route (yep, armies of clerks in that day), and the railroads in turn paid PFE. 
        But you are right that PFE itself did not really care about car weight. In fact, most produce in its shipping containers is really not very dense. PFE continued to operate considerable number of 30-ton reefers through the 1960s, and even their modern steel ice cars were 40-ton cars. The impression I got from Earl Hopkins, the retired PFE CMO I interviewed, is that PFE did want to keep up with modern freight car design. Aluminum just didn't turn out to be part of that in the era of the PFE aluminum cars.

This sort of mirrors the slow adoption of roller bearing trucks on freight cars.  Railroads liked to equip cars with roller bearings that stayed on home rails thus allowing any benefit from the additional investment to come back to the investor.  No sense investing in making your cars easier for other railroads to pull them.

      I would agree with this.

Tony Thompson




Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg

The location probably is Barstow, CA.

I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps.

Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Document: Rules For Loading Materials

Bob Chaparro
 

Document: Rules For Loading Materials

A 1917 PRR document archived by the PRR Railfan website:

http://prr.railfan.net/documents/LoadingRules-1917.pdf

This link may load very slowly.

Another resource for those of you modeling earlier times. The document has over 100 pages and contains charts and illustrations.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Bill as I want to do that as well.
Fenton

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:21 PM Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:
Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Bill Welch
 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


Re: EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Ray Hutchison
 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Douglas Harding
 

Peter I have a few more photos of SLSX cars, most from the 71000 series. Also the 3600 you have and a couple from the 72000 series. All have the letterboard, so I would suspect the board is missing in your photo. 3600 is a single deck car, 71000 cars are double deck, with four doors, 72000 are single deck cars.

From notes: 71038 was built 12-31 and 72221 is marked as a GATC car. Swift sold their reefer and tankcar fleets to General American in 1930/31. I assume the stockcars were included in this sale.

 

The Lifelike Proto 2000 (now Walthers) Mather car was offered as a double deck with four doors. To my knowledge it is the only HO doubledeck stockcar with four doors. The doors could be used in a kitbash on another car. The Red caboose 36’ SP car comes to mind and the Intermountain 40’ ATSF car.

 

NISX is North American Car Corp. NA purchased Mather in the late 50s. You could see Mather stockcars relettered for NISX in your era. Also beginning in the very late 50s some Mather cars were rebuilt/stretched into 50’ cars. CBQ, B&O, NYC, and perhaps others ran these cars, both single and double deck. The late Stan Radarowicz offered a kit for kitbashing these 50’ cars.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


Re: EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Larry Buell
 

The through truss bridge, at MP 36.4, in the photo spans the I and M canal old turning basin adjacent to the Des Plaines River.  There are two main tracks that cross that bridge; our Bridge Dept. repainted the bridge with silver/aluminum paint in the mid to late 1980’s.

Larry Buell (ATSF)


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Fenton, for a) remembering this email of mine, more than two months later, and b) the offer to share your stock of “stuff.”  I’d love to have the roof to make that kit complete, but I still have a nagging question about when the roofs were replaced.  PROBABLY someone answered that question, but of course, I have completely forgotten what the answer was.  In any event I can always weather the roof substantially if it turns out it should have a newer roof and explain that this particular car has been AWOL from the LNE shops . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:12 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it

Fenton

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Heinz plant locations

Ray Breyer
 

In case any of you need a ketchup or pickle fix on your layout, and are itching to run a vat or vinegar car or two, information can be scarce on the ground regarding just where these industries were located.

So here's a 1910 Heinz map showing plant locations:
https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanypr00hjhe

And here's a 1946 map:

Quick stats: in 1910, Heinz had 13 packing plants, 6 vinegar plants, 67 salting stations, and 40 branch warehouses. In 1946, they had 15 packing plants, 112 salting stations, 77 fresh produce receiving stations, and 71 branch warehouses.

Keep in mind that this is less than a third of the industry represented. 


And in case anyone care, here's most of the Heinz annual reports from 1946-2010.
https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanyannualreports

And a nifty old Heinz informational film.
https://archive.org/details/1092BigDeliveryWagonThe

Now go out and buy Westerfield and Sunshine pickle industry cars!


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

James Brewer
 

Peter,

A partial answer.  According to my July 1958 ORER:

SLSX 71000 - 71999 - double deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 6" width, 8' 7" height) - 344 in service
SLSX 3100 - 38899 - single deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 55 in service
SLSX 3900 - 3999 - single deck stock cars (36' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 34 in service

I could not locate the reporting marks NISX in this issue of the ORER.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Peter Ness
 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

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