Date   

Re: Ship anchors?

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Aug 21, 2020, at 08:16, Edward <edb8381@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking. The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it.
[alert: era-dependencies at work]

There were (and in a few cases still are preserved) sailing ships built in the late 19th century and even a few steam axiliaries built in the early 20th which carried the sliding stock anchors. Balclutha, 1886, Connell & Sons, Glagsgow (one of the first 20 or so steel-hulled sailing ships[0]) is currently resident at the only floating national park in the US and its territories[1]. The more modern naval anchor doesn't cat up like the earlier design, so even the early steam auxiliaries with the more traditional hull shape carried the earlier design of anchor.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, docent emeritus, footnote [1]

[0] for non-military use, steam was for high-priority cargoes, like people and mail - vide the Pacific Mail Steamship company. For the lower-priority cargo, sail was still for a long time less expensive to operate than was steam, especially for bulk haulers.

[1] San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park: <https://www.nps.gov/safr/index.htm>


Re: Ship anchors?

Robert kirkham
 

Not an area I am expert on, but have spent a fair amount of time looking at models of anchors.   For ship building, I would think most anchors were made near the shipyard, moved aboard the ship and spent their life at sea.  So if you model trackage from the anchor maker to the shipyard, OK I guess.  But I imagine most makers were at water’s edge and movement was direct from the site to the ship, or by barge from the site to the shipyard.  

For an anchor of that design, you’re looking at quite the anomaly at that size.  I think it is a larger scale model.  If it was smaller, then I could see such an anchor as part of merchandise shipped from here to there for smaller vessels.  https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/3274142/STEVSHARK/Vryhof_Anhor_History.pdf?t=1493214503869 this page has a history of designs.  Not an expert as I say, but those models look very old.


Rob Kirkham   

On Aug 21, 2020, at 7:49 AM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
I was sorting thru a box of junk I didn't even know I had, and I found these small ship anchors - see attached image. In my chosen scale (N) these are about 9 feet in length as can be seen on the scale ruler. Doing a quick internet search on "ship anchor dimensions" confirms that anchors of this size do (and did) indeed exist.
 
I assume ship anchors were shipped in steam era freight cars? I ask because I have not yet ever seen a photo of such a shipment.
 
Would they be shipped on flat cars? In gondolas? Would they have simply been tied down, or would they have been blocked in some way to keep them from shifting around during transit?
 
Any thoughts? Conjectures? Factual information? All are welcome.
 
Claus Schlund
 
<20200821_103337.jpg>


Re: Ship anchors?

Edward
 
Edited

The anchors you show are what's called a kedge anchor, with a top crossbar that can be permanent, or able to be folded down along the shank for easier storage.
It is a late 18th century design, sill made, but now for small craft. 

Anchors for a flatcar load would be more like those used on large naval vessels and ocean going ships since the late 19th century, having two large flukes attached to a shank with an eyelet for attaching the anchor chain. At about 10 tons or so each, four such anchors would make a good flat car load, held in place with wood blocking.  The attached photo will show the scale of these anchors, from a person sitting by it. 

Ed Bommer


Ship anchors?

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I was sorting thru a box of junk I didn't even know I had, and I found these small ship anchors - see attached image. In my chosen scale (N) these are about 9 feet in length as can be seen on the scale ruler. Doing a quick internet search on "ship anchor dimensions" confirms that anchors of this size do (and did) indeed exist.
 
I assume ship anchors were shipped in steam era freight cars? I ask because I have not yet ever seen a photo of such a shipment.
 
Would they be shipped on flat cars? In gondolas? Would they have simply been tied down, or would they have been blocked in some way to keep them from shifting around during transit?
 
Any thoughts? Conjectures? Factual information? All are welcome.
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Railcar Photos.com

StephenK
 

I deleted my cache and that did it.   I never had this problem before.   

Railcar Photos is a great site and I find it extremely valuable.

Steve Kay


Re: Boxcar Dimension Questions for a Decal Project

Dave Parker
 

Matt:

At that time, T&G V-groove siding was either 3-1/4 or 2-5/8; the latter was actually 5-1/4 siding with a V-grove down the middle of the board.  My sense is that the 3-1/4 was far more common.

I usually check against a known length, like an 18" grab.  Or you can use the known/ approximate length of the car.  The difference between the two siding types is large enough (24% of the narrower spacing) that it is pretty easy to figure out what's on the car.

Hope this helps.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Boxcar Dimension Questions for a Decal Project

Matt Goodman
 

Thanks for the help Howard.

On Aug 20, 2020, at 3:00 PM, earlyrail <cascaderail@...> wrote:

Found the American Straw Board in the April 1908 ORER
No dimensions
series 1-25 and 101-107
Listed under United Box Board and Paper Co.
Same info updated Sept 1908
Same info updated July 1909 listed  in Aug 1910 ORER
Listed in index Dec 1911 - could not locate
Gone from the Dec 1912 ORER

Howard Garner




Re: Boxcar Dimension Questions for a Decal Project

earlyrail
 

Found the American Straw Board in the April 1908 ORER
No dimensions
series 1-25 and 101-107
Listed under United Box Board and Paper Co.
Same info updated Sept 1908
Same info updated July 1909 listed  in Aug 1910 ORER
Listed in index Dec 1911 - could not locate
Gone from the Dec 1912 ORER

Howard Garner



Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Auto Loader (Circa 1930s)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

RJ;

 

You are correct.  I uncovered dozens of photos of auto damage claims on the PRR during my searches, and the teens thru thirties were the worst.  There was a lot of bad blocking & tie-downs, cars bumping one another, damage on the racks, etc.  It took a long while to get it right.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of radiodial868
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Auto Loader (Circa 1930s)

 

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 06:30 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:

I've always wondered how many automobiles got squashed during shipment...

A friend's dad used to work at an auto dealership in the early 1950's. He said they routinely did repairs on nicks and scratches, and sometimes major dents and damage at the dealership from cars that arrived by both rail (team track) and auto carrier.  All part of the "Dealer Prep" that still exists today. Most of the damage occurred during loading and unloading. If it occurred during loading, the damage area would be numbered with a grease pencil, and the dealership would get a credit from the factory. 
I imagine the 1930's-40's would have been even worse.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Railcar Photos.com

G.J. Irwin
 

Follow up: As of 12:30PM Eastern Time, the railcarphotos.com site appears to be to be back up and running normally.  A search I performed worked correctly as well.

Cheers,
George Irwin


Re: C&O 70 town hopper help

Brian Carlson
 

It is definitely a Kato. Black is correct. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Aug 20, 2020, at 11:41 AM, Mont Switzer <MSwitzer@...> wrote:



Schuyler,

 

I stand corrected, I believe that is a KATO model.  Details are not as fine a the IM cars----more opportunities for the prototype modeler.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

Well, CURRENT IM models have different sill steps and a few other minor differences.

 

https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hohoppers.html

and scroll down a LOT.

 

I’ve seen that sort of  “protective packaging” before which I think should assist in identifying the manufacturer.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:34 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

Lester,

 

Looks like an Intermountain model.  I have one and it checked out nicely with prototype photos.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 7:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

I am attaching a photo of a C&O class “LO” hopper model gifted me.  Number and other lettering appear to be accurate for a 70 hopper in the series the hopper is in.  I am asking if the black color is correct or should it be gray?   And, who produced the hopper?  Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.

Lester Breuer

Attachments:


Re: C&O 70 town hopper help

Mont Switzer
 

Schuyler,

 

I stand corrected, I believe that is a KATO model.  Details are not as fine a the IM cars----more opportunities for the prototype modeler.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:15 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

Well, CURRENT IM models have different sill steps and a few other minor differences.

 

https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hohoppers.html

and scroll down a LOT.

 

I’ve seen that sort of  “protective packaging” before which I think should assist in identifying the manufacturer.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:34 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

Lester,

 

Looks like an Intermountain model.  I have one and it checked out nicely with prototype photos.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 7:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

I am attaching a photo of a C&O class “LO” hopper model gifted me.  Number and other lettering appear to be accurate for a 70 hopper in the series the hopper is in.  I am asking if the black color is correct or should it be gray?   And, who produced the hopper?  Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.

Lester Breuer

Attachments:


Re: Photos: Auto Loader (Circa 1930s)

radiodial868
 

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 06:30 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:
I've always wondered how many automobiles got squashed during shipment...
A friend's dad used to work at an auto dealership in the early 1950's. He said they routinely did repairs on nicks and scratches, and sometimes major dents and damage at the dealership from cars that arrived by both rail (team track) and auto carrier.  All part of the "Dealer Prep" that still exists today. Most of the damage occurred during loading and unloading. If it occurred during loading, the damage area would be numbered with a grease pencil, and the dealership would get a credit from the factory. 
I imagine the 1930's-40's would have been even worse.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: C&O 70 town hopper help

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, CURRENT IM models have different sill steps and a few other minor differences.

 

https://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/hohoppers.html

and scroll down a LOT.

 

I’ve seen that sort of  “protective packaging” before which I think should assist in identifying the manufacturer.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2020 7:34 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

Lester,

 

Looks like an Intermountain model.  I have one and it checked out nicely with prototype photos.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 7:14 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C&O 70 town hopper help

 

I am attaching a photo of a C&O class “LO” hopper model gifted me.  Number and other lettering appear to be accurate for a 70 hopper in the series the hopper is in.  I am asking if the black color is correct or should it be gray?   And, who produced the hopper?  Thank you for your time and effort to help in advance.

Lester Breuer

Attachments:


Re: Photos: Auto Loader (Circa 1930s)

George Eichelberger
 

Here is a Google Drive link, courtesy of the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives, to three drawings, circa 1935 for Evans auto loaders. Southern drawing SF-40545 shows instructions for using the racks that was stenciled inside the Sou 272000 series 40’ dbl door box cars. Among the first Southern all-steel box cars. (A model of a box car, door open, with racks being unloaded would be spectacular on a layout or as a museum exhibit.)


Ike

PS There are many, many Southern and CofG drawings in the SRHA archives at TVRM. Visitors, and donations, are welcome.


Boxcar Dimension Questions for a Decal Project

Matt Goodman
 

All, 

My father recently got the itch to reproduce a 1907 American Strawboard boxcar (as seen here and here) and has given me the job of researching decals.

I used Photoshop Element’s perspective crop tool (learned from Ted Culotta’s Lightroom clinic and discussion on this forum - thanks!) to straighten the image at the first link, with I thought decent results (see first attached image). The second image, when straightened with the same tool turned out oddly compressed left to right. I spoke to my son (UX developer/designer) and brother (graphic artist) about this, and both were initially perplexed about the result (see the second image).

With that background, here’s my question. I can fix the second image by specifying the ratio of height to length when using the perspective crop tool - if I have dimensions.

Length
  • Is the 36’ dimension for this car the inside length, the outside “box” length or over the strike plates?
  • Is there a standard dimension for the siding board width? 

Height
  • Is there a standard door-opening height?
  • Is there a known/standard sheathing height?
  • As a stand-in for the second point, what is the inside height of these cars? It’s not listed on the car side.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US



Re: Railcar Photos.com

G.J. Irwin
 

For what it's worth, at 9:30AM Eastern Time on August 20, I tried to access railcarphotos.com and was met with a "500 Internal Server Error." 

These problems usually get straightened out relatively quickly, so I'll be patient.  RailcarPhotos is one of my go-to sites for the Unofficial Micro-Trains Release Report, although most photos are after the time period of this group.  I particularly like that builder information and heritage are added to the photo captions if it's available.

George Irwin


Re: Photos: Auto Loader (Circa 1930s)

Ray Hutchison
 

I've always wondered how many automobiles got squashed during shipment...


Re: Railcar Photos.com

Ray Hutchison
 

Important to delete cache on your computer, as it may be reloading the last page that you looked at from this site.  

(Under History, you want to tab display all, and then (at bottom) delete all.)

When I accessed the link you shared, I did not get Ann Arbor cars, but instead images of most recently added photos

rh


Re: Railcar Photos.com

StephenK
 

Sorry about that.   The website is:  https://www.railcarphotos.com/index.php?

Steve Kay

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