Date   

Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I have NEVER understood what was so bloody wonderful about Accupaint and now Tru-Color.  It never worked for me.  I paint a lot of brass, and when I painted a couple of things with the Accupaint primer for brass, it was so thick that I thought I was going to lose the louvers on a brass model diesel.  It DID thin out some after a couple of days but OTOH, I did obscure some detail, or make grab irons visibly larger in diameter.  Who wants that?

 

I will say that George Bishops decals simply NAILED the paint schemes he did them for.  I have a lot of those still, and found that to apply them over Scalecoat I had to apply a clearcoat.  There’s nothing quite as “exciting” as realizing that as you’re adjusting the exact location of a large decal, you are also adjusting the location of a substantial sheet of paint!  The clearcoat solves that issue.

 

Accupaint is actually a variety of ink.  I presume that Tru-Color is as well.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

Like many I’m experimenting with Tru-Color paints. I’ve had some rude experiences, and also gotten some nice results. FWIW, here are my experiences so far …

 

1) The volatiles escape from the Tru-Color bottles. I do NOT think this is due to poor caps or seals, but actual escape through the walls of the bottles. Same problem with the old Accupaint. BAD!

 

2) Fortunately the paint can be reconstituted by just adding their thinner (NOT cheap). Some suggest that all the new bottles SHOULD be full, and that low paint levels indicate loss of thinner. This may well be true … see “1” above. They need different bottles!!

 

3) However, even a full bottle is nowhere near being sprayable with conventional equipment. I use Paashe “H” and “VL” brushes, usually with the #3 needle. To spray Tru-Color I need to thin the paint at least 1:1 or sometimes 2:1 with thinner. Even then it tends to dry in the airbrush tip and gum up the spray at best or even clog the gun.

 

4) It does not stick hardly at all to metal, and poorly to most resin (seems “OK” on styrene). Use of a primer is necessary. NOT Tru-color primer! … it seems to be  just their own paint in light gray color. It does NOT stick either. Floquil primer works well for this, *IF* you still have any. I have heard, and am about to start trying, Tamiya primers (gray or red, acrylic) in spray cans. These get VERY good reviews. Generally I’m cautious about applying different paints over one another, but this combination seems to work for other experienced modelers. I’ll find out.

 

5) I once painted a nice HO passenger car in classic pullman-green … Floquil primer followed by Tru-color paint. I ovesprayed it with Testor’s Glosscoat, let it dry, and applied decals. I let it dry well (a few days). It looked good. Then had to do just little masking and applied the tape, sprayed the paint, and then attempted to remove the tape. DISASTER! The Glosscoat peeled off like a huge sheet of cellophane, naturally taking most of the decals with it. The Glosscoat had NOT adhered to the Tru-color at all. I have NEVER had this happen previously with Glosscoat applied over ANY other paints. I fear (but have not experienced) similar issues with Dullcoat. I wonder, and am experimenting, with Dullcoat and other overcoats.

 

6) I have tried the Tru-color “flat” paints. They are less glossy than regular Tru-color, but hardly “flat” at all. This is not particularly serious as normally a dull overcoat solves this problem, EXCEPT see “5" above.

 

7) I clean-up equipment with cheap commercial lacquer thinner, but thin paint ONLY with the manufacturer’s recommended thinner.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

 

 

 



On Jul 31, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

 

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

 

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

 

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

 

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

 

Regards,

Bruce

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

claus:

ever give a thought of discussing

this problem with the manufacture?

as an aside, why buy a half bottle of

paint, better yet why didn't the lhs

spot this?

just asking?

;-)

mel perry

 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Bruce and List Members.

 

I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.

 

I was quite unhappy with what I got.

 

Here is what I found...

 

(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.

 

(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!

 

(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces

 

I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!

 

As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized

 

So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C

 

If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!

 

Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

Don, Folks,

 

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

 

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.

Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.

Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io<riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


PRR 470031 Well Car

Richard Wilkens
 

Continuing the well car / depressed center car threads. These are various photos from the Seattle City Light Skagit Power Project.

PRR 470031 with runner for Seattle City Light Ross Powerhouse, car on GN at Rockport, WA in 1950's.

Rich Wilkens


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Like many I’m experimenting with Tru-Color paints. I’ve had some rude experiences, and also gotten some nice results. FWIW, here are my experiences so far …

1) The volatiles escape from the Tru-Color bottles. I do NOT think this is due to poor caps or seals, but actual escape through the walls of the bottles. Same problem with the old Accupaint. BAD!

2) Fortunately the paint can be reconstituted by just adding their thinner (NOT cheap). Some suggest that all the new bottles SHOULD be full, and that low paint levels indicate loss of thinner. This may well be true … see “1” above. They need different bottles!!

3) However, even a full bottle is nowhere near being sprayable with conventional equipment. I use Paashe “H” and “VL” brushes, usually with the #3 needle. To spray Tru-Color I need to thin the paint at least 1:1 or sometimes 2:1 with thinner. Even then it tends to dry in the airbrush tip and gum up the spray at best or even clog the gun.

4) It does not stick hardly at all to metal, and poorly to most resin (seems “OK” on styrene). Use of a primer is necessary. NOT Tru-color primer! … it seems to be  just their own paint in light gray color. It does NOT stick either. Floquil primer works well for this, *IF* you still have any. I have heard, and am about to start trying, Tamiya primers (gray or red, acrylic) in spray cans. These get VERY good reviews. Generally I’m cautious about applying different paints over one another, but this combination seems to work for other experienced modelers. I’ll find out.

5) I once painted a nice HO passenger car in classic pullman-green … Floquil primer followed by Tru-color paint. I ovesprayed it with Testor’s Glosscoat, let it dry, and applied decals. I let it dry well (a few days). It looked good. Then had to do just little masking and applied the tape, sprayed the paint, and then attempted to remove the tape. DISASTER! The Glosscoat peeled off like a huge sheet of cellophane, naturally taking most of the decals with it. The Glosscoat had NOT adhered to the Tru-color at all. I have NEVER had this happen previously with Glosscoat applied over ANY other paints. I fear (but have not experienced) similar issues with Dullcoat. I wonder, and am experimenting, with Dullcoat and other overcoats.

6) I have tried the Tru-color “flat” paints. They are less glossy than regular Tru-color, but hardly “flat” at all. This is not particularly serious as normally a dull overcoat solves this problem, EXCEPT see “5" above.

7) I clean-up equipment with cheap commercial lacquer thinner, but thin paint ONLY with the manufacturer’s recommended thinner.

Dan Mitchell
==========




On Jul 31, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

Regards,
Bruce



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 
claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io<riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors
than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is
the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to
give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after
that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since
George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the
same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before
photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the
NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding
before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color
you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers
each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble
Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the
freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very
few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been
satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.
Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine



Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bruce, Andy, and List Members,
 
Thanks Bruce for the additional info and pointers, and thanks Andy for the very useful info.
 
I think I found the 'blog' that Bruce refered to in his post, it is actually the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page. I have to say, with respect to web site organization, I would never have thought to look for the FAQ page under the "About Us" tab! Maybe I should lower my letter grade for the web site from a "C" to a "C-"
 
So I will go the LHS and buy a bottle of their recommend thinner, that won't happen for a while since the LHS is a 45 minute drive one way but I can wait. I would have happily bought it when I was there last time had I known, but the fact that I was going to brush it on and the gleeful reassurance on the label that the paint was paint-brush ready gave me no reason to think I should buy thinner - sigh...
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

Regards,
Bruce



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 
claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

mel perry
 

claus:
thanks for the clarafication, i think
venting on the manufacture might
(?), have better results, at least (?)
he might wake up?
;-)
mel perry

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 2:18 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Mel and List Members,
 
Mel wrote: "as an aside, why buy a half bottle of paint, better yet why didn't the lhs spot this?"
 
If the paint were sold in clear glass bottles, there would be some hope of spotting a half-empty bottle. But this is not the case, the paint comes in a plastic jar that is not clear at all, it is a cloudy-white plastic jar that is only mildly transluscent. Furthermore, the factory paper label wraps around the full circumference of the bottle, making it even more difficcult to get an idea of what is inside the bottle. So you can't visually check how much paint is inside until you take the cap off. Other than reading the printed text on the label, you can't even really get an accurate idea of what the color of paint on the inside is, except in the most coarse sense, like you can tell green-ish from red-ish from blue-ish, but any better level of subtlety again requires that you take the cap off.
 
Taking the cap off isn't something you want to do while at the LHS for a wide variety of reasons...
 
So far, this paint has been a very frustrating experience.
 
Claus Schlund
 

 
----- Original Message -----
From: mel perry
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Mel and List Members,
 
Mel wrote: "as an aside, why buy a half bottle of paint, better yet why didn't the lhs spot this?"
 
If the paint were sold in clear glass bottles, there would be some hope of spotting a half-empty bottle. But this is not the case, the paint comes in a plastic jar that is not clear at all, it is a cloudy-white plastic jar that is only mildly transluscent. Furthermore, the factory paper label wraps around the full circumference of the bottle, making it even more difficcult to get an idea of what is inside the bottle. So you can't visually check how much paint is inside until you take the cap off. Other than reading the printed text on the label, you can't even really get an accurate idea of what the color of paint on the inside is, except in the most coarse sense, like you can tell green-ish from red-ish from blue-ish, but any better level of subtlety again requires that you take the cap off.
 
Taking the cap off isn't something you want to do while at the LHS for a wide variety of reasons...
 
So far, this paint has been a very frustrating experience.
 
Claus Schlund
 

 

----- Original Message -----
From: mel perry
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Bruce Smith
 

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

Regards,
Bruce



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 
claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

mel perry
 

claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Photo: Loading Oats Into Boxcars (1926)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Oops, looks like my reply got truncated somehow - that shoud read "The boxcar closest to the camera seems like it might be CP 100016.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Oats Into Boxcars (1926)

Hi Bob,
 
Thanks for the cool image.
 
The boxcar closest to the camera seems like it might be .
 
Claus Schlund
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2020 1:08 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Loading Oats Into Boxcars (1926)

Photo: Loading Oats Into Boxcars (1926)

A 1926 photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM49124

Looks like the man in the wagon is shoveling oats into the conveyor.

The grain door is a bit different from many others I have seen.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956) now B&M well flat

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Don;

 

Here’s that B&M car you need for the occasional shipment of a GE turbine to your nearby hydropower plant (attached).

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

 

    Now I think you’re getting close to the mark Ron. I was wondering if anyone considered the fact that some loads for which a well hole car is needed are shaped in such ways that structural wood or steel bars or beams can be passed through them so they are actually supported but the deck while part of them hangs down through the hole created by the well. Has anyone considered this?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956) now NYC depressed well flat

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Group;

 

Forgive the late date of photo, but I do not have one in NYC days.

 

What does anyone know of this car in its early days?

 

Was it an NYC product?

 

I find the engineering fascinating.  The sandwiched plate sides are really cool.

 

TIA,

 

Elden

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

 

You bet, Don.

 

Manufacturers of tall loads did design things to fit the clearance diagram, but were constantly pushing the RRs to provide them deeper cars.

 

The most extreme of the “suspended load” concept, IMO, was the so-called “Schnabel” cars, which were designed to suspend big turbines between their two halves, the load being bolted to the car’s bearing surfaces.  Thus, doing away with the need for sides or floor.  Wild concept.

 

In your neck of the woods, the B&M serving the big GE plant on-line had a line of really cool well flats, from which the load was suspended on girders with feet atop the end decks.  Very cool.

 

I have an F&C kit built of that B&M car.  I love it.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

 

    Now I think you’re getting close to the mark Ron. I was wondering if anyone considered the fact that some loads for which a well hole car is needed are shaped in such ways that structural wood or steel bars or beams can be passed through them so they are actually supported but the deck while part of them hangs down through the hole created by the well. Has anyone considered this?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Question On Santa Fe flat Car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


I am working on Sunshine  Santa Fe Ft'V flat car.
Virtually all Santa Fe freight cars had the brake reservoir mounted crosswise on the car.  Neither  the Sunshine instructions nor the Santa Fe open car book verify that for this car.  I hope that I can get verification before proceeding.

Thanks for any help.

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Andy Carlson
 

Bruce-

You may be suffering from the volitiles gassing off right past the lid (Tru-Coloe and AccuPaint use plastic bottles with often porely sealing lids. A real problem with AccuPaint over the years. Fortunatley for us, simply adding back the missing volume of thinner brings the paint back to 100% good.

I first tried AccuPaint in the 1990s and no other paint since, with the exception of automotive lacquers. I am not interested in learning any of the Acrylics, as AccuPaint (and now Tru-Color) are my favorites, truly "perfect" paints. You will need to use a primer before painting ant brass or resin. 22 pounds of air pressure and about 6 inches from the surface is a good place to start.You can thin to the point of being skeptical of your wisedom and the paint will still lay out well. Like most lacquers, under thinning will make you a hater.

Use the Tru-color thinner and clean with hardware store lacquer to keep costs down.

-Andy Carlson

On Friday, July 31, 2020, 11:35:38 AM PDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

You bet, Don.

 

Manufacturers of tall loads did design things to fit the clearance diagram, but were constantly pushing the RRs to provide them deeper cars.

 

The most extreme of the “suspended load” concept, IMO, was the so-called “Schnabel” cars, which were designed to suspend big turbines between their two halves, the load being bolted to the car’s bearing surfaces.  Thus, doing away with the need for sides or floor.  Wild concept.

 

In your neck of the woods, the B&M serving the big GE plant on-line had a line of really cool well flats, from which the load was suspended on girders with feet atop the end decks.  Very cool.

 

I have an F&C kit built of that B&M car.  I love it.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2020 7:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

 

    Now I think you’re getting close to the mark Ron. I was wondering if anyone considered the fact that some loads for which a well hole car is needed are shaped in such ways that structural wood or steel bars or beams can be passed through them so they are actually supported but the deck while part of them hangs down through the hole created by the well. Has anyone considered this?

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ron, Schuyler, Don and others interested;

 

I got very interested in these cars from that initial photo submittal, and did some digging.

 

The cars did have a floor, but I have been unable to determine if it was removable in sections or fixed, or what.  The ORERs usually talk about “other”, if it applies.

 

Here is the description:

 

“Dimensions of well…as follows: at deck level – length 20 ft. 6 ½ in., width 6 ft. 2 ½ in.  depth from deck to well floor 2 ft. 3 5/8 in.  Well floor length 18 ft. 0 in. width 6 ft. 2 in.  These cars are equipped with wood loading floors.  Spacing between truck centers:  32 ft. 8 in.  Total wheelbase: 38 ft. 2 in.”

 

The numbers of cars varies over the years, but was 2 or 3 cars out of the series of 60000 to 60033, and in all ways other than the well, look to be the regular old flat cars these guys were converted from.

 

These appear to NOT be as-builts, but a shop conversion, perhaps for that one customer.  They are just too different from a purpose-built well car, which are very different from these cars from an engineering perspective.  Nice job, nevertheless.

 

The fact that they were blocked the way they were is not surprising, given the RRs concerns that folks would load them with the load concentrated on the floors and/or sides, which were the weakest, and next to weakest parts of the car, respectively.  If the load was heavy, it was either suspended on girders or beams, to put most of the load on the end decks, best, above the bolsters, the best place to put the load concentration.

 

I hope that answers some questions.

 

And, BTW, if you ever come across other photos of well or well hole, or most any other depressed flats, PLEASE send them to me on or off-list!

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956) now PRR cars

 

 

    Thanks for the PRR photo Schuyler. It proves exactly what I had posted earlier. I believe

The car in your photo has no floor at all and has no need of one. Look at how the short,

Cylindrical load is carried. It is “pinched”, if you will, by large timbers on the regular deck

of the car. Those timbers are then heavily braced to be sure the load cannot drop any lower.

To be doubly sure you will note that there is additional timbering just below its extreme

Height. Thus no floor was needed.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Bruce Smith
 

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Looking for...

Keith Retterer
 

All the WM builder's photos I have from that era are lettered with the road name only - no heralds.


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Photo: Seamless Pipe Fitting Load On GN Flat Car 60031 (1956) now PRR cars

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

 

    Thanks for the PRR photo Schuyler. It proves exactly what I had posted earlier. I believe

The car in your photo has no floor at all and has no need of one. Look at how the short,

Cylindrical load is carried. It is “pinched”, if you will, by large timbers on the regular deck

of the car. Those timbers are then heavily braced to be sure the load cannot drop any lower.

To be doubly sure you will note that there is additional timbering just below its extreme

Height. Thus no floor was needed.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


Re: Image of CP 238149 40ft ss box 1952 Lowell IN

Michael Aufderheide
 

Schuyler,

Alas, it was a bonfire! Tank cars in the train loaded with alcohol caught fire.

See:
https://monon.org/bygone_site/monon/mon.html

Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

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