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Re: Brass freight car noise
erieblt2
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths. Get the weight up, or as already suggested more practically, smoother trucks and or sound isolating foam inside. I personally like to play train Sound dvds to ‘set the mood’! W. Smith
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On Aug 26, 2020, at 12:51 PM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:
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Re: Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910)
MSTL boxcar 9511, built in 1906 by ACF. My records show one of a 1000, but the 1907 ORER shows 895 cars.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 12:13 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910)
[Edited Message Follows] Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910) A photo from the Nebraska State Historical Society: https://nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/EB2906D4-A317-4423-9489-033893331726 Click on the photo to enlarge it. Unless someone forgot to tell him where the side door was my guess is that he's just toping off the load. I'm sure this was not unusual but it's the first photo I've seen, excepting lumber, of anyone loading through the inspection/lumber door. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA |
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Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation
Friends,
I am hoping someone experienced with boxcar ladder sizes could help me estimate the rung width and separation height on the ladder in the attached photo? For size reference the "B&O" in the reporting marks is 9" tall and the "& Ohio" lettering higher up is 7" tall. Thank you in advance.
Bruce D. Griffin
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Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS
mark_landgraf
You might try, for a boxcar, packing it with foam rubber. If you are really desperate, fill the car with non expanding spray foam. Given the sloppiness of using spray foam, I would do it on a painted car. Clean-up is with acetone. Packing a car with fiberglass insulation may also work. Automotive spray undercutting would probably work too.
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Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS
Steve SANDIFER
Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?
J. Stephen Sandifer
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down? |
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Jack Mullen
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 09:29 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Umm, what N& W car? The OP was about the car with platform but no ladder on the RS. True, but the dome platform and ladder are safety appliances, so the requirements apply to essentially all equipment, not just those in interchange. Tank cars built after May 1, 1917 are required to have 1 dome platform, 1 ladder, 1 dome handhold, ad 1 dome platform handhold. There's no evidence that the car in the photo that began this thread doesn't meet that requirement. Jack Mullen |
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Re: Brass freight car noise
vapeurchapelon
Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise Johannes wrote:
You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
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Re: Brass freight car noise
Tony Thompson
Johannes wrote:
You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car. Tony Thompson |
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Re: Brass freight car noise
vapeurchapelon
Hello Tony,
this is certainly true. I remember some late run Challenger Imports, OMI and W&R cars running fine out of the box. But unfortunately these trucks didn't have Code-88 wheels, the brake shoes were not really fine in gauge, and the truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. So I converted them. The only cars where I use the original trucks are the latest run W&R cars which have Tahoe trucks right from the factory (Yes, true!) and the dozen W&R D&RGW coal gondolas - these, too run great with some careful adjustments and a tiny drop of oil.
(And OF COURSE I too keep all the originals for an imaginary collector after me...!)
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 19:58 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise Johannes wrote:
Certainly older brass freight cars typically had awful trucks. Like most brass of that day, it was aimed at a collector market, not operators. Trucks were almost required to be replaced if you wanted to run the car. More recent brass is quite different, often with decent trucks. I doubt any of my older brass cars have original trucks (I save them in the box for some future collector who might end up with them.)
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Re: O Scale SFRD 13000 revisited
I am impressed. Well done!
-- Michael Gross Pasadena, CA |
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Re: Brass freight car noise
Tony Thompson
Johannes wrote:
Certainly older brass freight cars typically had awful trucks. Like most brass of that day, it was aimed at a collector market, not operators. Trucks were almost required to be replaced if you wanted to run the car. More recent brass is quite different, often with decent trucks. I doubt any of my older brass cars have original trucks (I save them in the box for some future collector who might end up with them.) Tony Thompson |
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Re: Brass freight car noise
vapeurchapelon
I converted most to Tahoe and Kato trucks (and a few Bowser Crown for a couple PRR cars) which made them quieter and better running. But remember that freight trains definitely were not quiet during the steam era, plus "noisy" model freight cars makes it easier to tolerate a noisy locomotive mechanism... ;-)
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 19:14 Uhr
Von: "Jon Miller" <atsfus@...> An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise On 8/26/2020 9:56 AM, James SANDIFER wrote:
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise Tough one. If any are boxcars with doors that open you might try stuffing them with memory foam (removable if doesn't work) or similar. Other types of cars, I'm at a loss! -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User SPROG User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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Re: Brass freight car noise
Jon Miller <atsfus@...>
On 8/26/2020 9:56 AM, James SANDIFER
wrote:
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise Tough one. If any are
boxcars with doors that open you might try stuffing them with
memory foam (removable if doesn't work) or similar. Other
types of cars, I'm at a loss! -- Jon Miller For me time stopped in 1941 Digitrax Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User SPROG User NMRA Life member #2623 Member SFRH&MS |
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
jace6315
Bruce, Understand. I think I have more of a problem with left and right than the freight car conventions. Jim
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 11:10:06 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Jim,
Just a quick note on conventions. The sides of the car are denoted when looking at the car from the B-end. So the ladder on this car is on the LEFT side. Using conventions avoids confusion 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of jace6315 via groups.io <jace6315@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 9:49 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left):
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible:
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So
no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car
looks like an AC&F type 21. As
such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the
right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it
was damaged, leaving the dome platform (so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No
great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce
Smith
Auburn,
AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished,
which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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Brass freight car noise
Steve SANDIFER
I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler,
I repeat... huh? Which tank car does not have a platform (or ladder)?? I have not seen any photos of N&W tank cars in this discussion that could be described as "lacking normal appliances".
The original car of the discussion #516420, has a platform, but no ladder on the right side. No left side views were provided, but since single ladders were typically on the left side, it is reasonable to assume a ladder and platform on that side. Certainly,
without a photo of the left side, it is not reasonable to assume that there is no ladder or platform on that side.
Jim provided 2 additional cars:
#516416, seen in two different views, has a ladder and platform on the left side. BTW, this is an interesting 14,000 gallon car, quite large for the time it was built!
#516005 has a ladder and platform on the left side.
So, what tank car are we talking about here that has no platform (or ladder)?
Regards,
Bruce From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:29 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Sure, that’s right. But the N&W car had no platform. My point is that in as much as the car seems to be lacking “normal” appliances, since it was in company service, they were not required to have everything necessary to be interchanged.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Bruce Smith
Schuyler,
Huh?? There was no restriction on tank cars with a single ladder and platform in interchange. They were common.
Regards, Bruce
From:
main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
On Behalf Of jace6315 via groups.io
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler Larrabee
Sure, that’s right. But the N&W car had no platform. My point is that in as much as the car seems to be lacking “normal” appliances, since it was in company service, they were not required to have everything necessary to be interchanged.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 12:25 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler,
Huh?? There was no restriction on tank cars with a single ladder and platform in interchange. They were common.
Regards, Bruce
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of jace6315 via groups.io
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews |
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler,
Huh?? There was no restriction on tank cars with a single ladder and platform in interchange. They were common.
Regards,
Bruce
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:20 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of
jace6315 via groups.io
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews |
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Schuyler Larrabee
Since these tanks seem to be in “company service,” and not in interchange, a lot of the rules about what the cars “had to have” didn’t apply. That may explain the lack of a ladder and a platform.
Schuyler
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of jace6315 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 10:50 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left): https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
There is a dent in the tank above the number two so maybe it was in for wreck repairs. That whole end of the car looks a little off but that could just be the perspective of the photograph. Either way, it's a new repaint with chalk lines still visible. The car is in company service, other larger capacity tanks of similar vintage also have one ladder but alas with only one platform (https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19954, https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19953). The ladder on this car is on the right side when looking towards the B-end. Maybe the railroad wanted to keep that consistent.
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible: https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car looks like an AC&F type 21. As such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it was damaged, leaving the dome platform (so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards, Bruce Bruce Smith Auburn, AL From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished, which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953 |
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Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car
Jim,
Just a quick note on conventions. The sides of the car are denoted when looking at the car from the B-end. So the ladder on this car is on the LEFT side. Using conventions avoids confusion 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of jace6315 via groups.io <jace6315@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 9:49 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Here's another view of the same car, same side (handbrake, B-end, to the left):
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=19950
Another company service tank, B-end to the right, ladder visible:
https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=138888
The battleship gon behind the tank also looks to have a dent (in the corner).
Jim Matthews
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 7:55:35 AM EDT, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Johannes, Folks,
This photo was almost certainly taken by an N&W photographer at an N&W car shop. The two cars pictured are both in new paint and lettering, as noted by Johannes and others. A careful look at the tank car indicates that it may not yet have been reweighed. So
no, it's probably not a "special" occasion, it's just two cars outside the car shops, fresh from repairs, rebuilding, or simply repainting, waiting to go to the scales.
This is, of course, not a builder's photo. The tank car
looks like an AC&F type 21. As
such, this photo may represent the N&W's acquisition of a 2nd hand car, or their documentation of repair/repaint of a car they have owned for some time. Either situation tends to lend credence to the idea that the car was built with 2 ladders and that the
right hand ladder has subsequently been removed, whether because the owner (prior or N&W) felt it was unnecessary, or because it
was damaged, leaving the dome platform (so as not to require patching holes in the tank).
No
great mystery here, just an oddball car that probably only matters to N&W modelers 😉
Regards,
Bruce
Bruce
Smith
Auburn,
AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 2:44 AM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W Ladderless Tank Car Hello friends,
when I saw the car in this clean condition and realized that 12-wheel "battleship" gondola in the back ground in about same condition I think it could have been some promoting event to show these cars, and maybe the tank car just wasn't completely finished,
which didn't matter if photographed only from the other side?
Regards
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
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