Date   

Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Doug,
 
Certainly a nice image, good sleuthing that you spotted the retouching of the photo.
 
I like the Decker tank car, reporting marks might be JEDX 23. According to my Dec 1930 ORER, Decker has the following series of tank cars: JEDX 20-37 and JEDX 40-92
 
I also like the view of the Decker reefer on the far end of the image, looks like DMRX 2873, Decker had the following series of reefers: DMRX 2520-2544 and DMRX 2800-2904
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

Ken,

 

Here's some info from the February 1908 ORER, page 27-37.

11. New cars shall be stenciled when built with actual light weight, date of weighing and capacity. Steel cars shall be re-weighed and re-stenciled within the first year thereafter, and wooden cars at the end of the first and second years. (I emboldened this text)

All cars which have received general repairs shall be weighed and stenciled, with the actual weight, immediately before being put pack into service.

Any car without stenciling shall be immediately weighed and stenciled. New weights of foreign cars shall be reported to car owners.

Here’s the ORER link:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=MyEqAQAAIAAJ

 

So this NYC&StL (Nickel Plate reporting marks for that era) boxcar

needed to be weighed 12 months after the last weigh date. A car with a NEW 5-1907 stencil would need to be reweighed by June 1908. It would need to be weighed again in another 12 months.

 

The photo date should fall into that May 1907 to June 1908 timespan.

 

Eric

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 10:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

 

I looked around, didn't seem to find anything...

We're trying to date a wreck image using freight cars in the pictures.
One (a WUF NYC&StL box) still shows "NEW 5/1907" By the CAPY/WT info (ORER info also suggests that as the build date).

Back in that era, was there a "every cars has to be reweighed every x [years/months]" requirement?
If so, what was the time period?

--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Jack Mullen
 

The same lettering scheme is seen on OMRX 5004, on p.128 of Hendrickson and Kaminski's billboard reefer book. That is a builders photo of a General American leased reefer, built October 1931. It shows full dimensional data in black, and the billboard lettering in white, with some adjustments of placement compared to the McVicar photo referenced in the OP.
The retouched McVicar photo is dated August 4 1931. I suggest it may have been prepared to illustrate the lettering Oscar Mayer wanted on the new cars it was leasing.
I agree that the McVicar photo is retouched. The streaked or patchy variations in tone on the car siding are evidence of the original lettering removed by retouching, I believe.

Jack Mullen


Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Lifting A Flat Car

A photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM61609

Perhaps a good way to avoid switching charges.

Seriously, does anyone know why this might have been done?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: NYC 19000 series caboose color

Rich C
 

Dave, The only one listed is TCP-221 
NYC Freight Car Red 1945-1960. I am not sure if this shade deviated much from your time period. I am sure there are others who will provide a more precise match.

Rich Christie

On Monday, August 3, 2020, 12:25:13 PM CDT, Dave Lawler <davelawler@...> wrote:


Good day all,
I'm preparing to paint an older brass HO model of a New York Central 19000 series caboose.
My modeling period is 1944.
I use Accupaint/TruColor almost exclusively and they have several freight car reds and browns in
their line but none specifically for NYC that I have found.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a TruColor paint that will work on the 19000 series cabooses?
Best regards,
Dave Lawler


NYC 19000 series caboose color

Dave Lawler
 

Good day all,
I'm preparing to paint an older brass HO model of a New York Central 19000 series caboose.
My modeling period is 1944.
I use Accupaint/TruColor almost exclusively and they have several freight car reds and browns in
their line but none specifically for NYC that I have found.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a TruColor paint that will work on the 19000 series cabooses?
Best regards,
Dave Lawler


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

As a footnote to my earlier post, Andy Carlson offered revised crossmembers for the Red Caboose underframe.  Terry Wegman also included these in his R-30-16 conversion kit 

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Date: 8/2/20 9:18 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Hopefully not to oversimplify but rather to establish a practical means of accurately modeling the PFE wood refer fleetcan we establish that :

1)  The Tichey underframe is correct for the WP. refers.

2)   Terry Wegmann's underframe is correct for all other PFE rood refers that did not have Bettendorf frsmes.

3)  Therefore is the Red Caboose  underframe corrrct for cars with the Bettendorf  undeframes.

Too simple?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

spsalso
 

I keep looking at that lettering job, and keep finding more flubs.  Ain't as easy as it looks.  Tried it once.

I LOVE Photoshop.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 07:47 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


Re: Express Car Movements

George Eichelberger
 

Stephen:

No one has asked to see the “missing” 14 pages but I can do that off-list if folks are interested?

Ike


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Douglas Harding
 

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

spsalso
 

The picture is awfully small.  

The car may have been temporarily lettered with whitewash, previous to its final lettering (with data).

The shadow of the latch bar, and other "flaws" could have been touched up on the negative (in black ink) or on a print.

It also looks like the print may have been dodged around the lettering.  May.

I also see some streaking downwards from the letters.  I doubt that feature would have been added if the lettering was done on film or paper.

The background "color" on the car looks a bit mottled.  Interesting.

It'd sure be nice to see that picture bigger!


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Peter Ness
 

Photoshop may be too harsh a term.  I suspect it is what I call an “advertising print”.  Somewhere in my collection I have a photo of a string of Boston & Maine boxcars lettered “B&M Baked Beans Boston, Mass.” in white lettering across the boxcars.  The lettering looks like white-out, but I am sure back in the 20’s-40’s there was some other lettering medium used.  The lettered photo would have been for use in a print ad or brochure to publicize either Oscar Mayer, or Oscar Mayers’ use of that manufacturers’ freight car, or perhaps even a new plant opening.

 

If it’s the “original” lettered print, the white lettering will be like white-out, and I suspect it would be cracked with age.  This is probably a duplicate print of the original hand-lettered photo. Having an original white-lettered photo is a little cool, having a duplicate maybe not so much – my opinion only.

 

Stay healthy,

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:40 AM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

Hi List Members,

 

I've been looking over this image entitled "Oscar Mayer Freight Car" taken in 1931

 

 

The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.

 

Is this a real car with real billboard lettering, or was this image altered? Opinions?

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

akerboomk
 

Also note the COMPLETE lack of other lettering:

-       Reporting marks

-       Weights

-       Dimensions

-       Etc.

 

“As is”, would it even be acceptable for interchange service?

 

Although it could have been a publicity stunt (parked by the factory or whatever)

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Douglas Harding
 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 05:40 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
I vote for a retouched photo. While the web image resolution isn't very high, we should be able to see the shadow of the door locking bar where it crosses the M, and I sure don't.

Dennis Storzek


Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I've been looking over this image entitled "Oscar Mayer Freight Car" taken in 1931
 
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
 
Is this a real car with real billboard lettering, or was this image altered? Opinions?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bill,

According to Richard Hendrickson's article in the April 1997 RMJ, the Tichy underframe is not 100% correct for converting the Red Caboose R-30-11/12 cars to R-30-13s. It is a somewhat beefier 40-ton underframe that is correct for the R-40-4 class, which is what Tichy's model is supposed to represent. He did allow it was close enough in HO to pass inspection. There was nothing in his article about brake system differences.

I rebuilt four Red Caboose R-39-11/12s with the Tichy underframe, including one WP/PFE (none of which should have the R-30-11/12 underframes) and the one R-40-6 egg car I could identify as being originally an R-30-13. I was satisfied with the results.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:19 AM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
Hopefully not to oversimplify but rather to establish a practical means of accurately modeling the PFE wood refer fleetcan we establish that :

1)  The Tichey underframe is correct for the WP. refers.

2)   Terry Wegmann's underframe is correct for all other PFE rood refers that did not have Bettendorf frsmes.

3)  Therefore is the Red Caboose  underframe corrrct for cars with the Bettendorf  undeframes.

Too simple?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hopefully not to oversimplify but rather to establish a practical means of accurately modeling the PFE wood refer fleetcan we establish that :

1)  The Tichey underframe is correct for the WP. refers.

2)   Terry Wegmann's underframe is correct for all other PFE rood refers that did not have Bettendorf frsmes.

3)  Therefore is the Red Caboose  underframe corrrct for cars with the Bettendorf  undeframes.

Too simple?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

akerboomk
 

I looked around, didn't seem to find anything...

We're trying to date a wreck image using freight cars in the pictures.
One (a WUF NYC&StL box) still shows "NEW 5/1907" By the CAPY/WT info (ORER info also suggests that as the build date).

Back in that era, was there a "every cars has to be reweighed every x [years/months]" requirement?
If so, what was the time period?

--
Ken Akerboom


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Tony Thompson
 

Tony, to that end, I've been meaning to ask. For the WP reefers, is there an AFE list or something that reflects which of the 2000 AC&F cars got Bettendorf and which got Built-up? The NPRHS has such a list for the NP Reefers, and it helped me get the right car numbers to match the correct versions.
 

      No, no documentation. I inferred from the dates that about 200 of the WP cars differed from all the others and had Bettendorf, but I have no proof.

Tony Thompson



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