Date   

Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Douglas Harding
 

Looks to be a standard AAR 53’ 6” flatcar, which had a extreme deck width of 10’ 6”. Note how the deck boards overhang the stake pockets, with cut outs for the pockets.

The CGW had two lots of these flats, totaling 200 cars.

Chicago Great Western

3800-3899            100         1940       Pullman

                3900-3999            100         1944       Pullman

 

It looks like the car number is 3930. If it is that would put the photo date as 1944, when the car was brand new. The deck boards look fairly untouched.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Brusgard
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

 

Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Andy Brusgard <ajb1102@...>
 

Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".


Re: Heinz plant locations

Matthew Hurst
 

Heinz has a plant in Winchester, VA served by the Baltimore and Ohio. Vinegar and pickle cars were seen in town. 

Also National Fruit, served by the Pennsylvania Railroad, has a small collection of vinegar cars and would traverse the PRR. 

Matthew Hurst
PRRT&HS #6799
PRRT&HS modeling committee 


On Jul 16, 2020, at 4:05 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


hunt's had a huge cannery in hayward,
most of it long gone, except the portion
that belongs to costco's business center
mel perry

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:56 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


pickle cars in California (was Re: Heinz plant locations)

Tim O'Connor
 


It happened. Not a lot. But it happened. Photo from Roseville CA in 1940.



On 7/16/2020 4:47 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
And, as for seeing Heinz cars:

In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers

By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars

Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers).

I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Looks spot on to me !


On 7/16/2020 3:02 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dave Parker
 

And, as for seeing Heinz cars:

In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers

By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars

Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers).

I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Douglas Harding
 

David, Heinz was much more than pickles. They have a plant in Muscatine IA, here is a story from the local paper.

 

For many years, Iowa tomato growers had a buyer for their crop in Muscatine.

 

Kraft Heinz’s second production facility — and the company’s first outside Pittsburgh — was constructed in Muscatine in 1893. It originally processed sauerkraut, horseradish and pickles.

 

The plant added ketchup and other tomato products in 1898. Muscatine was then in the heart of a tomato-growing region that included western Illinois. For many decades, the plant was taking in tons of tomatoes during the months of August and September and turning out millions of bottles of ketchup.

 

That changed in 1991 when Kraft Heinz switched to using tomato paste for production of ketchup and other tomato products, according to Michael Mullen, senior vice president of corporate and government affairs at Kraft Heinz.

 

Mullen said the Muscatine plant remains a strategic facility, producing ketchup, mustard, barbecue sauces, honey, hot sauce, cocktail sauce and sweet-and-sour sauces.

 

It is quite likely those California plants were processing California tomatoes. Or turning cabbage into sauerkraut. Or any of the other Heinz products. As to “Heinz” cars. Attached is a photo I took of the Muscatine plant loading tracks 8 years ago. Don’t see a single car labeled Heinz. All are large extreme height boxcars. Period photos show standard wood sheathed boxcars at the loading platforms, attached is a photo from 1914.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Soderblom
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heinz plant locations

 

I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.

David Soderblom

Baltimore MD USA

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Heinz plant locations

mel perry
 

hunt's had a huge cannery in hayward,
most of it long gone, except the portion
that belongs to costco's business center
mel perry

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:56 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Douglas Harding
 

Bob if you look close you can see a cable or hook wrapped around the front bumper on first two jeeps. I suspect the cable was the tie-down, along with the block of wood under the bumper.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

 

Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg

The location probably is Barstow, CA.

I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps.

Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

mel perry
 

while on the suject of heinz, there used
to be a site dedicated to the heinz
freightcars (long since disappreared),
question i have is, after the 34' boxcars,
were there 36' cars, the reason for the
question is that the 36' cars have been
referenced by kit makers & decal
producers, but i have not found any
documentation to support this contention, if anyone can provide a
source, it would be greatly appreciated,
fyi the various decal/dry transfer
ptoducers, appear to use the red/green
for the 34's and the red yellow for both
the 34's & 36's 
thanks
mel perry


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’m not being picky, Fenton!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 3:02 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

BTW, USS Gary was a big producer.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 2:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Heinz plant locations

David Soderblom
 

I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA







Re: Aluminum body reefers

Tony Thompson
 

I'm thinking PFE paid the railroads by the mile to handle their cars, not by the ton, so the only benefit of lighter aluminum cars was to the shipper.  He could load tonnage on the aluminum car. 

       Actually, the railroads paid PFE by the mile for use of the cars (and also paid them for icing). The shipper paid according the tariff to the delivering railroad, which then distributed shares to the railroads that handled the car en route (yep, armies of clerks in that day), and the railroads in turn paid PFE. 
        But you are right that PFE itself did not really care about car weight. In fact, most produce in its shipping containers is really not very dense. PFE continued to operate considerable number of 30-ton reefers through the 1960s, and even their modern steel ice cars were 40-ton cars. The impression I got from Earl Hopkins, the retired PFE CMO I interviewed, is that PFE did want to keep up with modern freight car design. Aluminum just didn't turn out to be part of that in the era of the PFE aluminum cars.

This sort of mirrors the slow adoption of roller bearing trucks on freight cars.  Railroads liked to equip cars with roller bearings that stayed on home rails thus allowing any benefit from the additional investment to come back to the investor.  No sense investing in making your cars easier for other railroads to pull them.

      I would agree with this.

Tony Thompson




Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg

The location probably is Barstow, CA.

I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps.

Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Document: Rules For Loading Materials

Bob Chaparro
 

Document: Rules For Loading Materials

A 1917 PRR document archived by the PRR Railfan website:

http://prr.railfan.net/documents/LoadingRules-1917.pdf

This link may load very slowly.

Another resource for those of you modeling earlier times. The document has over 100 pages and contains charts and illustrations.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch

17741 - 17760 of 193480