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Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Brian Carlson
 

On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:34 PM, Ken Adams <smadanek44g@...> wrote:

Is there a readily available correct HO plastic alternative to the Tichy underframe? I



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Re: Express Car Movements

George Eichelberger
 

Here is a cover letter and the first two, of sixteen, pages from the August, 1949 Chicago Association of Commerce and Industry “Package Car Service” Bulletin in the SRHA archives.

The term “package car” appears to have been used, at least in the Eastern US, almost universally for shipments that were not using an LCL tariff for loads going to more than one destination or consignee. Pages two through sixteen show package car routes out of Chicago to locations in the US and Canada.

Although I cannot locate a note confirming, the first entry for a route in “VIA” column is obviously the originating Chicago railroad.

There are multiple copies of the “Bulletin" in the SRHA archives in addition to several version of the “Merchandise Car Directory” published by the Southern Railway. I expect all major railroads had similar lists or publications. An article on package cars will be in an upcoming issue of “TIES”, the SRHA magazine.

The Southern chose not to have box cars marked for the service. As Atlanta was the largest source of out bound cars, the logic was there would always be empties in Atlanta to load at the three freight stations (plus Sears Roebuck) so having specially painted cars return empty was not efficient.

Ike






Photo: SP Flat Car 561679 Derailment (1959)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: SP Flat Car 561679 Derailment (1959)

Courtesy of Steve Crise, a Chard Walker photo from the Pacific Railroad Society Museum archives of a derailment in San Bernardino.

Looks like a load of very large pipe segments. Some good detail of the load blocking.

Pacific Railroad Society Museum website:

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/PRS_Museum.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Ken Adams
 

Is there a readily available correct HO plastic alternative to the Tichy underframe? IM says it no longer sells parts. Another 3 D printed part in need of development?
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Allen;

 

After the PRR’s foray into specially-painted box cars for LCL service in the late forties, there were a few fits and starts, some additional, cheaper paint schemes added, but LCL on the PRR was a failure.  Thereafter, the cars ended up not moving from freight house to freight house on the PRR, went into general service, roamed all over, where those pretty paint schemes deteriorated.

 

The last (in date) I have seen one in its “Merchandise Service” paint was the attached Dick Kuelbs photo he took in Dallas in 1962, IIRC.  So, they did get around, and in these paint jobs, that late.

 

This is not the only one I have seen this far off-line, nor well after their LCL service.  I have a photo somewhere, of a similar car on the west coast, some time in the late fifties.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 9:42 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Thanks for all who contributed.

 

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

 

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen Cain


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Tony Thompson
 

That’s what PFE called the “built-up” underframe of R-30-13 and friends.
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:43 AM, radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 09:30 AM, Dick Harley wrote:
Terry Wegmann tooling for the RR Design
Dick, You've added a term I am not familiar with and haven't found on your great website (which I love).
"RR Design"  What underframe is this in reference to?
 Thx,
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Express Car Movements

mopacfirst
 

I would caution that many LCL cars from roads other than NYC had full interchange data from the get-go, based on what the stenciling drawing called for.  I suspect that was 'just in case the car goes offline'.  The MP Eagle merchandise cars did for sure, although the cars in question were specifically stenciled not to be sent offline.  Perhaps those routes used standard boxcars or, perhaps, the other roads' merchandise cars, since they could re re-sorted, as Steve mentions, at the St. Louis freight house.

Ron Merrick


Re: Express Car Movements

Nelson Moyer
 

So full AAR data and in NYC case color of reporting marks are the keys to matching these cars to modeling dates and availability for interchange. Very useful information. Thanks.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Edward
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

[Edited Message Follows]

When the NYC Pacemaker b ox cars first went into service, they did not have the full AAR data on them required for interchange.  Only the Load Limit and Light Weight were shown below the car number. The were in captive, on-line service.  Within a few years the red and gray Pacemakers were released for interchange. In so doing, they usually got black (instead of the original white) reporting marks with full data for capacity, weigh station, date, cubic footage and car dimensions.  In that form, a NYC Pacemaker box car could show up in SoCal, as could a B&O blue and sliver Sentinel car, which had full data on them when new. 

The B&O blue with the orange comet "Time Saver" service cars were very few in number. The B&O Group when on Yahoo could only identify nine such cars from photos. None had sequential numbers and some sported a different roof color. These cars did not seem to last long in that livery, suggesting B&O did them up for advertising at special events such as state fairs in its service territory. When shopped, they were repainted in the standard freight livery.   Sentinels were maintained with blue and silver until the early 1950's, when B&O ordered that this paint job was no longer to be used and such cars when shopped were to be repainted in standard oxide red. A few cars not needing heavy repairs kept their Sentinel blue and silver into the late 1950's.     
Ed Bommer


Re: Express Car Movements

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for that confirmation.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2020 10:11 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

A MoPac Eagle LCL car could have made it to SoCal, but it's not very likely, only because these were mostly 40' and 36' low-cube cars rebuilt from single-sheathed cars without changing the roof height.  

An NYC Pacemaker definitely made it to Oklahoma or Texas, because I have a (poor, but identifiable) photo of one southbound through Kansas on the RI in 1969.

Ron Merrick


Re: Express Car Movements

Steve SANDIFER
 

LCL freight cars would roam the country just like any other freight car. Let’s say you are a mfg. in New Jersey. You take your stuff to the freight house. The freight house has enough stuff from various senders to ship to Los Angeles to fill two cars, so they do.  Another car may head to Atlanta, another to Memphis, another to Houston. Those cars will be put in trains and interchanged until they get to the freight houses in those cities, sealed all the way. Cars for that use can be pulled from the local empties using car interchange rules.

However, they also have a package headed to Dime Box Texas and Toad Suck Arkansas. Those will be consolidated into cars headed to the Houston and Little Rock areas. Branch line trains or coordinated rail-truck freight will finally deliver those packages. If those cars are not full, they may stop in St. Louis and/or Kansas City to be further sorted and consolidated. The package which left New Jersey in a Union Pacific box car might be carried by 3 different box cars before it arrived at its destination. Most transload facilities received cars all day, swapped packages from one car to another, then were pulled around 6-7:00p to head to their next destination hopefully to arrive by 6:00a for delivery the next day. At a freight or transload house, every spot on every track had a designated destination, and everyone on the dock knew that system – it was the same every day. If a box car loaded with mixed destination freight arrived from Chicago and was spotted at the New Orleans spot, it will be unloaded and then reloaded with packages headed to New Orleans. No one cared who the home road was for that car – it was in the New Orleans spot, to New Orleans it would go. Had it come in 30 minutes later, it might be in the Chicago spot headed back to Chicago. About 5p the freight house will close to new freight shipments, all the cars will be finished up, loads braced, and then the house will be pulled pretty much at one time, the cars taken to the yard and put on trains. Crews would not normally pull one car, then come back and pull another, etc. Remember the cars were often spotted 4-5 cars wide with their doors lined up and bridges placed between the cars to facilitate  movement from one car to another. You did not come and pull a car from the middle of that.  The freight house tracks would sit empty most of the night as new arrivals came on the overnight trains.  

Look at the photos sent yesterday of Chicago. Freight houses were everywhere in the downtown area.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Thanks for all who contributed.

 

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

 

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen Cain


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

radiodial868
 

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 09:30 AM, Dick Harley wrote:
Terry Wegmann tooling for the RR Design
Dick, You've added a term I am not familiar with and haven't found on your great website (which I love).
"RR Design"  What underframe is this in reference to?
 Thx,
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Express Car Movements

mopacfirst
 

Clarifying my post, I was thinking of the period after the LCL tariffs were abolished, and/or if a car was 'captured' by somebody having a request for a car one morning when there weren't any regular ones around.

Ron Merrick


Re: Express Car Movements

mopacfirst
 

A MoPac Eagle LCL car could have made it to SoCal, but it's not very likely, only because these were mostly 40' and 36' low-cube cars rebuilt from single-sheathed cars without changing the roof height.  

An NYC Pacemaker definitely made it to Oklahoma or Texas, because I have a (poor, but identifiable) photo of one southbound through Kansas on the RI in 1969.

Ron Merrick


Re: Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Which, of course, is why the decals were a >>perfect<< match for the paint.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 9:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Tru Color was ] Vallejo box car red from micro-Mark

 

Hi Schuyler,

 

     I think you are correct in that Accu-Paint and Tru-Color are actually a type of ink.

When Floquil began giving George Bishop a hard time he went to the supplier of ink

for his decals and they supplied the “paint” as well!

 

My best, Don Valentine


Re: Express Car Movements

Edward
 
Edited

When the NYC Pacemaker b ox cars first went into service, they did not have the full AAR data on them required for interchange.  Only the Load Limit and Light Weight were shown below the car number. The were in captive, on-line service.  Within a few years the red and gray Pacemakers were released for interchange. In so doing, they usually got black (instead of the original white) reporting marks with full data for capacity, weigh station, date, cubic footage and car dimensions.  In that form, a NYC Pacemaker box car could show up in SoCal, as could a B&O blue and sliver Sentinel car, which had full data on them when new. 

The B&O blue with the orange comet "Time Saver" service cars were very few in number. The B&O Group when on Yahoo could only identify nine such cars from photos. None had sequential numbers and some sported a different roof color. These cars did not seem to last long in that livery, suggesting B&O did them up for advertising at special events such as state fairs in its service territory. When shopped, they were repainted in the standard freight livery.   Sentinels were maintained with blue and silver until the early 1950's, when B&O ordered that this paint job was no longer to be used and such cars when shopped were to be repainted in standard oxide red. A few cars not needing heavy repairs kept their Sentinel blue and silver into the late 1950's.     
Ed Bommer


Re: Express Car Movements

Nelson Moyer
 

As a practical extension of this additional information, would a NYC Pacemaker or a Mopac Eagle car ever make it so SoCal?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2020 8:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Allen,

 And to add to this excellent summary ... there was a fad of painting up some 
regular box cars for "expedited" service.  The SP Overnight, B&O Sentinel,
GN Orange and Green, etc., etc., etc.
  All of the RRs actually started out using those particular cars in some
special service (usually on their own rails) ... and in about 2 years time
those cars became "any box car - any load" cars and the paint on them
was merely an advertisement.  And, frequently, they didn't actually
provide better service than any other even in their earliest years!
  Think "marketing that doesn't actually mean anything" and you have it.
A few RRs actually put considerable extra effort to provide the advertised
service ... but the realities were that it was too costly and there were so
many reasons why it wasn't really happening that they quickly 
abandoned the attempts. 
  It was quite common for one of these cars to find its way into a
regular freight - and when that happened the "special service" they
were meant to be providing was out the window.  Likewise, it was
likely that they would not be loaded with the 'right stuff' to justify
special handling and again the use of these "special" cars was
controverted.  Finally, as soon as one of those cars left the home
road's rails there was zero guarantee they'd get any kind of 
special handling.
  I am not talking about "express cars" - I'm talking about the 
regular box cars with special paint.  So if you are modeling the
correct year(s) and you want to use these cars - go for it - or
you can just use them in your regular service as "bright
shiny objects".  If you are into "era correctness" then you need
to consider the year that those cars were painted in that scheme
(even/especially if they aren't for "your" railroad).
                                                                                      - Jim 


Re: Express Car Movements

Allen Cain
 

Thanks for all who contributed.

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

Thanks again,

Allen Cain


Re: Express Car Movements

Jim Betz
 

Allen,

 And to add to this excellent summary ... there was a fad of painting up some 
regular box cars for "expedited" service.  The SP Overnight, B&O Sentinel,
GN Orange and Green, etc., etc., etc.
  All of the RRs actually started out using those particular cars in some
special service (usually on their own rails) ... and in about 2 years time
those cars became "any box car - any load" cars and the paint on them
was merely an advertisement.  And, frequently, they didn't actually
provide better service than any other even in their earliest years!
  Think "marketing that doesn't actually mean anything" and you have it.
A few RRs actually put considerable extra effort to provide the advertised
service ... but the realities were that it was too costly and there were so
many reasons why it wasn't really happening that they quickly 
abandoned the attempts. 
  It was quite common for one of these cars to find its way into a
regular freight - and when that happened the "special service" they
were meant to be providing was out the window.  Likewise, it was
likely that they would not be loaded with the 'right stuff' to justify
special handling and again the use of these "special" cars was
controverted.  Finally, as soon as one of those cars left the home
road's rails there was zero guarantee they'd get any kind of 
special handling.
  I am not talking about "express cars" - I'm talking about the 
regular box cars with special paint.  So if you are modeling the
correct year(s) and you want to use these cars - go for it - or
you can just use them in your regular service as "bright
shiny objects".  If you are into "era correctness" then you need
to consider the year that those cars were painted in that scheme
(even/especially if they aren't for "your" railroad).
                                                                                      - Jim 


Re: [ResinFreightCarBuilders] [Proto-Layouts] Hindsight 20/20/2.0 Registration is live

Ted Culotta
 

Working again.

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 8:31 AM Ted Culotta via groups.io <speedwitchmedia=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sorry.... just updated something on the site and you all probably can't get to the site right now. Fixing....

Ted Culotta
Speedwitch Media
P.O. Box 392, Guilford, CT 06437


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:28 AM Ted Culotta via groups.io <speedwitchmedia=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Flier attached. Please visit speedwitchmedia.com for the details.

I'm on vacation for a few more days so any queries may go unanswered for a bit.....

Thank you

Cheers,
Ted


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] now NYC depressed well flat

mopacfirst
 

The NYC 498996 is a pretty standard GSI flat, except I'm not sure what's going on at the far end of the car in this photo (the end toward the boxcar).  The body casting has an overhang along its entire length, so it looks like something was welded on here to bring the surface flush with the top edge of the car, for a few feet adjacent to the left end.

Ron Merrick

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