Date   

Re: Brass tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

Upps, sorry, this is the GATC:
 
https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/109632/HO-Brass-Model-OMI-3230-GATC-10-000-Gallon-Tank-Car-Insulated-Double-Dome-Built-1930-Unpainted-1991-Run-Ajin
 
 
Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:37 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Well, yes, since both links take me to the same car . . .  😊

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:28 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:

 

 

Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:

 

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 

 


Re: Brass tank car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Actually, the car on the Trainz webpage is the car I was asking about.  The one that sold for $200.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:28 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:

 

 

Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:

 

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 


Re: Brass tank car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, yes, since both links take me to the same car . . .  😊

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:28 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:

 

 

Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:

 

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 


Re: What’s on my work bench

Paul Doggett
 

Schuyler

Thank you , I forgot to add the decals are Microscale and the handrails are brass with short locomotive turned brass handrail knobs.
Paul Doggett

On 17 Aug 2020, at 15:12, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Paul,

Your usual creative and excellent modeling, photographed on your very well-modeled layout. Thanks for sharing.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:01 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What’s on my work bench

Not a freight car but a kit bashed tender for any of the following SP locos 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0 or 4-8-0. Started with a Bachmann tender frame which matched the SP 0-8-0 tender that I have Brian Moore donated the tank which I cut down the body on and filled all the holes with 0.025” styrene. The oil tank was made with 0.020” styrene, the water filler was made with a piece of 0.040” styrene. The water and oil tanks had Archer rivets fitted unfortunately I didn’t take a photo of them, it’s not perfect but I am pleased with it. I hope this is ok for here. Remove if not permitted.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿







Re: Brass tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

Do you mean the one we were originally discussing? I can see the brake wheel right at the first photo, right side:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-3131-HO-BRASS-ACF-8-000-Gal-Double-Dome-Tank-Car-Unpainted-EX-Box/392901430442?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Or do you speak of the GATC car I brought into discussion because this is (afaik!) the "NIPSCO" car (if I am wrong with this I APOLOGIZE!)? Browse the photos and there too you will see the brake wheel:
 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Overland-3131-HO-BRASS-ACF-8-000-Gal-Double-Dome-Tank-Car-Unpainted-EX-Box/392901430442?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 16:02 Uhr
Von: "Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io" <schuyler.larrabee@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

 


Re: What's on my workbench

James Brewer
 

Mont,

I've attached the N&W diagrams for these cars which spell out the "special equipment" for each.  N&W loved to rebuild cars (mainly for accounting/tax purposes) so this group had a number of "plain" cars for general loading and use.  As you can see, several groups of the B1a car had special equipment; note for the B1b the one group was equipped with Automobile Transmission racks.

Jim Brewer


Re: What’s on my work bench

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Paul,

Your usual creative and excellent modeling, photographed on your very well-modeled layout. Thanks for sharing.

Schuyler

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:01 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What’s on my work bench

Not a freight car but a kit bashed tender for any of the following SP locos 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0 or 4-8-0. Started with a Bachmann tender frame which matched the SP 0-8-0 tender that I have Brian Moore donated the tank which I cut down the body on and filled all the holes with 0.025” styrene. The oil tank was made with 0.020” styrene, the water filler was made with a piece of 0.040” styrene. The water and oil tanks had Archer rivets fitted unfortunately I didn’t take a photo of them, it’s not perfect but I am pleased with it. I hope this is ok for here. Remove if not permitted.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Brass tank car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I agree with you, Jim, but take note that this car, at $200, is marked SOLD.  No need for Trainz to reduce the price.

 

As to NIPSCO using the car, there’s nothing to say that they used the two tanks for different liquids; they may not have done so.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Jon,

                   " $200 WOW! "

  Don't be too surprised about eBay prices for stuff like this unpainted
brass tank car from Overland being sold by Trainz.  Many sellers put a
price on something simply by guessing at its value - perhaps even
most.  Or they simply trust something like "The Brass Book" which has
often proven to have very little relationship to the real world pricing.
  Trainz, at least, is one of the sellers that gets it about "if it doesn't
sell at $___ then reduce the price" ... usually about 10% per reduction. 
And they seem to find a buyer with at most a 20-30% reduction.
  The whole brass market is skewed due to the "collectors" who buy
and sell brass based upon its collectible value (it's "rare").  That,
combined with the reductions in run sizes ...

  But I digress from the stated purpose of this list.  This is a nice
model of what appears to be a relatively rare prototype.  I doubt
that it is very far off the mark in terms of "accuracy" but is probably
not a model that, if lettered correctly, would be likely to show up on
very many of the prototypically based layouts.  But you can letter
however you want and use it however you want ("Rule #1").

  I find the fact that it is a two-dome that was owned by Nipsco a
bit hard to explain.  I'm trying to explain to myself the reason for
any power plant to own a two-dome car.  What would a power
plant be needing that justifies a two-dome car (relatively small
quantities of two different non-standard liquids)?  It has me
scratching my head to explain it.
                                                                                     - Jim


Re: Brass tank car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Where is the brake wheel on this model?

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 9:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Jon,

 

are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?

When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


What’s on my work bench

Paul Doggett
 

Not a freight car but a kit bashed tender for any of the following SP locos 2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0 or 4-8-0. Started with a Bachmann tender frame which matched the SP 0-8-0 tender that I have Brian Moore donated the tank which I cut down the body on and filled all the holes with 0.025” styrene. The oil tank was made with 0.020” styrene, the water filler was made with a piece of 0.040” styrene. The water and oil tanks had Archer rivets fitted unfortunately I didn’t take a photo of them, it’s not perfect but I am pleased with it. I hope this is ok for here. Remove if not permitted.

Paul Doggett England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿


Re: Brass tank car

Jim Betz
 

Jon,

                   " $200 WOW! "

  Don't be too surprised about eBay prices for stuff like this unpainted
brass tank car from Overland being sold by Trainz.  Many sellers put a
price on something simply by guessing at its value - perhaps even
most.  Or they simply trust something like "The Brass Book" which has
often proven to have very little relationship to the real world pricing.
  Trainz, at least, is one of the sellers that gets it about "if it doesn't
sell at $___ then reduce the price" ... usually about 10% per reduction. 
And they seem to find a buyer with at most a 20-30% reduction.
  The whole brass market is skewed due to the "collectors" who buy
and sell brass based upon its collectible value (it's "rare").  That,
combined with the reductions in run sizes ...

  But I digress from the stated purpose of this list.  This is a nice
model of what appears to be a relatively rare prototype.  I doubt
that it is very far off the mark in terms of "accuracy" but is probably
not a model that, if lettered correctly, would be likely to show up on
very many of the prototypically based layouts.  But you can letter
however you want and use it however you want ("Rule #1").

  I find the fact that it is a two-dome that was owned by Nipsco a
bit hard to explain.  I'm trying to explain to myself the reason for
any power plant to own a two-dome car.  What would a power
plant be needing that justifies a two-dome car (relatively small
quantities of two different non-standard liquids)?  It has me
scratching my head to explain it.
                                                                                     - Jim


Re: What's on my workbench

Mont Switzer
 

Chad,

 

Sort of interested in the N&W cars, but don't see them in photos on the Monon.  Any idea what they were used for?

 

Mont


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Chad Boas via groups.io [chadboas@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2020 3:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] What's on my workbench

Here is a sneak peak at the new kits I will have available soon.
N&W B1a and B1b
The kit will have sides, ends, roof, floor and decals.
Chad Boas

Attachments:


Re: Brass tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Jon,
 
are the ladders on your model centered or off- center/ below one of the domes?
When I searched for this model with the appropriate OMI catalog # I always got pics with two ladders on one side. So I assumed the entire run has been build that way.
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 16. August 2020 um 20:20 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car
On 8/16/2020 11:02 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:
I suppose it's this one?:

    Appears to be.  Notice that yours has 2 ladders on one side only.  Mine has only one ladder on both sides.  I have no box!  I bought second hand so have no idea what the original owner did to it.  $200 WOW!

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


B&O cabooses

Eric Hansmann
 

Ed Bommer shares his work on two B&O O scale K-1 class cabooses in the latest DesignBuildOp blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2020/08/17/bo-k-class-bobber-caboose/


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Brass tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Bruce,

many thanks for this explanation! Actually it was another member who said to me that the size of this model is too large and I believe him as he knows much more about freight cars than I, but your explanation definitely makes sense, too. Would be nice when that model is more correct in scale than I thought.

Thanks again and greetings

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 00:51 Uhr
Von: "Bruce Smith" <@smithbf>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 01:02 PM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Johannes,

Do not forget that on a two dome tank car, there are two compartments. The center end of each tank has a hemispherical end riveted into the car, giving the additional rivet lines on the car side. Thus, there is a space between the two tanks that makes the tank appear larger than its actual capacity. While I don't have the model in question to measure, I suspect that the size of the tank on the model is actually accurate.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

The model is supposed to be an 8000 gal car, but the tank unfortunately is
somewhat larger, I would guess about 9000 when I compare with a true 8000 and
a 10000 gal car.



Re: Brass tank car

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Craig,
 
to make all the confusion complete, I am sure you are speaking of this car:
 
https://brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/109632/HO-Brass-Model-OMI-3230-GATC-10-000-Gallon-Tank-Car-Insulated-Double-Dome-Built-1930-Unpainted-1991-Run-Ajin
 
I remember that discussion, too.
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 07:35 Uhr
Von: "Craig Wilson" <agecompanyphotog@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car
I recall a discussion of this car a while ago.  It does have a prototype albeit not a common one.  Arnt Gerritsen (draftsman and researcher for Overland Models) found it at the NIPSCO power plant in Michigan City Indiana.  At the time it was used for storage and was not in interchange service.  I don't believe any photos of a similar car have ever surfaced.  Arnt said it had a private reporting mark for NIPSCO but no evidence of any previous mark (GATX, ACFX, etc).  I painted one of these models for a friend years ago and lacking any other information we went though the equipment register listing for GATX and picked a number from an "empty" series.  You could do the same and just hide it when the prototype police show up at the door.
 
Craig Wilson


Re: Brass tank car

al_brown03
 

Is that an AC&F Type 27, or is it older? I'm not the best tank-car spotter.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Brass tank car

Craig Wilson
 

I recall a discussion of this car a while ago.  It does have a prototype albeit not a common one.  Arnt Gerritsen (draftsman and researcher for Overland Models) found it at the NIPSCO power plant in Michigan City Indiana.  At the time it was used for storage and was not in interchange service.  I don't believe any photos of a similar car have ever surfaced.  Arnt said it had a private reporting mark for NIPSCO but no evidence of any previous mark (GATX, ACFX, etc).  I painted one of these models for a friend years ago and lacking any other information we went though the equipment register listing for GATX and picked a number from an "empty" series.  You could do the same and just hide it when the prototype police show up at the door.

Craig Wilson


Re: Brass tank car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Good point John.  I also have the two dohme model which was produced at the same time. I also have some reservations about the sizing of that one.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
Date: 8/16/20 5:12 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

On 8/16/2020 6:46 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The top photo is Tangent and Overland.

    Excellent photo however the original discussion was about a brass 2 dome tank car.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Brass tank car

Jon Miller
 

On 8/16/2020 6:46 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The top photo is Tangent and Overland.

    Excellent photo however the original discussion was about a brass 2 dome tank car.

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS