Date   

Re: Photo: Loading Oats Into Boxcars (1926)

Donald B. Valentine
 

And I might add a standard CPR Dominion Car, Claus, with a more heavily built grain

Door as Bob noted yesterday.

 

My best, Don Valentine

 

 


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Donald B. Valentine
 

Hi Bruce, Claus and all,

 

     I think you had in right, Bruce, in noting that every new paint has a learning curve. As noted

earlier, I’ve been using Accu-Paint since George Bishop first introduced it and have alsways been pleased with it. Since Tru-Color now offers the same paint have seen no reason to change. It took me some time to get used to Accu-Paint having used nothing other than Scalecoat and Floquil before. My first experience with an airbrush was at the MIT Model RR Club in 1967 under the tutelage of Andy Miller, whom many on this list know as Andy is here too. The airbrush was a Paasche Model H single action one which I found very easy and pleasant to use. I soon had my own and now have two of them. I do believe the make and model of airbrush can make a serious difference as each model, as well as make, seems to handle differently. I once tried a Paasche double action brush, for example, and didn’t like it. I’ve also know a few folks who began with Badger but switched to a Paasche and liked the Paasche better. YMMV. Pressure is also an important consideration. I use 35-40 psi of a compressor with a good sized tank that can supply that pressure continuously without fail. Having burned out a bearing on a diaphragm compressor years ago I have used a larger compressor that is needed for cleaning farm machinery and such ever since with a 5 gallon tank. That’s overkill to a degree but not when using my North Coast grit blaster or for other things. It should be noted that I’ve never had a problem with a Paasche airbrush clogging, especially when 35 psi or a bit higher is maintained. Thinner is another issue and I’ll not that I’ve noticed some minor differences in viscosity and fluid level in the bottle with Tru-Color that I don’t ever recall finding with Accu-Paint. Perhaps a call to Rick Galazzo of Tru-Color is in order. I reach him at 714-488-9779. I thin almost ever bottle with a mix of 90% lacquer thinner and 10% zylene give or take a bit just as I do with ScaleCoat. I haven’t painted in a bit but have some to do in the next few days and will update this report then.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Express Car Movements

Tony Thompson
 

Excellent summary. Thank you.
Tony Thompson 


On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:59 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:



You need to distinguish between express box cars and LCL service.

An express box car or express reefer would be in passenger service. So a train like a “fast mail” could have express cars from several railroads in its consist. PRR and B&O express cars ended up in Los Angeles.

LCL cars were in freight service. With the exception of some cars that were painted for company advertising, LCL cars were just cars. Those specially painted cars ended up being a pain in the neck to railroads when they came to an LCL transload facility, as the home railroad wanted to keep them on their own rails, which was not very practical. In the days before UPS and FedX, as many as 20% of the box cars on the railroads contained LCL shipments. These could be in anyone’s cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:46 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Would express freight such as"LCL, Overnight, reefers, etc" roam off of their home roads and if so, how far might they travel?

 

I am modeling a Southern layout c1955 and have some SAL Express Freight and Reefers  L&N express refers and NC&Stl express refers and some MONON express boxcar and trying to determine if they are appropriate on this layout.

 

Thanks

 

Allen Csin


Re: Express Car Movements

Tony Thompson
 

Excellent summary. Thank you.
Tony Thompson 


On Jul 31, 2020, at 8:59 PM, James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:



You need to distinguish between express box cars and LCL service.

An express box car or express reefer would be in passenger service. So a train like a “fast mail” could have express cars from several railroads in its consist. PRR and B&O express cars ended up in Los Angeles.

LCL cars were in freight service. With the exception of some cars that were painted for company advertising, LCL cars were just cars. Those specially painted cars ended up being a pain in the neck to railroads when they came to an LCL transload facility, as the home railroad wanted to keep them on their own rails, which was not very practical. In the days before UPS and FedX, as many as 20% of the box cars on the railroads contained LCL shipments. These could be in anyone’s cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:46 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Would express freight such as"LCL, Overnight, reefers, etc" roam off of their home roads and if so, how far might they travel?

 

I am modeling a Southern layout c1955 and have some SAL Express Freight and Reefers  L&N express refers and NC&Stl express refers and some MONON express boxcar and trying to determine if they are appropriate on this layout.

 

Thanks

 

Allen Csin


Re: Express Car Movements

Steve SANDIFER
 

You need to distinguish between express box cars and LCL service.

An express box car or express reefer would be in passenger service. So a train like a “fast mail” could have express cars from several railroads in its consist. PRR and B&O express cars ended up in Los Angeles.

LCL cars were in freight service. With the exception of some cars that were painted for company advertising, LCL cars were just cars. Those specially painted cars ended up being a pain in the neck to railroads when they came to an LCL transload facility, as the home railroad wanted to keep them on their own rails, which was not very practical. In the days before UPS and FedX, as many as 20% of the box cars on the railroads contained LCL shipments. These could be in anyone’s cars.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:46 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Would express freight such as"LCL, Overnight, reefers, etc" roam off of their home roads and if so, how far might they travel?

 

I am modeling a Southern layout c1955 and have some SAL Express Freight and Reefers  L&N express refers and NC&Stl express refers and some MONON express boxcar and trying to determine if they are appropriate on this layout.

 

Thanks

 

Allen Csin


now NYC depressed well flat

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Eldon Gatwood asked:

> Forgive the late date of photo, but I do not have one in NYC days.  What does anyone know of this car in its early days?  Was it an NYC product? 

NYC 499064-499073, class 704-F, built DSI 1941

Scott Chatfield


Re: C&O 80977 Well Car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 



On Jul 31, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...> wrote:

<P-2042-02 Runner 41 C_O 80977.jpg>

Thanks for that photo Richard.  Photos of that car are very, very rare.  Although it is unlikely that this car ever saw SP trackage it remains one of my favorites.  Although built over 40 years ago it still stands tall on my roster.

Bill Pardie


Re: Transformers and Runner to Skagit River Railway Powerhouse

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Jul 31, 2020, at 16:04, Richard Wilkens <railsnw123@...> wrote:

Here is a sequence of views of transformers and runner being delivered on the Seattle City Light Skagit River Railway in early 1950's.

View 01 - Here we have Skagit River Railway center cab diesel No. 7 with covered hopper of cement for Ross Powerhouse construction, GN gondola, two General Electric drop center flats with transformers and Pennsylvania well car PRR 470031. Train is travelling from Rockport, WA which was the connection with the Great Northern to Newhalem which is the base of operations for the Skagit Power project.
In the foreground is what looks like a Dodge/Plymouth/De Soto..

View 05 - Nice view of the barge being moved by the tugboat Ruby 2.
That arrangement is called a hip tow - the tug has almost perfect control of the barge.


Re: GN 60002 Well Car

David Soderblom
 

Every time I see an image like this I can’t help noting all the exquisite details:
  • The EXCESS HEIGHT placard, but it’’s too wide for the wood it’s stapled to, so it’s folded: both of them!  Was that from the force of air of movement?  And you can read the letters on the stake pocket castings, and they’re not identical!
  • The CLEANED placard on FGEX 265 behind the flat car:I haven’t seen that one before.  and the FGEX car is virginal — it must have just been delivered: not a speck of dust or grime or any imperfection.
  • We should all save pretty much save everything small out of our kitchens and shops as plausible loads.
  • Looks to be a hole flat: you-all can provide the technicalities.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA







Photo: MINX 1039 (3M Company, Circa 1949)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: MINX 1039 (3M Company, Circa 1949)

A photo by Ed Von Nordeck courtesy of the Corona Model Railroad Society:

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/991aa4_58d1079ed82348a4951af0522f861fae~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_600,h_381,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/EVN%20Pictures%20without%20Locos-3M.webp

Description by Evan Werkema: One of Ed's photos posted several months back included a glimpse of an old wooden 3M boxcar behind a pair of zebra striped GP7's.  The car was used to serve the 3M facility on the Elsinore Branch. Ed's description from that thread: "Yes, it was a 3M car. They would store them on a unused industry track in front of the station. Wood truss car for some of them. Not in interchange service, but to haul roof granules to the Los Angeles area, prior to using 60 ft. mill gons and later covered hoppers." Here is a full broadside of one of those cars, MINX 1039. Lettering on the side shows the car was built in 1910, and that Santa Fe had repainted it at the San Bernardino Shops in April 1949. Lettering just to the left of the door says, "Please unload and return this car promptly to the owner at Corona, Cal."

This is part of a photo collection of mostly Corona area steam and diesel locomotives hosted by the Corona Model Railroad Society at:

https://www.cmrsclub.com/photography-of-ed-v

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Tru Color and Accupaint: was Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Andy Carlson
 

MYTH: "Accupaint is actually a variety of ink".
Answer--Accupaint is a lacquer and years ago the myth that the product is an ink started. It simply is not true. I spread this rumor also before being informed.

Though I have not liked Floquill for decades, I have used Floquil white as a primer for brass and resin before coloring with AccuPaint. A white primer on a plastic diesel has worked well for me in the past, especially for light colors and reds. I have never used Accupaint primer. Never use Accupaint for resin without a primer.

I have never air brushed any paint straight from the bottle. Lacquers especially need to be very thin, it needs to lay down wet to have a good finish. I have heard it should be reduced to the thickness of milk--I would go even thinner.

There are many better paints for brass steam than Accupaint. Scalecoat I for brass steam is almost universally accepted as ideal.

It is mostly unnecessary to spray a clear coat over Accupaint before decaling. Many early admirers of Accupaint felt that its quick ability to be painted, decaled and finish coated made it highly regarded. It dries very quickly. No need to wait overnight, or for days, to decal an AccuPaint finish. The product formerly know as Pledge sticks quite well to AccuPaint.

Many paints are now, or have been available for train model painting and many of the favorites I have never tried. I personally like Accupaint and 30 years ago I called it "Goof Proof Paint" as it lays down so well. One of the earliest Accupaint projects I layed the paint down too fast and sags were showing up. I rushed to soak a rag with lacquer thinner to quickly wipe off the still fresh paint. Boy was I surprised to see that the paint was already set, and in a nice gloss sheen with NO sag! The nickname Goof Proof arrived that same day.

-Andy Carlson

On Friday, July 31, 2020, 3:12:55 PM PDT, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


I have NEVER understood what was so bloody wonderful about Accupaint and now Tru-Color.  It never worked for me.  I paint a lot of brass, and when I painted a couple of things with the Accupaint primer for brass, it was so thick that I thought I was going to lose the louvers on a brass model diesel.  It DID thin out some after a couple of days but OTOH, I did obscure some detail, or make grab irons visibly larger in diameter.  Who wants that?

 

I will say that George Bishops decals simply NAILED the paint schemes he did them for.  I have a lot of those still, and found that to apply them over Scalecoat I had to apply a clearcoat.  There’s nothing quite as “exciting” as realizing that as you’re adjusting the exact location of a large decal, you are also adjusting the location of a substantial sheet of paint!  The clearcoat solves that issue.

 

Accupaint is actually a variety of ink.  I presume that Tru-Color is as well.

 

Schuyler

 


NP Log Cars

James L. Jeffery
 

Have for sale (4) 41ft Northern Pacific log flatcars with Seattle Car & Foundry sprung archbar trucks satin brass finish plus brake rigging.These cars were built during the 1920s. Unpainted, couplers excluded.
Photos if requested.
Cars were produced by Far East Distributors
All four $140.00
Postal Money orders only
contact: jimj2100@...

Jim Jeffery
Puyallup, WA


Transformers and Runner to Skagit River Railway Powerhouse

Richard Wilkens
 

Here is a sequence of views of transformers and runner being delivered on the Seattle City Light Skagit River Railway in early 1950's.

View 01 - Here we have Skagit River Railway center cab diesel No. 7 with covered hopper of cement for Ross Powerhouse construction, GN gondola, two General Electric drop center flats with transformers and Pennsylvania well car PRR 470031. Train is travelling from Rockport, WA which was the connection with the Great Northern to Newhalem which is the base of operations for the Skagit Power project.

View 02 - At Newhalem the cars were turned over to electric locomotives for the trip to Diablo Dam. Here is General Electric 40001 at Diablo and it will be transferred to the incline railway up Sourdough Mountain.

View 03 - All materials to build Diablo Dam as well as Ross Dam and powerhouse had to travel up this incline railway at Diablo. The platform travels a 68 degree slope and gains 313 feet in vertical distance and is raised and lowered by an electric winch. Only one accident occurred on the incline when a gear tooth broke causing the platform to crash to the bottom. At the time the platform had a hopper car of gravel and it flipped over killing a man who was hitching a ride. After this no one was allowed to ride the platform if a rail car was being transported at the same time.

View 04 - After passing the top of Diablo Dam an electric locomotive would spot the car to be loaded on a two car capacity barge for the trip up Diablo Lake. A winch lowered the car on to the barge and a tugboat moved the barge to Ross Dam which is upstream.

View 05 - Nice view of the barge being moved by the tugboat Ruby 2.

View 06 - Barge docked at the barge slip at Ross powerhouse.

View 07 - Finally the transformer at the Ross Powerhouse site. The winch can be seen and their was also a small gas locomotive for spotting cars.

Rich Wilkens


Express Car Movements

Allen Cain
 

Would express freight such as"LCL, Overnight, reefers, etc" roam off of their home roads and if so, how far might they travel?

I am modeling a Southern layout c1955 and have some SAL Express Freight and Reefers  L&N express refers and NC&Stl express refers and some MONON express boxcar and trying to determine if they are appropriate on this layout.

Thanks

Allen Csin


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] PRR 470031 Well Car

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Rich;

 

Thanks for that fabulous photo.

 

This is a PRR F37B actual F37B in its prime, with obvious well “hole” flat features (no floor), including lack of support under the floor that does not exist on a well hole flat.

 

This is EXACTLY the kind of load for which these cars were intentioned.  Load suspended on blocks at either end of the well, where the load should be concentrated.

 

Guys, What more can I provide, given what I know about these cars on many, many railroads?

 

Elden Gatwood

 

P.S. If you want more evidence of “well” versus  “well hole” flats, consult the PRRT&HS flat car book, or talk to me privately.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Wilkens
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 6:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] PRR 470031 Well Car

 

Continuing the well car / depressed center car threads. These are various photos from the Seattle City Light Skagit Power Project.

PRR 470031 with runner for Seattle City Light Ross Powerhouse, car on GN at Rockport, WA in 1950's.

Rich Wilkens


C&O 80977 Well Car

Richard Wilkens
 

Photo of runner for Ross Powerhouse generator No. 41 on C&O 80977 well car. Photo taken at Rockport, WA on Great Northern after the Skagit River Railway was abandoned and runner was delivered on lowboy trailer.

Rich Wilkens


GN 60002 Well Car

Richard Wilkens
 

Here are four more photos of Great Northern well car GN 60002, including closeup of well. These were taken in October 1958 and shows runner for Diablo generator No. 32.

Rich Wilkens


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I have NEVER understood what was so bloody wonderful about Accupaint and now Tru-Color.  It never worked for me.  I paint a lot of brass, and when I painted a couple of things with the Accupaint primer for brass, it was so thick that I thought I was going to lose the louvers on a brass model diesel.  It DID thin out some after a couple of days but OTOH, I did obscure some detail, or make grab irons visibly larger in diameter.  Who wants that?

 

I will say that George Bishops decals simply NAILED the paint schemes he did them for.  I have a lot of those still, and found that to apply them over Scalecoat I had to apply a clearcoat.  There’s nothing quite as “exciting” as realizing that as you’re adjusting the exact location of a large decal, you are also adjusting the location of a substantial sheet of paint!  The clearcoat solves that issue.

 

Accupaint is actually a variety of ink.  I presume that Tru-Color is as well.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 5:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

Like many I’m experimenting with Tru-Color paints. I’ve had some rude experiences, and also gotten some nice results. FWIW, here are my experiences so far …

 

1) The volatiles escape from the Tru-Color bottles. I do NOT think this is due to poor caps or seals, but actual escape through the walls of the bottles. Same problem with the old Accupaint. BAD!

 

2) Fortunately the paint can be reconstituted by just adding their thinner (NOT cheap). Some suggest that all the new bottles SHOULD be full, and that low paint levels indicate loss of thinner. This may well be true … see “1” above. They need different bottles!!

 

3) However, even a full bottle is nowhere near being sprayable with conventional equipment. I use Paashe “H” and “VL” brushes, usually with the #3 needle. To spray Tru-Color I need to thin the paint at least 1:1 or sometimes 2:1 with thinner. Even then it tends to dry in the airbrush tip and gum up the spray at best or even clog the gun.

 

4) It does not stick hardly at all to metal, and poorly to most resin (seems “OK” on styrene). Use of a primer is necessary. NOT Tru-color primer! … it seems to be  just their own paint in light gray color. It does NOT stick either. Floquil primer works well for this, *IF* you still have any. I have heard, and am about to start trying, Tamiya primers (gray or red, acrylic) in spray cans. These get VERY good reviews. Generally I’m cautious about applying different paints over one another, but this combination seems to work for other experienced modelers. I’ll find out.

 

5) I once painted a nice HO passenger car in classic pullman-green … Floquil primer followed by Tru-color paint. I ovesprayed it with Testor’s Glosscoat, let it dry, and applied decals. I let it dry well (a few days). It looked good. Then had to do just little masking and applied the tape, sprayed the paint, and then attempted to remove the tape. DISASTER! The Glosscoat peeled off like a huge sheet of cellophane, naturally taking most of the decals with it. The Glosscoat had NOT adhered to the Tru-color at all. I have NEVER had this happen previously with Glosscoat applied over ANY other paints. I fear (but have not experienced) similar issues with Dullcoat. I wonder, and am experimenting, with Dullcoat and other overcoats.

 

6) I have tried the Tru-color “flat” paints. They are less glossy than regular Tru-color, but hardly “flat” at all. This is not particularly serious as normally a dull overcoat solves this problem, EXCEPT see “5" above.

 

7) I clean-up equipment with cheap commercial lacquer thinner, but thin paint ONLY with the manufacturer’s recommended thinner.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========

 

 

 



On Jul 31, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

 

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

 

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

 

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

 

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

 

Regards,

Bruce

 

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

claus:

ever give a thought of discussing

this problem with the manufacture?

as an aside, why buy a half bottle of

paint, better yet why didn't the lhs

spot this?

just asking?

;-)

mel perry

 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Bruce and List Members.

 

I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.

 

I was quite unhappy with what I got.

 

Here is what I found...

 

(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.

 

(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!

 

(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces

 

I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!

 

As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized

 

So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C

 

If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!

 

Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM

Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

Don, Folks,

 

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

 

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.

Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.

Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io<riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors

than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is

the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to

give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after

that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since

George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the

same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before

photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the

NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding

before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color

you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers

each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble

Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the

freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very

few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been

satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.

Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine

 


PRR 470031 Well Car

Richard Wilkens
 

Continuing the well car / depressed center car threads. These are various photos from the Seattle City Light Skagit Power Project.

PRR 470031 with runner for Seattle City Light Ross Powerhouse, car on GN at Rockport, WA in 1950's.

Rich Wilkens


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Like many I’m experimenting with Tru-Color paints. I’ve had some rude experiences, and also gotten some nice results. FWIW, here are my experiences so far …

1) The volatiles escape from the Tru-Color bottles. I do NOT think this is due to poor caps or seals, but actual escape through the walls of the bottles. Same problem with the old Accupaint. BAD!

2) Fortunately the paint can be reconstituted by just adding their thinner (NOT cheap). Some suggest that all the new bottles SHOULD be full, and that low paint levels indicate loss of thinner. This may well be true … see “1” above. They need different bottles!!

3) However, even a full bottle is nowhere near being sprayable with conventional equipment. I use Paashe “H” and “VL” brushes, usually with the #3 needle. To spray Tru-Color I need to thin the paint at least 1:1 or sometimes 2:1 with thinner. Even then it tends to dry in the airbrush tip and gum up the spray at best or even clog the gun.

4) It does not stick hardly at all to metal, and poorly to most resin (seems “OK” on styrene). Use of a primer is necessary. NOT Tru-color primer! … it seems to be  just their own paint in light gray color. It does NOT stick either. Floquil primer works well for this, *IF* you still have any. I have heard, and am about to start trying, Tamiya primers (gray or red, acrylic) in spray cans. These get VERY good reviews. Generally I’m cautious about applying different paints over one another, but this combination seems to work for other experienced modelers. I’ll find out.

5) I once painted a nice HO passenger car in classic pullman-green … Floquil primer followed by Tru-color paint. I ovesprayed it with Testor’s Glosscoat, let it dry, and applied decals. I let it dry well (a few days). It looked good. Then had to do just little masking and applied the tape, sprayed the paint, and then attempted to remove the tape. DISASTER! The Glosscoat peeled off like a huge sheet of cellophane, naturally taking most of the decals with it. The Glosscoat had NOT adhered to the Tru-color at all. I have NEVER had this happen previously with Glosscoat applied over ANY other paints. I fear (but have not experienced) similar issues with Dullcoat. I wonder, and am experimenting, with Dullcoat and other overcoats.

6) I have tried the Tru-color “flat” paints. They are less glossy than regular Tru-color, but hardly “flat” at all. This is not particularly serious as normally a dull overcoat solves this problem, EXCEPT see “5" above.

7) I clean-up equipment with cheap commercial lacquer thinner, but thin paint ONLY with the manufacturer’s recommended thinner.

Dan Mitchell
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On Jul 31, 2020, at 4:55 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Actually, the "partial" bottle problem was a part I already knew about. As Andy Carlson pointed out, the bottles don't do a perfect job of sealing and can evaporate volatiles. That was one of the cautions I did find on line when searching for information about these paints.

Claus, your 1/2 bottle has the correct amount of "paint", just not the correct amount of thinner. That's why it paints like mud!

As for the flat finish, it may also reflect a loss of volatiles. 

My bottle was full to the shoulders, so I did not add any thinner to bring it up. There was some chatter on line about the air-brush ready paints (not the 800 series, like Claus' but 019, like mine) might not be air-brush ready and that certainly seems to be true, at least for some. I'm thinking I may need to thin it 1:2 paint to thinner or more to really get any "action".

And yeah, the whole "I have to have another chemical on hand to clean up", acetone, even if it is available in my wife's and daughter's bathroom cabinets (nail polish remover) isn't thrilling me either. I get it if this is your go-to paint, but I have at least 3 different types of paint on hand.

There is a blog on the Tru-Color web site that covers some of these issues, but it isn't that helpful for others.

Regards,
Bruce



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 3:35 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 
claus:
ever give a thought of discussing
this problem with the manufacture?
as an aside, why buy a half bottle of
paint, better yet why didn't the lhs
spot this?
just asking?
;-)
mel perry


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 1:25 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Bruce and List Members.
 
I also had my first experience using Tru-Color Paint in recent days. I purchased one bottle each of TCP-822 FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN and TCP-830 FLAT RAIL BROWN.
 
I was quite unhappy with what I got.
 
Here is what I found...
 
(1) The instructions say that each of these is supposed to be ready to brush right out of the bottle (instructions indicate this is true for all the 800-series Tru-Color paint). When opened, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN bottle was reasonable full, and the paint within had a reasonable viscosity. The bottle of FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was only about 1/2 full, and the paint was noticably much thicker in terms of viscosity. There was no visible indication that the bottle had been previously used or opened before I bought it. But I have to wonder - why the huge difference in thickness? And why was it only half full? Did one of them evaporate due to an incomplete seal of the bottle at the factory? I was somewhat surprised by this, but I do wonder if maybe the plastic bottles and caps provided don't seal as tightly as they need to.
 
(2) I went ahead and used them anyway as-is. The FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was brushed onto the metal rails of some clean new track. The FLAT RAIL BROWN was painted onto the ties. While the colors looked good as they went on, the thickness of the FLAT RAILROAD TIE BROWN was a bit of an issue. I went back and looked at things once the paint had fully dried, and I saw that both dried to a mildly glossy finish. By no stretch of my imagination was this a FLAT finish, yet both colors specifrically say they are a FLAT finish paint - sez so right in the name of the color!
 
(3) Once fully cured, I found that the FLAT RAIL BROWN paint did not stick very well to the metal rails - if you breathe on it the wrong way the paint falls right off - argh! I will say that the (incredibly unbelievably tiny, almost microscopically small) directions for use printed on the bottle say "Primers can be used on metals and plastics, if desired", but I read this as telling me that primers are OPTIONAL, not required for these surfaces
 
I looked over their web site at https://trucolorpaint.com/products/paint/ and did not find any obvious place that contained directions for use, or hints for a good finish, no recommendations for primers nor what surfaces might need priming, I did not even find a recommeded thinner!
 
As I mentioned, I bought these from my LHS, they cost $6.19 per bottle there, so for this price I kinda expected the paint to work as advertized
 
So far, I am entirely disappointed - I give the paint a letter grade of D- and I give the web site a letter grade of C
 
If I'm doing something wrong, would someone kindly PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS!
 
Thanks in advance - Claus Schlund
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 2:35 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Don, Folks,

I used Tru-Color for the 1st time last night and today. There is definitely a learning curve with every new paint, but so far I'm mystified. I bought TCP-019, Santa Fe Brown, to paint a Bx-31 boxcar. This is supposedly a paint that needs no thinner. Using my Badger 200/210, I could not get it to airbrush at all. I added Tru-color thinner 1:1 and sort of got it to work but it was still really reluctant to flow. I tried at my normal 23 psi and at 30 psi. I did get the car painted and I like the finish, but I feel like it happened more by forcing it than by getting decent airbrush action.

Is it the airbrush? I can try my old badger 150 dual action, but I am reluctant because paint drying in the airbrush is clearly and issue.
Is it the PSI? I did see one post where the poster went to 35-40 psi.
Do I need to thin even more than 1:1?

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io<riverman_vt=yahoo.com@groups.io>
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2020 9:31 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark
 

 

    Frankly I am so pleased to have Tru-Color paint available in even more colors
than my late friend George Bishop provided for us in his line of Accu-Paint that is
the exact same paint from the same supplier that George used after Floquil tried to
give him a hard time. I know that story all to well and never bought Floquil after
that. Tru-Color has expanded the line and offers the same great paint I’ve used since
George first offered it as the new form of Accu-Paint. Even Gordon Cannon used the
same Accu-Paint in Erie-Lackawanna Gray to paint all samples of his products before
photographing them for advertising purposes, suggesting that I do the same with the
NERS “Pullman Parts” line, many of which he cut the molds for and did the molding
before his untimely loss. So why put up with the hassle of trying to figure out what color
you are really getting when some supplier sells the same paint to several other sellers
each of whom put a different label on it? This is nonsense. I’ve never had such trouble
Tru-color and have been very pleased with the way it handles and helps me keep the
freight cars of my choice rolling our of the car shop properly painted. I’ve know very
few modelers who have learned how to use Tru-Color properly who have ever been
satisfied with any other model paint they have tried on resin or styrene models. Try it.
Learn how to use it properly and you’ll swear by it.

 

    No, I have no financial involvement with Tru-Color but would be lost without it.

 

Cordially, Don Valentine