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Re: Transformers and Runner to Skagit River Railway Powerhouse

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Richard,
 
Thanks for the great images.
 
The one depressed center flat car road number GE 40001, shown broadside on one of the photos, was a 90-ton car. I don't know the year it was built, but it is listed in my Dec 1930 ORER, so it dates back AT LEAST that far.
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2020 7:04 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Transformers and Runner to Skagit River Railway Powerhouse

Here is a sequence of views of transformers and runner being delivered on the Seattle City Light Skagit River Railway in early 1950's.

View 01 - Here we have Skagit River Railway center cab diesel No. 7 with covered hopper of cement for Ross Powerhouse construction, GN gondola, two General Electric drop center flats with transformers and Pennsylvania well car PRR 470031. Train is travelling from Rockport, WA which was the connection with the Great Northern to Newhalem which is the base of operations for the Skagit Power project.

View 02 - At Newhalem the cars were turned over to electric locomotives for the trip to Diablo Dam. Here is General Electric 40001 at Diablo and it will be transferred to the incline railway up Sourdough Mountain.

View 03 - All materials to build Diablo Dam as well as Ross Dam and powerhouse had to travel up this incline railway at Diablo. The platform travels a 68 degree slope and gains 313 feet in vertical distance and is raised and lowered by an electric winch. Only one accident occurred on the incline when a gear tooth broke causing the platform to crash to the bottom. At the time the platform had a hopper car of gravel and it flipped over killing a man who was hitching a ride. After this no one was allowed to ride the platform if a rail car was being transported at the same time.

View 04 - After passing the top of Diablo Dam an electric locomotive would spot the car to be loaded on a two car capacity barge for the trip up Diablo Lake. A winch lowered the car on to the barge and a tugboat moved the barge to Ross Dam which is upstream.

View 05 - Nice view of the barge being moved by the tugboat Ruby 2.

View 06 - Barge docked at the barge slip at Ross powerhouse.

View 07 - Finally the transformer at the Ross Powerhouse site. The winch can be seen and their was also a small gas locomotive for spotting cars.

Rich Wilkens

Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Douglas Harding
 

Claus thank you. You are correct that is a Decker tank car, used for various fats, like lard, and for blood and hog urine. The tank cars were gone by the early 30s, replaced by leased units.


You cite two groups of Decker reefers, there were others.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 1:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

Hi Doug,

 

Certainly a nice image, good sleuthing that you spotted the retouching of the photo.

 

I like the Decker tank car, reporting marks might be JEDX 23. According to my Dec 1930 ORER, Decker has the following series of tank cars: JEDX 20-37 and JEDX 40-92

 

I also like the view of the Decker reefer on the far end of the image, looks like DMRX 2873, Decker had the following series of reefers: DMRX 2520-2544 and DMRX 2800-2904

 

Thanks

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 
Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

spsalso
 

Sure is odd that the streaks caused by removing the original lettering for retouching just happen to coincide with the new lettering.

What are the odds?



Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Doug Auburg
 

The only crane operation I’ve seen (the crane, not the operation) was on the East Broad Top where they were switching between Std. Gauge and Narrow Gauge trucks.  Presumably not the case here.

 

My question is different:  How come the trucks remain attached to the car when freight trucks typically are held in place only by gravity?

 

Doug Auburg
Re: NYC 19000 series caboose color

Armand Premo
 

Testors is now owned by Rust - Oleum .Many colors have been dropped from the line.Armand Premo

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:01 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dave,

Having lived in New York State for many years, and having modeled the New York Central for a while, my recollection is that the NYC freight car color was toward the brown side of the spectrum.  I used the old Floquil "Boxcar Red" color on a brass caboose or two, and it looked pretty close to prototype.

I looked up the NYC Historical Society site, and there is a series of 4 articles on NYC cabooses here
https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pages-from-1975q1.pdf . 
They also have links to various paint manufacturers' websites.  I looked at the pages for Model Master Acrylics (as an example), and checked out their brown tones.  It seems that the color would be closest to #4675 Rust (flat) or #4707 Earth Red FS30117 (flat), or a blend of the two.  You might look here: https://www.testors.com/product-catalog/testors-brands/model-master/acrylic-paint/bottles . 

Todd Sullivan

Re: NYC 19000 series caboose color

Rich C
 

I agree Dave. I like the NYC. I plan on getting a 19000 caboose from either the society or AMB down the road. I have a Funaro USRA caboose which probably was painted the same as yours. I agree the shade should be more brownish. I too will see what others say.

Rich Christie

On Monday, August 3, 2020, 01:43:52 PM CDT, Dave Lawler <davelawler@...> wrote:


Thank you Rich. I forgot that I had noticed that color in their list but I was not sure, it appeared too red.

I  have always wondered if those NYC cars are really red or sort of a brown. I’m no a rivet counter but

I’d like to get the color as close to the prototype as possible.

Dave lawler

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

mel perry
 

marty;
good catch, they mght have been
chained to the bolster, but would need
a clearer picture
mel perry

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020, 12:57 PM gastro42000 <martincooper@...> wrote:
hi all:correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the trucks come off. Marty Cooper 
On 08/03/2020 3:37 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


And the two men 'standing underneath the car' are definitely further back than under the car.  Even in pre-OSHA days, no railroad employee would be negligent enough to stand under a car suspended from a crane.

Todd Sullivan
(who used to dodge transit cars being lifted and swung end-for-end at Alstom Hornell)

Re: NYC 19000 series caboose color

Todd Sullivan
 

Dave,

Having lived in New York State for many years, and having modeled the New York Central for a while, my recollection is that the NYC freight car color was toward the brown side of the spectrum.  I used the old Floquil "Boxcar Red" color on a brass caboose or two, and it looked pretty close to prototype.

I looked up the NYC Historical Society site, and there is a series of 4 articles on NYC cabooses here
https://nycshs.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pages-from-1975q1.pdf . 
They also have links to various paint manufacturers' websites.  I looked at the pages for Model Master Acrylics (as an example), and checked out their brown tones.  It seems that the color would be closest to #4675 Rust (flat) or #4707 Earth Red FS30117 (flat), or a blend of the two.  You might look here: https://www.testors.com/product-catalog/testors-brands/model-master/acrylic-paint/bottles . 

Todd Sullivan
Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

gastro42000 <martincooper@...>
 

hi all:correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t the trucks come off. Marty Cooper 

On 08/03/2020 3:37 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:


And the two men 'standing underneath the car' are definitely further back than under the car.  Even in pre-OSHA days, no railroad employee would be negligent enough to stand under a car suspended from a crane.

Todd Sullivan
(who used to dodge transit cars being lifted and swung end-for-end at Alstom Hornell)

Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Todd Sullivan
 

And the two men 'standing underneath the car' are definitely further back than under the car.  Even in pre-OSHA days, no railroad employee would be negligent enough to stand under a car suspended from a crane.

Todd Sullivan
(who used to dodge transit cars being lifted and swung end-for-end at Alstom Hornell)
Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 10:48 AM, Bob Chaparro wrote:
Seriously, does anyone know why this might have been done?
The crane looks new; the track it runs on certainly looks like it was just installed. The flatcar appears to be loaded with something, maybe flat steel plate. I'd hazard a guess that this is the test lift for certification of the crane,

Dennis Storzek
Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Tony Thompson
 

     Speaking of modified builder photos -- I always enjoyed photos from the latter years at Pacific Car & Foundry, when builder photos were taken in a dirt-surfaced yard, then a negative of a patch of lawn was stripped into the foreground, right up to the rail the car was on.

Tony Thompson
Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Schuyler Larrabee
 

My first thought was the modeler had glued the load on . . .  😊

 

But I agree, it’s a promotional image.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 2:47 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

 

Bob,

 

I can't figure why in this situation it would be necessary either, except to prove it could be done. I think it is a staged publicity photo for P&H. Note that the flatcar's trucks are heavily retouched, and it appears the road name has been brushed out.

 

Yours Aye,

 

 

Garth Groff  🦆

 

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:48 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Lifting A Flat Car

A photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM61609

Perhaps a good way to avoid switching charges.

Seriously, does anyone know why this might have been done?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Charlie Vlk
 

Jack and All-

 

Some retouched photos from “back in the day” are obvious but some were so skillfully done they are hard to detect.


I have a couple that I actually thought about destroying because if they got out they might be used by some importer to make a production plastic model from:

 

One of them is a CB&Q NE-12 (streamlined cupola waycar, the prototype that Bachmann has finally released in slightly improved form in full Burlington lettering and paint) that has bigger “picture windows” airbrushed in.

The other was a proposed slogan to supplement the “Everywhere West / Way of the Zephyrs” script one.

 

Retouched art was widely used for advertising purposes.  And, of course, was used in Builder’s Record Photos to remove background and in some cases foreground “clutter” to more clearly document the subject freight car.

 

Using retouching for proposed paint schemes is probably not that unusual as they were probably a better vehicle for review by non-engineering types than blueprints, especially since very few presentation-level drawings (similar to what we like to see in Model Railroad magazines or books) of cars were prepared by carbuilders or railroads.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

 

I agree that the McVicar photo is retouched. The streaked or patchy variations in tone on the car siding are evidence of the original lettering removed by retouching, I believe.

 
Re: Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Bob,

I can't figure why in this situation it would be necessary either, except to prove it could be done. I think it is a staged publicity photo for P&H. Note that the flatcar's trucks are heavily retouched, and it appears the road name has been brushed out.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 1:48 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Lifting A Flat Car

A photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM61609

Perhaps a good way to avoid switching charges.

Seriously, does anyone know why this might have been done?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
Re: NYC 19000 series caboose color

Dave Lawler
 

Thank you Rich. I forgot that I had noticed that color in their list but I was not sure, it appeared too red.

I  have always wondered if those NYC cars are really red or sort of a brown. I’m no a rivet counter but

I’d like to get the color as close to the prototype as possible.

Dave lawler

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 
Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi Doug,
 
Certainly a nice image, good sleuthing that you spotted the retouching of the photo.
 
I like the Decker tank car, reporting marks might be JEDX 23. According to my Dec 1930 ORER, Decker has the following series of tank cars: JEDX 20-37 and JEDX 40-92
 
I also like the view of the Decker reefer on the far end of the image, looks like DMRX 2873, Decker had the following series of reefers: DMRX 2520-2544 and DMRX 2800-2904
 
Thanks
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2020 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

To cite an example of a retouched photo. Attached is a photo scanned from a company brochure published by the Decker & Sons Meat Company, circa 1930. The photo shows the loading area, but what stands out is the large Decker lettering on the side of the reefer. However if you look close, you will see reporting marks on the end of the car indicating it is a HyGrade reefer, a Mather reefer. Someone doctored the photo for the brochure, painting out the HyGrade lettering and inking in the large Decker lettering. For what its worth I have yet to see a photo of actual Decker reefer with that kind of lettering.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 8:08 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

 

No dimensional data, no reporting marks, no other required lettering for interchange service. Very likely a photo or negative that had lettering applied. Was a common technique for advertising photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 
Re: How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

Eric Hansmann
 

Ken,

 

Here's some info from the February 1908 ORER, page 27-37.

11. New cars shall be stenciled when built with actual light weight, date of weighing and capacity. Steel cars shall be re-weighed and re-stenciled within the first year thereafter, and wooden cars at the end of the first and second years. (I emboldened this text)

All cars which have received general repairs shall be weighed and stenciled, with the actual weight, immediately before being put pack into service.

Any car without stenciling shall be immediately weighed and stenciled. New weights of foreign cars shall be reported to car owners.

Here’s the ORER link:
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=MyEqAQAAIAAJ

 

So this NYC&StL (Nickel Plate reporting marks for that era) boxcar

needed to be weighed 12 months after the last weigh date. A car with a NEW 5-1907 stencil would need to be reweighed by June 1908. It would need to be weighed again in another 12 months.

 

The photo date should fall into that May 1907 to June 1908 timespan.

 

Eric

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 10:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] How often were cars reweighed in 1910 time frame?

 

I looked around, didn't seem to find anything...

We're trying to date a wreck image using freight cars in the pictures.
One (a WUF NYC&StL box) still shows "NEW 5/1907" By the CAPY/WT info (ORER info also suggests that as the build date).

Back in that era, was there a "every cars has to be reweighed every x [years/months]" requirement?
If so, what was the time period?

--
Ken Akerboom

Re: Oscar Mayer Freight Car taken in 1931

Jack Mullen
 

The same lettering scheme is seen on OMRX 5004, on p.128 of Hendrickson and Kaminski's billboard reefer book. That is a builders photo of a General American leased reefer, built October 1931. It shows full dimensional data in black, and the billboard lettering in white, with some adjustments of placement compared to the McVicar photo referenced in the OP.
The retouched McVicar photo is dated August 4 1931. I suggest it may have been prepared to illustrate the lettering Oscar Mayer wanted on the new cars it was leasing.
I agree that the McVicar photo is retouched. The streaked or patchy variations in tone on the car siding are evidence of the original lettering removed by retouching, I believe.

Jack Mullen
Photo: Lifting A Flat Car (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Lifting A Flat Car

A photo from the Wisconsin Historical Society:

https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Image/IM61609

Perhaps a good way to avoid switching charges.

Seriously, does anyone know why this might have been done?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA
18201 - 18220 of 194744