Date   

Re: B&O Sentinel 40' box at Taylor Yard, LA CA 1958

Kenneth Montero
 

Tim,

Here are some current sources of such decals:

Microscale: Item # 48-401 (O scale)

Protocraft Item #B&O M55s (O scale)

Tichy Item # 10074-O (O scale), #10074 -HO (HO scale), #10074-N (N scale)

Ken Montero


On 07/18/2020 10:03 AM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



M-55C built by General American in 1945. Sunshine produced an M-55 kit but is that the same as this car?

Does anyone make good decals for this Sentinel paint scheme?


On 7/18/2020 12:41 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:
<9d259293-303b-ceab-e885-a34e0cbf691f@...>" data-mce-src="cid:9d259293-303b-ceab-e885-a34e0cbf691f@..." data-mce-style="max-width: 800px; width: 100%;">
Even with its very low mounted bottom door track the Yougstown door still is a 5/6/5-Short. Along with the ends, the color scheme makes for an interesting, well-travelled Eastern box car.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: American Steel & Wire Company Gondola 1204

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Bob;

 

Without any evidence, I think that is one of the AS&W crop cars.  I have photos of similar cars on other area RRs.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 2:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: American Steel & Wire Company Gondola 1204

 

Photo: American Steel & Wire Company Gondola 1204

A circa 1915-1917 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

Blockedhttps://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A200102.108.DR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Nice car, Eric!

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 3:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

I wonder if these coils are for can stock.

 

BTW, the Reading gondola has an 8-1937 journal repack stencil. It’s also wearing original lettering applied shortly after the corporate name change from P&R to Reading. This photo inspired the lettering on my F&C Reading gondola.

Blockedhttps://i0.wp.com/designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/201705_reading_gm1.jpg

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Steve;

 

Thanks for the input.  I hope I can figure out their destination someday, which was likely on the P&WV, since I have never seen loads like that originating in the vicinity.

 

Continental Can might be an option.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve Salotti
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 5:48 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

My guess would be (based on Reading Gons) they could be coils produced by Carpenter Steel, located on the Reading main just West of Reading, PA.  Drive by there on a somewhat regular basis.

Steve Salotti


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

David;

I think so, too.

Anything you care to add on P&WV is of great interest. I am slowly working my way thru the P&WV freight car fleet for a presentation requested by folks that are fans, but don't know much.

I find their fleet fascinating.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 6:41 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

And on another tangent, the third pic seems to show P&WV's 1920s project to rebuild their 1905CD hoppers.

David Thompson


Re: B&O Sentinel 40' box at Taylor Yard, LA CA 1958

Tim O'Connor
 


M-55C built by General American in 1945. Sunshine produced an M-55 kit but is that the same as this car?

Does anyone make good decals for this Sentinel paint scheme?


On 7/18/2020 12:41 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:

Even with its very low mounted bottom door track the Yougstown door still is a 5/6/5-Short. Along with the ends, the color scheme makes for an interesting, well-travelled Eastern box car.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993 / route cards

Eric Hansmann
 

I’ve applied route cards, placards, and remnants to many freight cars in my fleet. Here’s a blog post with details and images. 

Tony Thompson’s blogposts about these details inspire the work. I would have hardly given them much notice on prototype images had I not read Tony’s posts. 

I model 1926 when many freight cars had wood sheathing, so these details become more important to reflect the prototype. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: And we're shipping kits

Pierre Oliver
 

Guy,
The decal set for the 15' door car is the "as built" without specific Evans statements

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On 7/17/20 10:33 p.m., Guy Wilber via groups.io wrote:
Pierre Oliver,

You’ve done an excellent job on these various kits. Are you offering the appropriate decals for the 65100-65199 series cars which were equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders?

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: B&O Sentinel 40' box at Taylor Yard, LA CA 1958

Eric Hansmann
 

IIRC, there about a dozen of these B&O M-55 cars wearing this paint scheme. Many others were in the more typical red with B&O lettering. More info starts on page 29 of this B&O Modeler issue. 

On Jul 17, 2020, at 11:41 PM, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

<BO466311.jpg>
Even with its very low mounted bottom door track the Yougstown door still is a 5/6/5-Short. Along with the ends, the color scheme makes for an interesting, well-travelled Eastern box car.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
<BO466311.jpg>


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993 / route cards

Bill Welch
 

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 09:28 PM, Todd Sullivan wrote:

Well, Bill, I couldn't resist replying to that one. Canopy cement (or Hob-e-Tak which I use) is hte answer.  Apply a very small dot on the car side, apply the decal mostly dry, do not use setting solution, then remove the decal when desired!

Todd Sullivan

--------------------------------------

Cannot wait to see photos Todd.

Bill Welch


Re: coil gondola shipping early problems

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Andy,

While loading over the trucks only was apparently true of 52' and 65' (yes, the latter did carry coil sometimes) gondolas in WP and D&RGW coil service, it didn't apply to the 29' series 6401-6499. The car in the attached photo is loaded down its full length, and I have a photo of another car also loaded beyond the trucks. I suspect that how many coils went into one of the gondolas depended on the size and weight of the coils.

After their 1955-1956 rebuilding, the 29' cars had two parallel ladder-like arrangements which ran the length of the car body. AFAIK, there were no other restrainers, the weight of the coils being enough to keep the load from shifting (at least under normal handling). The surviving car at the Portola museum still has its racks.

These short gondolas were not unique to the WP. Also attached are two that were photographed from Amtrak's California Zephyr at Armco Steel and Mansbach Metals, both around Ashland, Kentucky IIRC. I would be interested to know who owned these cars originally (likely from our period of interest). And no, these aren't WP survivors--the number of ribs is wrong. The Mansbach car appears to have Pullman ends. I also have an even poorer photo of another short Armco car with a slightly downward pointed side sill in the center. Anybody have ideas?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 4:11 PM Andy Jackson <lajrmdlr@...> wrote:
Western Pacific had 29' gondolas made specifically to haul coil steel. The coils were loaded over the trucks only. They were loaded on their sides in cradles.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Douglas Harding
 

Peter, yes SLSX 71548 is a 40’ double deck car with a door on each level. The 71000-71199 were all double deck stockcars, and unless a photo shows otherwise, all had four doors.

 

As far as I know Swift never used Mather stockcars. I believe Swift used General American cars. And I am not aware of a General American stock car model in HO. I could use several if they did exist.

 

Attached is a photo of NISX 3068, a Mather stockcar painted and lettered for the NYC. This is a 50’ car, with four doors per side. There is not stockcar number 3132 under North American in my 4-1960 ORER. I mis-spoke about possibly seeing the NISX reporting marks in your specified time. North American did not begin using NISX until April of 1961. Your 3132 is no doubt a NYC car, but sometime after 1961. NTX and NITX are not reporting marks assigned to North American. So don’t know what you are seeing on the letterboard in the photo. I think you are seeing NISX as seen in the attached photo.

 

The Mather 50 stockcar could be kitbashed by using two Proto 2000 double deck stockcars. Stan Radarowicz did this kitbash.

 

Mather cars were often painted/lettered for the railroad leasing the cars. Mather and North American did lease cars under their own reporting marks. Cars coming off lease were repaired and repainted, often getting new numbers assigned. So unless records exist, tracing a car’s lease heritage is almost impossible. And the ORER listings do not generally indicated who leased the car.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 7:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

Hi Doug,

 

Thanks very much. Attached my photo of SLSX 71548, which I am fairly certain is double deck with only two doors.  Is it possible the 71000-series contained both 2- and 4-door versions? Is it possible to identify if this is a Mather stock car?

 

The photo I have of NISX 3132 is undated, but definitely a 40-foot car and painted green.  Unlike the reporting marks, the letterboard on the car side seems to read “NTX” or ”NITX” with some small lettering underneath. From previous STMFC messages, it would appear green cars were leased to NYC.

 

I don’t know much about stock cars, and maybe the answer to this is in the archives; While Mathers (later North American) leased the cars, I believe many were painted in the lessee scheme? So, if there are no NISX reporting marks in say, a 1960 ORER (which would list many cars rostered in 1959) how would I go about learning the predecessor lessee of NISX cars? What I am trying to resolve: if NISX 3132 is not appropriate for 1959, who was it leased to and what were the reporting marks and number (or number series) before it was assigned as NISX 3132?

 

Stay healthy,

Peter

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

Peter I have a few more photos of SLSX cars, most from the 71000 series. Also the 3600 you have and a couple from the 72000 series. All have the letterboard, so I would suspect the board is missing in your photo. 3600 is a single deck car, 71000 cars are double deck, with four doors, 72000 are single deck cars.

From notes: 71038 was built 12-31 and 72221 is marked as a GATC car. Swift sold their reefer and tankcar fleets to General American in 1930/31. I assume the stockcars were included in this sale.

 

The Lifelike Proto 2000 (now Walthers) Mather car was offered as a double deck with four doors. To my knowledge it is the only HO doubledeck stockcar with four doors. The doors could be used in a kitbash on another car. The Red caboose 36’ SP car comes to mind and the Intermountain 40’ ATSF car.

 

NISX is North American Car Corp. NA purchased Mather in the late 50s. You could see Mather stockcars relettered for NISX in your era. Also beginning in the very late 50s some Mather cars were rebuilt/stretched into 50’ cars. CBQ, B&O, NYC, and perhaps others ran these cars, both single and double deck. The late Stan Radarowicz offered a kit for kitbashing these 50’ cars.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


B&O Sentinel 40' box at Taylor Yard, LA CA 1958

Andy Carlson
 

Inline image
Even with its very low mounted bottom door track the Yougstown door still is a 5/6/5-Short. Along with the ends, the color scheme makes for an interesting, well-travelled Eastern box car.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 12:51 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
There seem to be freight cars sitting on the lower spur to the right near a parking lot.
I discovered that plant two years ago when I spent a week in Holland, MI with the grand kids, and the track was still in at that time, and looked active. That line runs between the street and a big public park, so I would assume the track will disappear quickly if it's abandoned.

Interesting detail of the plant, at the main gate on 16th street, is a wooden vat turned on it's side to make a shelter for the turnstiles the employees walk through to enter the plant.

Dennis Storzek


Re: coil gondola shipping early problems

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Indeed.  Beautiful model.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 3:54 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Good looking car Eric

Fenton

 

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020 at 3:47 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

I wonder if these coils are for can stock.

 

BTW, the Reading gondola has an 8-1937 journal repack stencil. It’s also wearing original lettering applied shortly after the corporate name change from P&R to Reading. This photo inspired the lettering on my F&C Reading gondola.

https://i0.wp.com/designbuildop.hansmanns.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/201705_reading_gm1.jpg

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 9:35 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] coil gondola shipping early problems

 

Group;

 

Any insights into what uses these coils would have been for?

 

Any translation of the writing?

 

Nice RDG gon, BTW!

 

Elden Gatwood


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: And we're shipping kits

Guy Wilber
 

Pierre Oliver,

You’ve done an excellent job on these various kits. Are you offering the appropriate decals for the 65100-65199 series cars which were equipped with Evans Auto~Loaders?

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993 / route cards

Todd Sullivan
 

Bill Welch said,
"I think little bit of decals would do the trick ... However not sure how to make them removable."

Well, Bill, I couldn't resist replying to that one. Canopy cement (or Hob-e-Tak which I use) is hte answer.  Apply a very small dot on the car side, apply the decal mostly dry, do not use setting solution, then remove the decal when desired!

Todd Sullivan


Re: [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

Douglas Harding
 

I note two of those route cards are for the M&StL and the MILW, indicating this car was traveling in the upper Midwest.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:09 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] [Espee] Photos: S.P. Boxcar 84993

 

Brent Greer wrote:



I know that most of this detail would be too small to see with normal vision in HO scale (but that certainly doesn't stop Bill from doing the incredible detailing that he does), so it makes me wonder, has anyone ever made route card decals in HO scale?   

 

     Once could do so, within limits. Most of them have writing too small to reasonably see, but some have a large number or initial on it, and that could be done with decals. After all, we have repack decals with truly small lettering.

      My personal approach has always been to use plain rectangles of paper, white or manila or other color. I have written a number of blog posts on the topic; if you're interested, there is a link below to a late one in the series, containing links to earlier ones.

 

 

The idea here, in my mind, matches Richard Hendrickson's admonition, that in some places on a model there should be SOMETHING there. A tiny white rectangle, where a route card ought to be, satisfies that for me.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Bruce Smith
 

In the inimitable words of Sherman Potter, that's "Horse Hockey". I can cite hundreds of pieces of evidence that military loads in the use were tied down. That occurs in multiple ways, with multiple means and is demonstrated in the US Army's own technical manuals. I will confine my further remarks to WWII, where I have the most expertise.

When units moved with their own equipment, which was generally confined to the pre-war and immediate period of 18 months after the start of the war, equipment was blocked with solid pieces of wood and tied down with twisted wire at multiple points, typically fore and aft, on both sides. Blocks were also positioned to prevent front and back, side to side, and even vertical movement with some vehicles

As the depot system became established, mid 1943, troops rarely traveled with their equipment, with the exception of specialized units such as some engineering units being moved between domestic construction assignments. Blocking started to consist of built up blocks as the stock of solid timber were requisitioned for other, more important war-time uses. Tie downs often consisted of threaded rod, with turn-buckles for tensioning and retaining plates with nuts at the bottom of flat car stake pockets. In some cases, where cars were captured for service, I have seen steel plates with eyes on top bolted to flat car decks as the tie down location. I have no evidence that it was eliminated and certainly none that it was done so to facilitate emergency removal. 

As a final note, chains and chain binders, were very uncommon tie downs in WWII, unlike today. I theorize that might be due to the free roaming nature of flat cars and the difficulty in getting that gear back to the factory or depot that shipped the vehicle.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2020 4:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car
 
I received this comment:
"Generally military vehicles were not tied down, to facilitate emergency removal from the rail cars."
Can anyone verify or dispute this?
Thanks.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


coil gondola shipping early problems

David
 

And on another tangent, the third pic seems to show P&WV's 1920s project to rebuild their 1905CD hoppers.

David Thompson

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