Date   

Re: Express Car Movements

Steve SANDIFER
 

And the Toad Suck ferry.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 5:29 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Friends,

 

This has nothing to do with freight cars, but Toad Suck, Arkansas, that Jim mentioned is a real place (sort of). The minister who married Sally and myself was from there, and his mother still lived in nearby Booger Hollow. Toad Suck is noted for the Toad Suck Dam and Locks. 

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff 🦆

 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 12:19 PM James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

LCL freight cars would roam the country just like any other freight car. Let’s say you are a mfg. in New Jersey. You take your stuff to the freight house. The freight house has enough stuff from various senders to ship to Los Angeles to fill two cars, so they do.  Another car may head to Atlanta, another to Memphis, another to Houston. Those cars will be put in trains and interchanged until they get to the freight houses in those cities, sealed all the way. Cars for that use can be pulled from the local empties using car interchange rules.

However, they also have a package headed to Dime Box Texas and Toad Suck Arkansas. Those will be consolidated into cars headed to the Houston and Little Rock areas. Branch line trains or coordinated rail-truck freight will finally deliver those packages. If those cars are not full, they may stop in St. Louis and/or Kansas City to be further sorted and consolidated. The package which left New Jersey in a Union Pacific box car might be carried by 3 different box cars before it arrived at its destination. Most transload facilities received cars all day, swapped packages from one car to another, then were pulled around 6-7:00p to head to their next destination hopefully to arrive by 6:00a for delivery the next day. At a freight or transload house, every spot on every track had a designated destination, and everyone on the dock knew that system – it was the same every day. If a box car loaded with mixed destination freight arrived from Chicago and was spotted at the New Orleans spot, it will be unloaded and then reloaded with packages headed to New Orleans. No one cared who the home road was for that car – it was in the New Orleans spot, to New Orleans it would go. Had it come in 30 minutes later, it might be in the Chicago spot headed back to Chicago. About 5p the freight house will close to new freight shipments, all the cars will be finished up, loads braced, and then the house will be pulled pretty much at one time, the cars taken to the yard and put on trains. Crews would not normally pull one car, then come back and pull another, etc. Remember the cars were often spotted 4-5 cars wide with their doors lined up and bridges placed between the cars to facilitate  movement from one car to another. You did not come and pull a car from the middle of that.  The freight house tracks would sit empty most of the night as new arrivals came on the overnight trains.  

Look at the photos sent yesterday of Chicago. Freight houses were everywhere in the downtown area.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Thanks for all who contributed.

 

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

 

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen Cain


Re: Express Car Movements

brianleppert@att.net
 

Nelson Moyer asked if a Mopac Eagle car ever made it to SoCal?  At least one got to Northern California.  On the back cover of Pacific News magazine #38, Oct. 1964 is a photo of MP 4??12, a 40' car in blue and grey Eagle Merchandise Service paint.  Photographed by Earl Spencer in 1956 on the Almanor Railroad, a short line that connected to the WP.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

mopacfirst
 

One theory -- the car was spotted right where it was photographed, on a siding with a bumper which looks like it could be a wheel-stop type (acting only on the wheels of the leading axle).  Switcher shoved a car into it, with some momentum, perhaps the GTW car shown.  Couplers overrode, the moving car's coupler punched the door in, and the restraining force was acting on the opposite truck, rather than the coupler like some other types of bumper would have done.  The impact caused the frame to yield at the two weak points, either side of the door openings, while the sides kept the roof and underbody relatively square in the areas where the sides were located.  Note that the stiffener under the door does not extend past the door openings on either side.  Doors probably fell off in the impact, and they probably were picked up right away if they were fouling the adjacent track.

Great failure photo.

Ron Merrick


Re: New Parts From National Scale Car

Ryan Mendell
 

Sorry my fat fingers hit the wrong button I meant to make a private reply 

Ryan


Re: New Parts From National Scale Car

Ryan Mendell
 

I can make some up for you.  How many do you want?  


On Aug 1, 2020, at 6:14 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


ryan:
are you going to rerun S100?
thanks
mel perry

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:27 PM Ryan Mendell <ryan.mendell@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

New Parts have been added to the National Scale Car Line

Tatumn Slack Adjusters and Tatumn Brake Steps

Further detail can be found at 

nationalscalecar.com

Ryan Mendell


Re: Express Car Movements

hubert mask
 

Being an Arkie myself there defiantly is such a place.   We called it toad suck ferry.

Hubert Mask
Mask Island Decals Inc.


On Aug 1, 2020, at 6:30 PM, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:

Friends,

This has nothing to do with freight cars, but Toad Suck, Arkansas, that Jim mentioned is a real place (sort of). The minister who married Sally and myself was from there, and his mother still lived in nearby Booger Hollow. Toad Suck is noted for the Toad Suck Dam and Locks. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 12:19 PM James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

LCL freight cars would roam the country just like any other freight car. Let’s say you are a mfg. in New Jersey. You take your stuff to the freight house. The freight house has enough stuff from various senders to ship to Los Angeles to fill two cars, so they do.  Another car may head to Atlanta, another to Memphis, another to Houston. Those cars will be put in trains and interchanged until they get to the freight houses in those cities, sealed all the way. Cars for that use can be pulled from the local empties using car interchange rules.

However, they also have a package headed to Dime Box Texas and Toad Suck Arkansas. Those will be consolidated into cars headed to the Houston and Little Rock areas. Branch line trains or coordinated rail-truck freight will finally deliver those packages. If those cars are not full, they may stop in St. Louis and/or Kansas City to be further sorted and consolidated. The package which left New Jersey in a Union Pacific box car might be carried by 3 different box cars before it arrived at its destination. Most transload facilities received cars all day, swapped packages from one car to another, then were pulled around 6-7:00p to head to their next destination hopefully to arrive by 6:00a for delivery the next day. At a freight or transload house, every spot on every track had a designated destination, and everyone on the dock knew that system – it was the same every day. If a box car loaded with mixed destination freight arrived from Chicago and was spotted at the New Orleans spot, it will be unloaded and then reloaded with packages headed to New Orleans. No one cared who the home road was for that car – it was in the New Orleans spot, to New Orleans it would go. Had it come in 30 minutes later, it might be in the Chicago spot headed back to Chicago. About 5p the freight house will close to new freight shipments, all the cars will be finished up, loads braced, and then the house will be pulled pretty much at one time, the cars taken to the yard and put on trains. Crews would not normally pull one car, then come back and pull another, etc. Remember the cars were often spotted 4-5 cars wide with their doors lined up and bridges placed between the cars to facilitate  movement from one car to another. You did not come and pull a car from the middle of that.  The freight house tracks would sit empty most of the night as new arrivals came on the overnight trains.  

Look at the photos sent yesterday of Chicago. Freight houses were everywhere in the downtown area.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Thanks for all who contributed.

 

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

 

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen Cain


Re: Express Car Movements

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

This has nothing to do with freight cars, but Toad Suck, Arkansas, that Jim mentioned is a real place (sort of). The minister who married Sally and myself was from there, and his mother still lived in nearby Booger Hollow. Toad Suck is noted for the Toad Suck Dam and Locks. 

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff 🦆

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 12:19 PM James SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

LCL freight cars would roam the country just like any other freight car. Let’s say you are a mfg. in New Jersey. You take your stuff to the freight house. The freight house has enough stuff from various senders to ship to Los Angeles to fill two cars, so they do.  Another car may head to Atlanta, another to Memphis, another to Houston. Those cars will be put in trains and interchanged until they get to the freight houses in those cities, sealed all the way. Cars for that use can be pulled from the local empties using car interchange rules.

However, they also have a package headed to Dime Box Texas and Toad Suck Arkansas. Those will be consolidated into cars headed to the Houston and Little Rock areas. Branch line trains or coordinated rail-truck freight will finally deliver those packages. If those cars are not full, they may stop in St. Louis and/or Kansas City to be further sorted and consolidated. The package which left New Jersey in a Union Pacific box car might be carried by 3 different box cars before it arrived at its destination. Most transload facilities received cars all day, swapped packages from one car to another, then were pulled around 6-7:00p to head to their next destination hopefully to arrive by 6:00a for delivery the next day. At a freight or transload house, every spot on every track had a designated destination, and everyone on the dock knew that system – it was the same every day. If a box car loaded with mixed destination freight arrived from Chicago and was spotted at the New Orleans spot, it will be unloaded and then reloaded with packages headed to New Orleans. No one cared who the home road was for that car – it was in the New Orleans spot, to New Orleans it would go. Had it come in 30 minutes later, it might be in the Chicago spot headed back to Chicago. About 5p the freight house will close to new freight shipments, all the cars will be finished up, loads braced, and then the house will be pulled pretty much at one time, the cars taken to the yard and put on trains. Crews would not normally pull one car, then come back and pull another, etc. Remember the cars were often spotted 4-5 cars wide with their doors lined up and bridges placed between the cars to facilitate  movement from one car to another. You did not come and pull a car from the middle of that.  The freight house tracks would sit empty most of the night as new arrivals came on the overnight trains.  

Look at the photos sent yesterday of Chicago. Freight houses were everywhere in the downtown area.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Allen Cain
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 8:42 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Thanks for all who contributed.

 

I am clear on the "Express" cars traveling around about anywhere but not so clear on the LCL cars.

 

Am I to understand that LCL FREIGHT cars would have TYPICALLY stayed on the home roads but COULD have strayed to other roads?

 

Thanks again,

 

Allen Cain


Re: Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

John Holmes
 

That would be an interesting model?

John Holmes

On Aug 1, 2020, at 12:43 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


that would be an interesting story?
mel perry


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 11:44 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

Courtesy of Steve Crise, a Jack Whitmeyer photo from the Pacific Railroad Society Museum archives of a wrecked Santa Fe automobile boxcar at Colton, CA.

This was a Class Fe-23 boxcar (number series 6786-6999), one of 214 former Fe-S cars rebuilt by the Topeka Shops in 1941. The Fe-S automobile boxcars were built in 1928.

Pacific Railroad Society Museum website:

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/PRS_Museum.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

<ATSF_6979_Wreck__Jack_Whitmeyer.JPG>


Re: New Parts From National Scale Car

mel perry
 

ryan:
are you going to rerun S100?
thanks
mel perry

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:27 PM Ryan Mendell <ryan.mendell@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

New Parts have been added to the National Scale Car Line

Tatumn Slack Adjusters and Tatumn Brake Steps

Further detail can be found at 

nationalscalecar.com

Ryan Mendell


Re: Express Car Movements

mel perry
 

interesting,  that even back then espee
& atsf, had the same time schedule, to
the bay area, even though atsf had a
longer route, were all of atsf trains run
on a "hot shot" schedule even back then?
mel perry

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 11:35 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Here is a cover letter and the first two, of sixteen, pages from the August, 1949 Chicago Association of Commerce and Industry “Package Car Service” Bulletin in the SRHA archives.

The term “package car” appears to have been used, at least in the Eastern US, almost universally for shipments that were not using an LCL tariff for loads going to more than one destination or consignee. Pages two through sixteen show package car routes out of Chicago to locations in the US and Canada.

Although I cannot locate a note confirming, the first entry for a route in “VIA” column is obviously the originating Chicago railroad.

There are multiple copies of the “Bulletin" in the SRHA archives in addition to several version of the “Merchandise Car Directory” published by the Southern Railway. I expect all major railroads had similar lists or publications. An article on package cars will be in an upcoming issue of “TIES”, the SRHA magazine.

The Southern chose not to have box cars marked for the service. As Atlanta was the largest source of out bound cars, the logic was there would always be empties in Atlanta to load at the three freight stations (plus Sears Roebuck) so having specially painted cars return empty was not efficient.

Ike






FS: Undecorated 40' Boxcar Kits

Roger Huber <trainpainter@...>
 

I have the following Mint HO scale undecorated boxcar kits for sale. They are all 40' unassembled and undecorated KITS.

2 ea     Accurail   3000   steel double door   black
6 ea     Red Caboose RC-7005   X29 1924 body style patch sides/plate ends
2 ea     InterMountain  40499      PS-1  6' door  gray
1 ea     IM    40495   PS-1  7' door   gray
3 ea     IM    40497   PS-1  8' door   gray
1 ea     IM    40798   10' high AAR  6' door  boxcar red
9 ea     IM    40799   10' high AAR 6' door   gray

Accurail kits    $10 ea
RC & IM kits   $25 ea
Price does not include shipping to US addresses ONLY. Payment by check or money order. Pay Pal FRIENDS & FAMILY

Please ask any questions OFF LINE!
Roger Huber
trainpainter@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] now NYC depressed well flat

Kenneth Montero
 

Quality Craft made a kit for this 61' well-hole flat car, in HO (1977 Prestige kit). The Chesapeake & Ohio version was kit no. 333, and the New York Central version was kit no. 334.  

The kit was unusual in that it contained all the parts for a pair of sprung 6-wheel Buckeye trucks except the wheel-axle sets. Quality Craft recommended the Athearn wheel set. I tried the Kadee wheel sets, but the axles may be a bit too short for this truck. I will have to measure an Athearn wheel set to check its length. This car has weight, as the end platforms are cast white metal.

As I discovered later, the trick to building a wood kit (especially this one) to simulate metal is to seal the exposed wood parts with sanding sealer, then smooth it with steel wool until the wood grain disappears. In my experience, the first coat of sanding sealer should be sanded down with 00 grade steel wool. The second and any further coats of sanding sealer should be sanded with 0000 steel wool until the wood grain disappears and the surface is absolutely slick.  I forgot to do this with the one that I built (guess where the grain shows), so I bought another copy of the kit to "try again"

A number of modelers are now substituting styrene strips and moldings in place of the wood parts whenever possible to get away from having to seal the wood parts. That works as long as the kit does not have any wood moldings that are not duplicated in plastic. I don't know if making a resin casting using the final shape of the wood as the master (and sanding the resin casting) would be a work-around that issue.

Ken Montero

On 08/01/2020 8:56 AM mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:


The NYC 498996 is a pretty standard GSI flat, except I'm not sure what's going on at the far end of the car in this photo (the end toward the boxcar).  The body casting has an overhang along its entire length, so it looks like something was welded on here to bring the surface flush with the top edge of the car, for a few feet adjacent to the left end.

Ron Merrick


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Dick Harley
 


Tony knows more than I do, but the RR Design did not "replace" the 30-ton Bettendorf underframes on PFE reefers.  They were a means to increase the number of cars PFE could get, without being limited by Bettendorf.  And old Bettendorf underframes were used in PFE rebuilds up through the R-30-21 class in the mid-1940s.

I use the terms "RR Design" and "Built-Up" interchangeably for those underframes.  Not sure I have a preference.  Many diagrams use both.
Here is a summary about them:
https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/PFETrainPhotos/PFE-Wood-Ice-Reefers/Bettendorf-vs-Built-Up/i-drRrvqG/A
I'll soon announce here more info on PFE wood reefer rebuilds on my SmugMug site.

If there was a significant problem with cracking of Bettendorf underframes on PFE reefers, that's news to me. 


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Tony Thompson
 

Not really. The Bettendorf people couldn’t produce underframes fast enough. Under 30-ton reefers, the Bettendorf frame was fine.
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:13 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


if you have a copy of the 5/86 MM, 
there's a short article re the rr design,
basically it was a replacement for the
bettendorf frame  whose center sill
was prone to cracking
;-)


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 8:43 AM radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 09:30 AM, Dick Harley wrote:
Terry Wegmann tooling for the RR Design
Dick, You've added a term I am not familiar with and haven't found on your great website (which I love).
"RR Design"  What underframe is this in reference to?
 Thx,
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Plate C model prototypes flat car details

Marty McGuirk
 

Just ran across these at my “local” hobby shop.
Two styles of drop shaft handbrakes for flatcars - Peacock and Universal.
Haven’t used them yet, but I’m the package they look nice.
A quick look at their website (www.platecmp.com) shows they have some other details as well.
These may be old news, but are new to me!
Packaging looks a lot like Tichy.

Marty McGuirk


New Parts From National Scale Car

Ryan Mendell
 
Edited

New Parts have been added to the National Scale Car Line

Tatumn Slack Adjusters and Tatumn Brake Steps

Further detail can be found at 

nationalscalecar.com

Ryan Mendell


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

mel perry
 

if you have a copy of the 5/86 MM, 
there's a short article re the rr design,
basically it was a replacement for the
bettendorf frame  whose center sill
was prone to cracking
;-)


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 8:43 AM radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 09:30 AM, Dick Harley wrote:
Terry Wegmann tooling for the RR Design
Dick, You've added a term I am not familiar with and haven't found on your great website (which I love).
"RR Design"  What underframe is this in reference to?
 Thx,
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Express Car Movements

Tony Thompson
 

Mr. Betz oversimplifies. The SP Overnight service was only on specific routes and remained intact, complete with specially painted box cars, for more than 25 years. Cars certainly did stray offline but were rarely used outside their intended routes, serving specific city pairs. So this was not just “expedited” package service but for specific city overnight delivery (mostly LCL), thus the name.
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 1, 2020, at 6:30 AM, Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:

Allen,

 And to add to this excellent summary ... there was a fad of painting up some 
regular box cars for "expedited" service.  The SP Overnight, B&O Sentinel,
GN Orange and Green, etc., etc., etc.
  All of the RRs actually started out using those particular cars in some
special service (usually on their own rails) ... and in about 2 years time
those cars became "any box car - any load" cars and the paint on them
was merely an advertisement.  And, frequently, they didn't actually
provide better service than any other even in their earliest years!
  Think "marketing that doesn't actually mean anything" and you have it.
A few RRs actually put considerable extra effort to provide the advertised
service ... but the realities were that it was too costly and there were so
many reasons why it wasn't really happening that they quickly 
abandoned the attempts. 
  It was quite common for one of these cars to find its way into a
regular freight - and when that happened the "special service" they
were meant to be providing was out the window.  Likewise, it was
likely that they would not be loaded with the 'right stuff' to justify
special handling and again the use of these "special" cars was
controverted.  Finally, as soon as one of those cars left the home
road's rails there was zero guarantee they'd get any kind of 
special handling.
  I am not talking about "express cars" - I'm talking about the 
regular box cars with special paint.  So if you are modeling the
correct year(s) and you want to use these cars - go for it - or
you can just use them in your regular service as "bright
shiny objects".  If you are into "era correctness" then you need
to consider the year that those cars were painted in that scheme
(even/especially if they aren't for "your" railroad).
                                                                                      - Jim 


Re: Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

mel perry
 

that would be an interesting story?
mel perry


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 11:44 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

Courtesy of Steve Crise, a Jack Whitmeyer photo from the Pacific Railroad Society Museum archives of a wrecked Santa Fe automobile boxcar at Colton, CA.

This was a Class Fe-23 boxcar (number series 6786-6999), one of 214 former Fe-S cars rebuilt by the Topeka Shops in 1941. The Fe-S automobile boxcars were built in 1928.

Pacific Railroad Society Museum website:

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/PRS_Museum.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Wrecked ATSF End Door Boxcar 6979 (1953)

Courtesy of Steve Crise, a Jack Whitmeyer photo from the Pacific Railroad Society Museum archives of a wrecked Santa Fe automobile boxcar at Colton, CA.

This was a Class Fe-23 boxcar (number series 6786-6999), one of 214 former Fe-S cars rebuilt by the Topeka Shops in 1941. The Fe-S automobile boxcars were built in 1928.

Pacific Railroad Society Museum website:

http://www.pacificrailroadsociety.org/PRS_Museum.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

9741 - 9760 of 186231