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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler Larrabee
Sure, that’s right. But the N&W car had no platform. My point is that in as much as the car seems to be lacking “normal” appliances, since it was in company service, they were not required to have everything necessary to be interchanged.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:25 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler,
Huh?? There was no restriction on tank cars with a single ladder and platform in interchange. They were common.
Regards, Bruce
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of jace6315 via groups.io
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler,
Huh?? There was no restriction on tank cars with a single ladder and platform in interchange. They were common.
Regards,
Bruce
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:20 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of
jace6315 via groups.io
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler Larrabee
Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of jace6315 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 10:50 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car looks like an AC&F type 21. As such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it was damaged, leaving the dome platform (so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards, Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished, which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Jim,
Just a quick note on conventions. The sides of the car are denoted when looking at the car from the B-end. So the ladder on this car is on the LEFT side. Using conventions avoids confusion 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of jace6315 via groups.io <jace6315@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 9:49 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left):
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible:
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So
no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car
looks like an AC&F type 21. As
such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the
right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it
was damaged, leaving the dome platform (so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No
great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce
Smith
Auburn,
AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished,
which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
jace6315
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950 Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888 The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner). Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So
no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car
looks like an AC&F type 21. As
such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the
right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it was damaged, leaving the dome platform
(so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably
only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished,
which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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Re: Photo: PRR Gondola 296954 With Export Log Load (Circa 1930s)
David Wiggs
What I think is
cool about this photo is something I've never seen. The towers at the left
across the tracks from the ship to which the ships rigging has been attached to
allow a further reach for the ship to unload its cargo.
davo in
Orlando
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Re: O Scale SFRD 13000 revisited
Fred Jansz
What a beauty.
Would love to posess one in HO. Fred Jansz
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So
no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car
looks like an AC&F type 21. As
such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the
right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it was damaged, leaving the dome platform
(so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably
only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished,
which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
vapeurchapelon
Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished, which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 01:09 Uhr
Von: "Garth Groff and Sally Sanford" <mallardlodge1000@...> An: main@realstmfc.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Rich,
I'm well aware that many tank cars did have ladders on one side only. That said, I've never seen a photo of a tank car that had a dome platform on both sides, and only one ladder. Usually the "back side" is plain. Maybe this is correct for this car's class. I would love to see more photographs.
Yours Aye,
Garth Groff
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 1:59 PM Rich C via groups.io <rhcdmc=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Mark Vinski
What I think are chalk guidelines used to keep the lettering straight look like decal edges. They apparently did not help to keep the reporting marks and stripes straight.
Mark Vinski
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O Scale SFRD 13000 revisited
We discussed this unusual car about two weeks ago.
A photo of the O scale, scratch-built model I did 33 years ago was shown. Then a prototype photo showing the left side having "The Super Chief to California" on it was posted as well My model had the El Capitan logo on the right side, following a photo of the prototype in the 19th edition of Carbuilders' Cyclopedia. To get it right, I did some hand lettering as the decal set had the wrong type of "E" and the word "West" was too large. For the left side, I used the 'Ship and Travel Santa Fe All the Way' from the decal set. Incorrect! I built it before I had a computer and internet access. What to do? Well, I sent off for a Protcals SFRD "Super Chief' set. The Ship and Travel decals were carefully scraped off, thanks to their 33 year age and by now vintage hardened Floquil paint underneath. The left side now carries the Super Chief logo. Its it perfect? Well, no. Decals are subject to the art work of someone else. Also laying out the lettering with those horizontal ribs blocking some of it off takes some careful planning. As it worked out, most of the Super Chief lettering covers the largest area of the former Ship and Travel logo, minimizing surface disturbances from its removal. Better? Yes. At least I'm now bit happier with my old model, now carrying the correct two Santa Fe train advertisements, one on each side. A = right side, B = old left side, D = new left side. Ed Bommer
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Rich, I'm well aware that many tank cars did have ladders on one side only. That said, I've never seen a photo of a tank car that had a dome platform on both sides, and only one ladder. Usually the "back side" is plain. Maybe this is correct for this car's class. I would love to see more photographs. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
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Re: NRC 16337
mopacfirst
That's what I presumed. Thanks, Ed, for confirming it.
Ron Merrick
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Re: NRC 16337
Ed Hawkins
Ron, Based on photos of NRC 16202, 16225, 16289, 16271 & 16491, it’s confirmed that the cars had Despatch 3-5 ends and Despatch roof. 16202 - 6-63 reweigh, 1-64 photo in relatively fresh paint, leased to Illinois Central (E.P. Herzog photo) 16225 - 3-55 reweigh, 12-26-56 photo, leased to Illinois Central (Bob’s Photo) 16289 - new 9-52, clean car in undated photo, leased to Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (Donald Buffington collection, published in TRRA Historical & Technical Society Issue #12 16261 - 8-53 reweigh, undated photo, leased to Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (Mainline Photos) 16491 - 6-57 reweigh (fresh repaint), 7-19-57 photo, leased to Gulf, Mobile & Ohio (Bob’s Photo) Cars 16202 & 16491 have “modern” sans-serif stencils. Hope this helps. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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WAB Postwar AAR DD Boxcar – Front Range Upgrade #4
Tony Thompson
Thanks Tom.
On Aug 24, 2020, at 12:24 PM, Tom Madden via groups.io <pullmanboss@...> wrote:
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NRC 16337
mopacfirst
I picked up an Intermountain kit lettered for Illinois Central lease, with the reporting marks NRC 16337, being fully aware that I would have to change something.
The MDT book shows these cars as lot 881, NRC 16000-16499, in common with MDT 11500-11999. There are a couple of photos of the MDT series in the book, and I found one of another NRC series on rr-fallenflags http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/nrc16720a01.jpg with a couple of the photos of this exact series being missing. My question is, can it be confirmed that cars in this 16000-16499 series be confirmed as having Despatch 3-5 ends? And, do these cars also have Despatch roof? Ron Merrick
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Tony Thompson
But Garth is right that usually there is no dome walk if there is no ladder. Usually. Tony Thompson
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Rich C
Garth, The ladder is on the other side of the car. Many people are not aware that most general service tank cars had only one ladder! Rich
On Tuesday, August 25, 2020, 12:56:15 PM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:
Well, maybe I should have added the link. Garth On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 1:53 PM Garth Groff and Sally Sanford via groups.io <mallardlodge1000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Well, maybe I should have added the link. Garth
On Tue, Aug 25, 2020 at 1:53 PM Garth Groff and Sally Sanford via groups.io <mallardlodge1000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
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N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Friends, As I was wandering through the N&W photos on the Virginia Tech web site ( https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/browse.php?folio_ID=/trans ), I stumbled upon the attached photo of an N&W tank car. It was part of the group "Norfolk and Western Railroad Photograph Negatives 8X10 black & white" that are presented in reverse as negatives rather than as B&W prints. I found the lack of a side ladder up to the dome platform very curious, so I downloaded it and and flipped the tones with Graphic Converter for your enjoyment and approval. Why this car should be missing its ladder is beyond me. I see no wreck damage. I can understand no ladder if there is no platform on that side of the car. The car is almost pristine, so maybe they just hadn't gotten around to putting on the ladder after repairs or repainting. Enjoy the mystery. Yours Aye, Garth Groff
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