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Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Looks to be a standard AAR 53’ 6” flatcar, which had a extreme deck width of 10’ 6”. Note how the deck boards overhang the stake pockets, with cut outs for the pockets. The CGW had two lots of these flats, totaling 200 cars. Chicago Great Western 3800-3899 100 1940 Pullman 3900-3999 100 1944 Pullman
It looks like the car number is 3930. If it is that would put the photo date as 1944, when the car was brand new. The deck boards look fairly untouched.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Brusgard
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:18 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".
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Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Andy Brusgard <ajb1102@...>
Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".
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Re: Heinz plant locations
Matthew Hurst
Heinz has a plant in Winchester, VA served by the Baltimore and Ohio. Vinegar and pickle cars were seen in town.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Also National Fruit, served by the Pennsylvania Railroad, has a small collection of vinegar cars and would traverse the PRR. Matthew Hurst PRRT&HS #6799 PRRT&HS modeling committee
On Jul 16, 2020, at 4:05 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:
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pickle cars in California (was Re: Heinz plant locations)
It happened. Not a lot. But it happened. Photo from Roseville CA in 1940.
On 7/16/2020 4:47 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
And, as for seeing Heinz cars: --
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Looks spot on to me !
On 7/16/2020 3:02 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
--
Tim O'Connor Sterling, Massachusetts
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Re: Heinz plant locations
Dave Parker
And, as for seeing Heinz cars:
In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers). I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low. -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA
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Re: Heinz plant locations
David, Heinz was much more than pickles. They have a plant in Muscatine IA, here is a story from the local paper.
For many years, Iowa tomato growers had a buyer for their crop in Muscatine.
Kraft Heinz’s second production facility — and the company’s first outside Pittsburgh — was constructed in Muscatine in 1893. It originally processed sauerkraut, horseradish and pickles.
The plant added ketchup and other tomato products in 1898. Muscatine was then in the heart of a tomato-growing region that included western Illinois. For many decades, the plant was taking in tons of tomatoes during the months of August and September and turning out millions of bottles of ketchup.
That changed in 1991 when Kraft Heinz switched to using tomato paste for production of ketchup and other tomato products, according to Michael Mullen, senior vice president of corporate and government affairs at Kraft Heinz.
Mullen said the Muscatine plant remains a strategic facility, producing ketchup, mustard, barbecue sauces, honey, hot sauce, cocktail sauce and sweet-and-sour sauces.
It is quite likely those California plants were processing California tomatoes. Or turning cabbage into sauerkraut. Or any of the other Heinz products. As to “Heinz” cars. Attached is a photo I took of the Muscatine plant loading tracks 8 years ago. Don’t see a single car labeled Heinz. All are large extreme height boxcars. Period photos show standard wood sheathed boxcars at the loading platforms, attached is a photo from 1914.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Soderblom
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:42 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heinz plant locations
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos. Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere. Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
.JPG)
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Re: Heinz plant locations
mel perry
hunt's had a huge cannery in hayward, most of it long gone, except the portion that belongs to costco's business center mel perry
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
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Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Bob if you look close you can see a cable or hook wrapped around the front bumper on first two jeeps. I suspect the cable was the tie-down, along with the block of wood under the bumper.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:10 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg The location probably is Barstow, CA. I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps. Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: Heinz plant locations
Dave Parker
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos. Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere. Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles. Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report. Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup). -- Dave Parker Swall Meadows, CA
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Re: Heinz plant locations
mel perry
while on the suject of heinz, there used to be a site dedicated to the heinz freightcars (long since disappreared), question i have is, after the 34' boxcars, were there 36' cars, the reason for the question is that the 36' cars have been referenced by kit makers & decal producers, but i have not found any documentation to support this contention, if anyone can provide a source, it would be greatly appreciated, fyi the various decal/dry transfer ptoducers, appear to use the red/green for the 34's and the red yellow for both the 34's & 36's thanks mel perry
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Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Schuyler Larrabee
I’m not being picky, Fenton!
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 3:02 PM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Schuyler, Bill, how about this. It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
-- Fenton Wells Pinehurst NC 28374
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
BTW, USS Gary was a big producer.
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 2:52 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader
Ray;
Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
This is very interesting. My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days). I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout. I can see how to
model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?
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Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Schuyler, Bill, how about this. It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:
--
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Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader
Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Ray;
Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.
Elden Gatwood
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader
This is very interesting. My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days). I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout. I can see how to
model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?
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Re: Heinz plant locations
David Soderblom
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos. Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.
Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
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Re: Aluminum body reefers
Tony Thompson
But you are right that PFE itself did not really care about car weight. In fact, most produce in its shipping containers is really not very dense. PFE continued to operate considerable number of 30-ton reefers through the 1960s, and even their modern steel ice cars were 40-ton cars. The impression I got from Earl Hopkins, the retired PFE CMO I interviewed, is that PFE did want to keep up with modern freight car design. Aluminum just didn't turn out to be part of that in the era of the PFE aluminum cars. This sort of mirrors the slow adoption of roller bearing trucks on freight cars. Railroads liked to equip cars with roller bearings that stayed on home rails thus allowing any benefit from the additional investment to come back to the investor. No sense investing in making your cars easier for other railroads to pull them. I would agree with this. Tony Thompson
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Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg The location probably is Barstow, CA. I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps. Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Document: Rules For Loading Materials
Document: Rules For Loading Materials A 1917 PRR document archived by the PRR Railfan website: http://prr.railfan.net/documents/LoadingRules-1917.pdf This link may load very slowly. Another resource for those of you modeling earlier times. The document has over 100 pages and contains charts and illustrations. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Schuyler Larrabee
Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars
Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.
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