Date   

Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

akerboomk
 

Also note the COMPLETE lack of other lettering:

-       Reporting marks

-       Weights

-       Dimensions

-       Etc.

 

“As is”, would it even be acceptable for interchange service?

 

Although it could have been a publicity stunt (parked by the factory or whatever)

 

Ken


--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Douglas Harding
 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 05:40 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
I vote for a retouched photo. While the web image resolution isn't very high, we should be able to see the shadow of the door locking bar where it crosses the M, and I sure don't.

Dennis Storzek


Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I've been looking over this image entitled "Oscar Mayer Freight Car" taken in 1931
 
 
The billboard lettering is very cool. However, as I spend more time looking at the image, I suspect this might be a case of 1931 'photoshop' alteration.
 
Is this a real car with real billboard lettering, or was this image altered? Opinions?
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bill,

According to Richard Hendrickson's article in the April 1997 RMJ, the Tichy underframe is not 100% correct for converting the Red Caboose R-30-11/12 cars to R-30-13s. It is a somewhat beefier 40-ton underframe that is correct for the R-40-4 class, which is what Tichy's model is supposed to represent. He did allow it was close enough in HO to pass inspection. There was nothing in his article about brake system differences.

I rebuilt four Red Caboose R-39-11/12s with the Tichy underframe, including one WP/PFE (none of which should have the R-30-11/12 underframes) and the one R-40-6 egg car I could identify as being originally an R-30-13. I was satisfied with the results.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 3:19 AM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
Hopefully not to oversimplify but rather to establish a practical means of accurately modeling the PFE wood refer fleetcan we establish that :

1)  The Tichey underframe is correct for the WP. refers.

2)   Terry Wegmann's underframe is correct for all other PFE rood refers that did not have Bettendorf frsmes.

3)  Therefore is the Red Caboose  underframe corrrct for cars with the Bettendorf  undeframes.

Too simple?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hopefully not to oversimplify but rather to establish a practical means of accurately modeling the PFE wood refer fleetcan we establish that :

1)  The Tichey underframe is correct for the WP. refers.

2)   Terry Wegmann's underframe is correct for all other PFE rood refers that did not have Bettendorf frsmes.

3)  Therefore is the Red Caboose  underframe corrrct for cars with the Bettendorf  undeframes.

Too simple?

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

akerboomk
 

I looked around, didn't seem to find anything...

We're trying to date a wreck image using freight cars in the pictures.
One (a WUF NYC&StL box) still shows "NEW 5/1907" By the CAPY/WT info (ORER info also suggests that as the build date).

Back in that era, was there a "every cars has to be reweighed every x [years/months]" requirement?
If so, what was the time period?

--
Ken Akerboom


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Tony Thompson
 

Tony, to that end, I've been meaning to ask. For the WP reefers, is there an AFE list or something that reflects which of the 2000 AC&F cars got Bettendorf and which got Built-up? The NPRHS has such a list for the NP Reefers, and it helped me get the right car numbers to match the correct versions.
 

      No, no documentation. I inferred from the dates that about 200 of the WP cars differed from all the others and had Bettendorf, but I have no proof.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Pierce Fordyce Oil Association Tank Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Single rivet courses.

"Elk And El Toro Lard"

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Dick,

Contact me at mallardlodge1000_AT_gmail.com . I might be able to help with a diagram, but I want to discuss this off-list.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 3:56 PM Dick Harley via groups.io <dick.harley4up=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

AFAIK, the current thinking is that all the WP reefers had Built-Up underframes.  I do not know of, and have not heard even rumors of, any photo of a WP reefer with a Bettendorf underframe.

My recollection is that some of the Car Cards for the WP reefers were marked R-30-12 (crossed out) which would indicate a Bettendorf underframe.  But my theory is that PFE just had a pile of those pre-marked Car Cards sitting around when the WP reefer Car Cards were initiated, and some of those cards were used for the WP cars.  That could easily be the source of the idea that some WP reefers had Bettendorf underframes.  The Car Card itself does not specify the type of underframe.  

It's been ages since I looked at WP reefer Car Cards at CSRM, and there aren't many.  One sure fire way to test that theory would be to find a photo of a car for which we have a Car Card indicating a Bettendorf underframe.

But again, I know of no photo of a WP reefer with a Bettendorf underframe.
If anyone has one, please share it.

The WP reefers were not included in the PFE Freight Car Diagrams (which list underframe), presumably because PFE did not own the cars.
https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/PFE-FRT-DATA/PFE-1951-Diagram-Book/
Don't know if anyone has a WP diagram for those cars that might shed some light.


Hope that helps,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Dick Harley
 


I should have added that since the WP reefers have a unique version of the Built-Up underframe for reefers, with their brake cylinder and brake levers placement, I think it is even more likely that the ACF-built WP reefers all had the same type underframe. 


Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Dick Harley
 


AFAIK, the current thinking is that all the WP reefers had Built-Up underframes.  I do not know of, and have not heard even rumors of, any photo of a WP reefer with a Bettendorf underframe.

My recollection is that some of the Car Cards for the WP reefers were marked R-30-12 (crossed out) which would indicate a Bettendorf underframe.  But my theory is that PFE just had a pile of those pre-marked Car Cards sitting around when the WP reefer Car Cards were initiated, and some of those cards were used for the WP cars.  That could easily be the source of the idea that some WP reefers had Bettendorf underframes.  The Car Card itself does not specify the type of underframe.  

It's been ages since I looked at WP reefer Car Cards at CSRM, and there aren't many.  One sure fire way to test that theory would be to find a photo of a car for which we have a Car Card indicating a Bettendorf underframe.

But again, I know of no photo of a WP reefer with a Bettendorf underframe.
If anyone has one, please share it.

The WP reefers were not included in the PFE Freight Car Diagrams (which list underframe), presumably because PFE did not own the cars.
https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/PFE-FRT-DATA/PFE-1951-Diagram-Book/
Don't know if anyone has a WP diagram for those cars that might shed some light.


Hope that helps,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

radiodial868
 

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 06:50 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
I agree with Dick. Bettendorf underframes were not replaced, just the supply of frames supplemented with RR Design.
Tony Thompson 
Tony, to that end, I've been meaning to ask. For the WP reefers, is there an AFE list or something that reflects which of the 2000 AC&F cars got Bettendorf and which got Built-up? The NPRHS has such a list for the NP Reefers, and it helped me get the right car numbers to match the correct versions.
 Thx,
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Express Car Movements

Steve SANDIFER
 

Very interesting document. Thank you for posting.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 9:38 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Express Car Movements

 

Here’s a scan of a Mopac Eagle Merchandise booklet with both local and interline O-D pairs.  Initially the Eagle Merchandise boxcars were stenciled for MP and T&P service only but as the trucking industry cut into the LCL business the MP relaxed the local service only requirements  

http://mopac.org/archives/freight-operations/44-eagle-merchandise-service-brochure-1957
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Sinclair 2 and 3 compartment tank cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Richard,

Sinclair did operate a few twins and triples, but photos are rare. The late Richard Hendrickson sent me a photocopy of his article on Sinclair tank cars from UNION PACIFIC MODELER (pages marked only "Volume Four") which shows two examples.

The article showed a view of SRDX 122, "one of 33 three-compartment cars in the 114-146 series . . . built by the Standard Tank Car Co. and probably acquired second-hand by Sinclair." The car is interesting not only because it is out of Sinclair's usual territory as a gasoline vendor (he speculated it was carrying specialty lube oils), but also thanks to the three ladders and platforms it lacks the usual huge "Sinclair" on the sides. The photo was taken on the Santa Fe in Southern California in the late 1940s and is credited to Robert Hale via the M.D. McCarter collection.

His article also included a 1940 view of subsidiary Union Petroleum's two-compartment car, UNPX 102, from series UNPX 100-116. This is a very plain 6K AC&F type 11. My 1958 ORER shows this car still in service under this mark and number. The photo was by George Sisk via the Charles E. Winters collection. I lettered a now very rare metal Athearn/Globe 8K car to match the photo, without realizing that it isn't an AC&F type 11 (Hey! it's a rather dark photocopy!). I'll keep the car as it is, especially since I don't have photos of any other twin that it could be used for, and I'm something of a Sinclair geek. Good politics, since my spouse is a Sinclair descendant.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



The same article also shows

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 8:59 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
Sinclair had quite a few 2 and 3 compartment tank cars, but I have never seen any photos of them. Does anyone on this list know of such?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Mopac LCL study from April 1960

Charlie Duckworth
 


Re: Express Car Movements

Charlie Duckworth
 

Here’s a scan of a Mopac Eagle Merchandise booklet with both local and interline O-D pairs.  Initially the Eagle Merchandise boxcars were stenciled for MP and T&P service only but as the trucking industry cut into the LCL business the MP relaxed the local service only requirements  

http://mopac.org/archives/freight-operations/44-eagle-merchandise-service-brochure-1957
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Express Car Movements

Jim Betz
 

Tony,

  I believe you have told me before that the SP Overnight was one of the
exceptions.  Perhaps I have gotten to that point in my life where I have
forgotten more than I know.  I am sorry to have offended your knowledge
of all things SP and will attempt to remember to not use SP Overnight in
the list of examples of special service box cars which didn't last long in
that service.  Mea culpa.  It was not intentional.
                                                                                             - Jim


Re: PFE wood ice reefer underframes

Tony Thompson
 

I agree with Dick. Bettendorf underframes were not replaced, just the supply of frames supplemented with RR Design.
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 1, 2020, at 2:33 PM, Dick Harley via groups.io <dick.harley4up@...> wrote:


Tony knows more than I do, but the RR Design did not "replace" the 30-ton Bettendorf underframes on PFE reefers.  They were a means to increase the number of cars PFE could get, without being limited by Bettendorf.  And old Bettendorf underframes were used in PFE rebuilds up through the R-30-21 class in the mid-1940s.

I use the terms "RR Design" and "Built-Up" interchangeably for those underframes.  Not sure I have a preference.  Many diagrams use both.
Here is a summary about them:
https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/PFETrainPhotos/PFE-Wood-Ice-Reefers/Bettendorf-vs-Built-Up/i-drRrvqG/A
I'll soon announce here more info on PFE wood reefer rebuilds on my SmugMug site.

If there was a significant problem with cracking of Bettendorf underframes on PFE reefers, that's news to me. 


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


ACL Box Car Question

Tim
 

Would any one know what would be in the yellow box in this picture.  Is it the returning instruction or is it the warring for no roof walk?

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acl/acl24270jpa.jpg

Thanks,

Tim Alund

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