Date   

Re: [PRR] [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

Eric Hansmann
 

That’s the image that inspired the paint, lettering, and weathering on my X26. Here’s the blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2016/10/14/masking-tape-as-a-weathering-tool/

 

I’ve seen images featuring a couple other Lines cars that had a hasty reletter job.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: PRR@PRR.groups.io <PRR@PRR.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 1:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; PRR@PRR.groups.io
Subject: Re: [PRR] [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

 

X26 540005 to the right has had "LINES" painted out.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 1:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

 

Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

A 1926 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.261933.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: B&M covered hopper 5599 / KCEX #119

akerboomk
 

It was KEPX 119 (not KCEX)
I can't find who owned those reporting marks.
--
Ken Akerboom


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

Brent Greer
 

I know that most of this detail would be too small to see with normal vision in HO scale (but that certainly doesn't stop Bill from doing the incredible detailing that he does), so it makes me wonder, has anyone ever made route card decals in HO scale?   

Brent (at the end of a long Friday and yes, I have started my vacation with an early libation - so please forgive if this is a ridiculous thought - it wasn't my first and won't be the last...)  🙂

Brent


Dr. J. Brent Greer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 2:57 PM
To: Espee@groups.io <Espee@groups.io>; RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993
 
Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993
Two 1918 photos from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:
Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.
Looks like there are at least two route cards on this car.

     I count six cards or remnants of cards. Clerks would tell you they never bothered to remove old cards, but just added the new one that was needed.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: WHD Boxcar 560

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Bob and List Members,
 
Any chance this is an insulated boxcar? Possible equipped with a heater? I ask because the one door we can just barely see looks like it has two leaves and is hinged like a reefer door.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 2:29 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: WHD Boxcar 560

Photo: WHD Boxcar 560

A 1909 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.091278.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Very good view of the "A" end.

Possibly Western Heater Despatch boxcar. J. Kibben Ingalls was head of the North Western Refrigerator Line Company and organized his own private car company, the Western Heater Despatch, in 1906.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:

Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993
Two 1918 photos from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:
Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.
Looks like there are at least two route cards on this car.

     I count six cards or remnants of cards. Clerks would tell you they never bothered to remove old cards, but just added the new one that was needed.

Tony Thompson




Re: pickle cars in California (was Re: Heinz plant locations)

Gene Deimling
 

Pickles and vinegar have little in common other than they shipped in wood vats or tanks.   I have not found any information on salting stations within Cali.  Pickles were packed in the Seattle area by Nalleys.  

Vinegar production facilities did exist in California.  There was a large plant in the East Bay for a number of years. Some of the wine produced in California ended up as vinegar.   

Gene Deimling 


Photo: American Steel & Wire Company Gondola 1204

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: American Steel & Wire Company Gondola 1204

A circa 1915-1917 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A200102.108.DR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: WF&NW Boxcar 4108

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: WF&NW Boxcar 4108

A 1913 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133770.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

This possibly is a Wichita Falls & Northwestern Railway boxcar. Information on that company: https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/eqw10

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Flat Cars With Stationary Steam Engine Load

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Flat Cars With Stationary Steam Engine Load

A 1907 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.071580.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

Bruce Smith
 

X26 540005 to the right has had "LINES" painted out.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 1:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Gondola 280422
 

Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

A 1926 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.261933.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Hopper 192255

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Hopper 192255

A 1916 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.164385.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Good 3/4 view of "B" end.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

Two 1918 photos from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.2557.RR/viewer

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.2558.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photos to enlarge them.

Looks like there are at least two route cards on this car.

Second photo is a shot of a messy interior.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Gondola 280422

A 1926 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.261933.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: WHD Boxcar 560

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: WHD Boxcar 560

A 1909 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.091278.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Very good view of the "A" end.

Possibly Western Heater Despatch boxcar. J. Kibben Ingalls was head of the North Western Refrigerator Line Company and organized his own private car company, the Western Heater Despatch, in 1906.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Illinois Central Concrete Coal Hopper Car 230000

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Illinois Central Concrete Coal Hopper Car 230000

A 1919 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3Arg90.14.61/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Description: "This coal car was an experiment initiated by the Illinois Central Railroad in response to a national need to divert steel to the war effort during World War I. Photo taken in the yards of the Westmoreland Coal Company at Export, Pa."

Note stencil "Not To Leave Lines".

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Canadian Pacific Railroad Boxcar 131944

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Canadian Pacific Railroad Boxcar 131944

A 1913 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133731.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Very good view of the "B" end.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: GATX 4507

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GATX 4507

A 1916 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.16899.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Very good view of the "B" end. Notice the "MCB Construction" stencil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dave Parker
 

Re:  Absence of receiving stations in CA

We can only speculate, but the factory in Tracy was completed in 1946, and accounted for 15% of Heinz's US production (see p. 7).  Tracy is in the (northern) heart of the San Joaquin Valley, one of  the proverbial "breadbaskets of the world", and the one with most crop diversity.  Even by 1940,  much of the SJV's road network was paved, including all of Highway 99 which connected Bakersfield and Sacramento.

My guess would be that the combination of a modern plant that did not specialize in cucumber products, and a more modern infrastructure, obviated the need for receiving stations.  Much of what was processed at Tracy could have come from fields within a 50 or 100 mile radius.

Much of the cucumber infrastructure in MI also appears in the 1910 map, suggesting a lot of legacy facilities, although there seems to have been some consolidation of factories.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: coil gondola shipping early problems

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Mont and friends,

That must have been some pretty thin stock to have fitted so many coils in those old gondolas.

I'm most familiar with much heavier coils that were shipped from USS Geneva in Utah to USS Columbia/Pittsburg (no "h") in California via the D&RGW, WP and Sacramento Northern. These coils were shipped horizontally for years uncovered in gondolas beginning in 1944 on disposable wooden cradles at first in any cars that were available. By the mid-1950s the coils moved in dedicated cars with permanent racks. Rust was apparently not a problem, as they would have moved fairly quickly to their destination. At Pittsburg the coils were cold rolled into thinner stock for automobile or appliance stamping, and even thinner for can stock (which was tinned by USS there at Pittsburg). How and where they were shipped for further processing is unknown to me, but it was likely in boxcars.

See my articles at https://www.wplives.org/sn/steel.html and https://www.wplives.org/sn/gon.html for more on this operation.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 11:31 AM Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:

Elden,

 

I would suspect in that era the original coils were shipped on end in closed (boxcars) cars with lots of blocking and bracing.    Enclosed cars helps prevent rust, dirt, etc. for the same reasons most coil cars of today are covered.

 

I would say several of those boxcars got dumped somewhere thus damaging all of the coils inside.  Since they had become scrap due to the alleged accident the wrecker wasn’t too particular as to how they were placed in the gons.

 

Please keep in mind this is a theory.  Too bad we cannot see the claim file.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 11:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Mont;

 

For sure, scrap now!

 

This appears to be the result of a wreck, or very hard coupling, which P&WV undoubtedly had to document for claims.

 

But what I find unusual is the way they were loaded, like with no understanding on how they’d behave.  Sheesh.

 

I am assembling a presentation on RR coil loading experiences, and how the RRs evolved their practices over time, resulting in dedicated coil cars, so I am looking to these early instances for the “why”.

 

Coils misbehaving was a problem that increased with increasing size, weight, and finish quality requirements.

 

This tipping over behavior was something I am astonished to see wasn’t anticipated.

 

I’d love to see someone model that load!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Could be ends of larger coils used to stamp out car fenders and home appliances.  Coils might have been involved in a wreck.  Scrap now.

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 10:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood

Attachments:

  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Avella_001_Web.jpg
  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Avella_002_Web.jpg
  • early coil Metal_Coils_At_Rook_004_Web.jpg


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mont and Andy;

 

Industry guys generally summarize it this way:  Hot coil, because it does not require weather protection (since it undergoes additional treatment elsewhere, or not at all) goes eyes up in open gons, on dunnage, generally over the trucks in threes at either end, but this varies.  OK, we got that, but cold-rolled has a great story.

 

Originally, small and medium cold-rolled went like this: (PRR earliest…)

 

….without blocking (!), or with pieces of 2x4 shoved under the ends, and so, destroyed the car they were put in (the correspondence that goes with this is great reading)

 

And yes, we all know cold-rolled required weather protection, but how?  Box cars (most were still 40-ton cars) were not constructed for loads that heavy, or with such ability to destroy everything around them.  They were generally loaded with a forklift, which forklift + coil = seriously buckled car.

 

PRR did a lot of experiments, but industry kept telling them, “nope, try again”.

 

So, the story I am developing is the PRR’s (and others, incl NKP, B&O, Erie, NYC, P&LE, B&LE, SP, and others)) development of their first dedicated “coil cars”.  I have great correspondence between RRs and industries, as they agonized about how to make it work!

 

Andy;  I totally agree with you; “hot bands”.  And here, also, PRR X53 dedicated as a dedicated tinplate car, for palletized coils banded eyes up:

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

>>>>>  I would suspect in that era the original coils were shipped on end in closed (boxcars) cars with lots of blocking and bracing.    Enclosed cars helps prevent rust, dirt, etc. for the same reasons most coil cars of                   today are covered.

 

                 Mont

Tin plate coils are still shipped that way today (coils laid on end-eye to the sky, in boxcars).  The coils in these photos look like "hot bands", coils that have not been finished yet.  Knowing they will be pickled, cut, and possibly sized...they did not need to be protected from the elements.
Andy L.
Wisconsin

 

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