Date   

Re: Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Pierre Oliver
 

With the right cheese... :-)

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 8/18/20 11:17 a.m., Bill J. via groups.io wrote:

I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

Bill Jolitz


Re: Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Bill J.
 

I must wonder how that wine tasted after bouncing around in a hot tank car for two weeks.

Bill Jolitz


Re: Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob and Friends,

I saved this photo to my desktop, and found that it is actually incredibly large, though you can't make it larger on the web page. 

The first tank car reads, "Bradford Winery, Lodi California; Choice California Wines. It is GATX 1363. It appears to have a reweigh date of "X 35" or "X 36", though even blown up the date is too fuzzy to read clearly. I am leaning toward 1936. The remaining two cars have no lettering showing because of the banner.

In the second photo, I was able to notice two more triples, one with Bradford lettering similar to the car behind #40's tender. The other appears to be quite stubby, maybe a 6K gallon car, with three domes the same size, probably over a riveted and un-jacketed tank. Neat little car. The two silver tanks Mel Perry asked about are GATX cars, possibly in the 5XXX-series. There are some vague differences in the underframes and the domes are of different sizes. They have no special lettering like the two Bradford cars.

The WP caboose appears to be 723, one of 8 cars built by WP in 1926 at their Jeffrey Shops in Sacramento to a Haskell & Barker design also used by the D&RGW and MP. (These were all Gould-owned railroads at one time and purchased similar equipment, but unlike the Harriman roads there was no such thing as a "Gould Standard", so please don't call them that). It has truss rods, but also a more modern steel underframe or center sill than the original all-wood H&B cars. According to P. Allen Copland's WP caboose list, this car was retired in 1948.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:23 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob,

Yes, the dating of the photo is incorrect. According to Guy Dunscomb's WESTERN PACIFIC STEAM LOCOMOTIVES, PASSENGER TRAIN AND CARS, the enameled Feather River Route herald did not appear until 1929. Low mounted Pyle headlights date from 1931. There were subtle changes to the herald over the years which might better pin the date, but the herald is too small to spot these differences (rounded vs. square corners for example).

Given that Prohibition ended on 5 December 1933, and the banner implies this is not the first shipment of wine to the East Coast, sometime 1934 must be our bottom date. The presence of dedicated wine tank cars also suggests that some time has passed since repeal. 

I sure wish the image was large enough to read what is on the triple-compartment car behind the locomotive. I suppose the original photo is available for examination at the CSRM (subject to covid restrictions), but I'm on the wrong coast to drop in and ask to see it. (Sigh!) Access to my museums featuring information on my favorite railroads is one of the few things I miss about not living in California anymore. Now back to sipping mint julips on the veranda at my genteel estate.



Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 7:23 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: SEEKINGIF SUNSHINE INSTRUCTIONS

Jesus Pe�a
 

Bill,

Are you specifically looking for 30.12 sheet. I have Sunshine kits of the AAR 70 ton flat car of different road names. Would those sheets be helpful?

Jesus Peña 
Concord, California 




On Monday, August 17, 2020, 5:41 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:



I recently purchased a Sunshine Santa Fe Ft-V flat car on Ebay.  I was very happy to get the kit.This morning I was inspecting the kit (30.12)and found that the prototype data sheet was correct but the instructions were for a 40 FT flat car not Santa Fe.
The ever gracious Jim Hayes sent me his file. This included the Prototype Data Sheet and the order sheet.  The instructions were for the Santa Fe Ft-
I andJ kit.

Talked to Jim and now we are both looking for the Ft-V instructions

Appreciate any help:

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



--
Jesus Peña
Concord,California


SEEKINGIF SUNSHINE INSTRUCTIONS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 



I recently purchased a Sunshine Santa Fe Ft-V flat car on Ebay.  I was very happy to get the kit.This morning I was inspecting the kit (30.12)and found that the prototype data sheet was correct but the instructions were for a 40 FT flat car not Santa Fe.
The ever gracious Jim Hayes sent me his file. This included the Prototype Data Sheet and the order sheet.  The instructions were for the Santa Fe Ft-
I andJ kit.

Talked to Jim and now we are both looking for the Ft-V instructions

Appreciate any help:

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



Re: Photo: WFEX 67395 With Forward Facing Rocky (Circa 1938)

Bill Welch
 

WFEX 67395 is built to what I call the 1926 FGE design. It is taller than their 1921 design—first built for Western Fruit in 1923—and was originally built with a double board roof but has been rebuilt with a Hutchins roof. The sill is an 8-inch steel channel. Models of this car were offered for both FGE and WFE by Sunshine.

Bill Welch


Re: Brass tank car

Steve SANDIFER
 

I purchased one of the 2 dome insulated, I think for $60 on ebay. Richard H sent me the attached photo as the possible car. Note the ladder.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 6:16 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

 

Hello Craig,

 

to make all the confusion complete, I am sure you are speaking of this car:

 

 

I remember that discussion, too.

 

Regards

 

Johannes

Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953

 

Gesendet: Montag, 17. August 2020 um 07:35 Uhr
Von: "Craig Wilson" <agecompanyphotog@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

I recall a discussion of this car a while ago.  It does have a prototype albeit not a common one.  Arnt Gerritsen (draftsman and researcher for Overland Models) found it at the NIPSCO power plant in Michigan City Indiana.  At the time it was used for storage and was not in interchange service.  I don't believe any photos of a similar car have ever surfaced.  Arnt said it had a private reporting mark for NIPSCO but no evidence of any previous mark (GATX, ACFX, etc).  I painted one of these models for a friend years ago and lacking any other information we went though the equipment register listing for GATX and picked a number from an "empty" series.  You could do the same and just hide it when the prototype police show up at the door.

 

Craig Wilson


Re: What's on my workbench

Jim Hayes
 

I'm just like you Tom. I'll lose something, look all over for it, then several days later "there it is" right in front of me.

Jim


Photo: WFEX 67395 With Forward Facing Rocky (Circa 1938)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: WFEX 67395 With Forward Facing Rocky (Circa 1938)

A photo from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112263

Especially for the Great Northern fans.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Train Load Of Wine (Undated)

Photos from the California Revealed website:

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112193

https://californiarevealed.org/islandora/object/cavpp%3A112194

Probably taken before or after Prohibition (January 1920 to December 1933), I would think.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: What’s on my work bench

Paul Doggett
 

Tony

Thank You the Archer rivets were a great boost saved hours with my hand riveting tool.

Paul Doggett

On 17 Aug 2020, at 23:19, Tony Thompson <tony@signaturepress.com> wrote:

 Good-looking tender project, Paul, and as you stated, used behind a wide variety of small SP power, usually when in switching assignments.
Yet another example of a job that would be pretty daunting without Archer rivets.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com






Re: What’s on my work bench

Tony Thompson
 

Good-looking tender project, Paul, and as you stated, used behind a wide variety of small SP power, usually when in switching assignments.
Yet another example of a job that would be pretty daunting without Archer rivets.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


Re: What's on my workbench

Tom Madden
 

On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 11:14 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
i lost my HO scale ruler, I've had it since the early 1960's. Did any of you guys borrow it????
Fenton
I lose lots of tools, usually when they're in plain sight. They're right where they should be on my workbench, I just don't see them.

Tom Madden
 


Re: What's on my workbench

O Fenton Wells
 

Nelson, Impressive, you are much better organized and neater than I am.
I'm 77 and muddling through
  Fenton  


On Mon, Aug 17, 2020 at 2:21 PM Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

One small correction, Paul, I said 48 stock car sides, so that’s only 24 cars. Actually, my workbench is small like yours because it shares duty as my ham radio bench and computer station I get around that limitation by using lots of cutting mats, breadboards, or simply hanging file folders holding the instructions and prototype photos to move parts and partial builds on and off of the workbench. It’s very much a production line process. with only the active board on the bench at one time. Before I had to sacrifice space for my triple deck layout, I had a 6 ft. by 18 in. workbench, and that’s where I build the stock cars. After that, I cut down the bench and put it in a closet to save space for the layout. Don’t used age as an excuse. I started building the layout at age 70, and I’m 77 now. All of the other batch builds except the stock cars were done in the closet. I attached photos of the closet and some of the ‘parts holders’.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:00 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What's on my workbench

 

Nelson 

 

I see your point one of my problems is I only have a small modelling area about 24x18 inches. Also I do like to build a car then build a different car as my layout out is pretty well complete so I really cannot divert to doing work on that, as for building 48 stock car I take my crash helmet off to you.

At 72 I guess I am stuck in my ways having built in 4mm/ft and done a lot of scratch building in 0 scale 7mm/ft including 1890-1910 British goods wagons (not freight cars) for the industrial museum at Derby. 

I also scratch built locos, passenger coaches and wagons for the 0 gauge layout I had at the time.

 

Regards Paul

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: What's on my workbench

Paul Doggett
 

Nelson 

That’s a great set up you have, I do my modelling so I am handy from my wife who does have health problems. Even 24 stock cars is pretty good going. Oh age is not an excuse I still have fifty kits to build and at least 10 locos to paint plus I do like to run the layout now and again.
Paul 


On 17 Aug 2020, at 19:21, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:



One small correction, Paul, I said 48 stock car sides, so that’s only 24 cars. Actually, my workbench is small like yours because it shares duty as my ham radio bench and computer station I get around that limitation by using lots of cutting mats, breadboards, or simply hanging file folders holding the instructions and prototype photos to move parts and partial builds on and off of the workbench. It’s very much a production line process. with only the active board on the bench at one time. Before I had to sacrifice space for my triple deck layout, I had a 6 ft. by 18 in. workbench, and that’s where I build the stock cars. After that, I cut down the bench and put it in a closet to save space for the layout. Don’t used age as an excuse. I started building the layout at age 70, and I’m 77 now. All of the other batch builds except the stock cars were done in the closet. I attached photos of the closet and some of the ‘parts holders’.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:00 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What's on my workbench

 

Nelson 

 

I see your point one of my problems is I only have a small modelling area about 24x18 inches. Also I do like to build a car then build a different car as my layout out is pretty well complete so I really cannot divert to doing work on that, as for building 48 stock car I take my crash helmet off to you.

At 72 I guess I am stuck in my ways having built in 4mm/ft and done a lot of scratch building in 0 scale 7mm/ft including 1890-1910 British goods wagons (not freight cars) for the industrial museum at Derby. 

I also scratch built locos, passenger coaches and wagons for the 0 gauge layout I had at the time.

 

Regards Paul

 

Attachments:


Re: Brass tank car

Mont Switzer
 

Bruce,

 

As far as I know the NIPSCO (Northern Indiana Public Service Commission) car was used for on site storage only. 

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Bruce Smith [smithbf@...]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 1:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass tank car

Jim,

Don't assume that the compartments are either filled at the same time or with dissimilar materials. 

For example, the PRR used its TM8s (single dome tank car) to ferry used crankcase oil to its reclamation plant in East Altoona from engine houses around the system and recycled oil back to the engine houses. Tired of cleaning the cars before each trip with recycled oil, they purchases 2nd hand 3 dome cars. The center compartment was used for dirty lube oil and the end compartments were used for clean oil. So, it all depended on which direction the car was moving as to which compartments were in use. 

The GATC/NIPSCO car is an insulated car, so why two compartments? The following are pure speculation, but... 
  • maybe NIPSCO bought it because it was cheap and they neither needed it to be insulated or have 2 compartments. 
  • maybe NIPSCO also had a clean/dirty transfer scheme
  • maybe, when the car was built, it was built for tar/asphalt service for a customer who needed to divide the load in order to better handle delivery. That is, both compartments handled the same commodity, but it was better to deliver a complete tank (4K gal) to one customer, and then a second complete tank (4K gal) to another, instead of making the second delivery from half of an 8K gal tank?
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


<snip>  I find the fact that it is a two-dome that was owned by Nipsco a
bit hard to explain.  I'm trying to explain to myself the reason for
any power plant to own a two-dome car.  What would a power
plant be needing that justifies a two-dome car (relatively small
quantities of two different non-standard liquids)?  It has me
scratching my head to explain it.
                                                                                     - Jim


Re: What's on my workbench

Nelson Moyer
 

One small correction, Paul, I said 48 stock car sides, so that’s only 24 cars. Actually, my workbench is small like yours because it shares duty as my ham radio bench and computer station I get around that limitation by using lots of cutting mats, breadboards, or simply hanging file folders holding the instructions and prototype photos to move parts and partial builds on and off of the workbench. It’s very much a production line process. with only the active board on the bench at one time. Before I had to sacrifice space for my triple deck layout, I had a 6 ft. by 18 in. workbench, and that’s where I build the stock cars. After that, I cut down the bench and put it in a closet to save space for the layout. Don’t used age as an excuse. I started building the layout at age 70, and I’m 77 now. All of the other batch builds except the stock cars were done in the closet. I attached photos of the closet and some of the ‘parts holders’.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Paul Doggett via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 12:00 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What's on my workbench

 

Nelson 

 

I see your point one of my problems is I only have a small modelling area about 24x18 inches. Also I do like to build a car then build a different car as my layout out is pretty well complete so I really cannot divert to doing work on that, as for building 48 stock car I take my crash helmet off to you.

At 72 I guess I am stuck in my ways having built in 4mm/ft and done a lot of scratch building in 0 scale 7mm/ft including 1890-1910 British goods wagons (not freight cars) for the industrial museum at Derby. 

I also scratch built locos, passenger coaches and wagons for the 0 gauge layout I had at the time.

 

Regards Paul

 


Re: What's on my workbench

Mont Switzer
 

Thanks Jim, will try to figure out a routing if possible, otherwise I'm sure the hauled some VA furniture up our way.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of James Brewer [jim.brewer.3611@...]
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 10:26 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What's on my workbench

Mont,

I've attached the N&W diagrams for these cars which spell out the "special equipment" for each.  N&W loved to rebuild cars (mainly for accounting/tax purposes) so this group had a number of "plain" cars for general loading and use.  As you can see, several groups of the B1a car had special equipment; note for the B1b the one group was equipped with Automobile Transmission racks.

Jim Brewer

Attachments:


Re: What’s on my work bench

Bruce Griffin
 


--
 

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 

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