Date   

Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Edward
 
Edited

The problem is that a brass car, especially a box car is, in the reality of physics, an empty metal 'can' on wheels. 
As such it audibly magnifies any drumming disturbances pick up when rolling along, like a speaker.
The denser pink or blue styrofoam used for insulation cut into blocks that fit snugly inside over the trucks help reduce that effect.
It should fit against the floor, car end and both walls for maximum deadening. 
It need not be very tall.
The area where a door could be open can remain clear. 
Best to make any sound deadening easy to remove and not alter the car in any way.
To hide these blocks if seen, end covers can be made to resemble loads held in place with retainers.
I've done some sound deadening with brass hopper cars, fitting in a sheet of dense styrofoam under the coal load, making certain it touches both sides and both ends.
However a brass stock car could be a challenge. Maybe a thin sheet of styrofoam  fitted the floor, over which some straw could be glued? 
One plus, its open sides are less likely to resonate as much as those on a fully enclosed car. 

Ed Bommer


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Gary McMills
 

Hi James,

Try one of the thin Kadee fiber washers between the truck and the freight car bolster to deaden the noise.

best,

Gary McMills93

 


On 2020-08-26 17:23, James SANDIFER wrote:

 

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?

 


Re: Brass freight car noise

Schuyler Larrabee
 

As might a stick of styrene carefully wedged between the sides, perhaps glued in place.  CAREFULLY as you don’t want to inadvertently deform the car sides by pushing them outward so make the stick just long enough to stay in place but without using a lot of force.  By changing the length of the vibrating side, you interfere with whatever resonance is causing the noise.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.

Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Ryan Mendell
 

Bruce,

I concur with the others, 18" wide by 18" vertical spacing.  YMMW model works has this combination of rung width and ladder rung vertical spacing.

Ryan Mendell


Re: Brass freight car noise

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.
Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Chad Boas
 

You could try Dynamat. They use it in cars under the carpet to keep out road noise. You can get a small sheet for around $30. That would be enough to do a fleet of brass cars.
Chad


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Douglas Harding
 

Bruce I would agree, 18”. I believe that was a standard ladder width. The car number could be used to find the car in an ORER listing or full photo of a car from the same series, that could off more dimensional information.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Griffin
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

 

Friends,

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question, I was trying not to be leading.  Using the dividers and the known dimensions on the lettering (from a B&O lettering drawing), the ladders appear to be close to 18" wide with a 18" separation. Does that look like what you see?  The opening looks rectangular, but measure square. 

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question, I was trying not to be leading.  Using the dividers and the known dimensions on the lettering (from a B&O lettering drawing), the ladders appear to be close to 18" wide with a 18" separation. Does that look like what you see?  The opening looks rectangular, but measure square. 

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Mark,

Foam rubber, or artificial foam as is more likely, might quiet such a car. However, both materials deteriorate with age and become flakey, making a potential mess. White styrofoam blocks carefully cut to fill the car might be more stable.

Non-expanding spray foam is messy, and the solvents in the foam could dissolve some plastics, as does acetone. I used acetone to clean some used archery bows I bought for our loaner kit, and found it temporarily softened fiberglass or the acrylic plastic, though eventually it hardened again without serious damage.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:34 PM mark_landgraf via groups.io <mark_landgraf=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You might try, for a boxcar, packing it with foam rubber. If you are really desperate, fill the car with non expanding spray foam. Given the sloppiness of using spray foam, I would do it on a painted car. Clean-up is with acetone.  Packing a car with fiberglass insulation may also work.  Automotive spray undercutting would probably work too. 

Fiber wasters between the truck bolster and the car bolster would probably help too. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:23 PM, James SANDIFER

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

mel perry
 

if you know the wheel spacing of the
truck, take the photo tona copy.shop
that has a scaleable copy machine and
increase or decrease the size until you
get the right size, you'll also need a
scale ruler to verify, btw that photo
looks like a model, not the real.thing
;-)

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:16 PM Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:
Friends,

I am hoping someone experienced with boxcar ladder sizes could help me estimate the rung width and separation height on the ladder in the attached photo? For size reference the "B&O" in the reporting marks is 9" tall and the "& Ohio" lettering higher up is 7" tall. Thank you in advance.

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 

Attachments:


Re: Brass freight car noise

erieblt2
 

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths. Get the weight up, or as already suggested more practically, smoother trucks and or sound isolating foam inside. I personally like to play train Sound dvds to ‘set the mood’! W. Smith


On Aug 26, 2020, at 12:51 PM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:


Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
 
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 
   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Re: Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910)

Douglas Harding
 

MSTL boxcar 9511, built in 1906 by ACF. My records show one of a 1000, but the 1907 ORER shows 895 cars.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2020 12:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910)

 

[Edited Message Follows]

Photo: Shoveling Ears Of Corn Into A Boxcar (Circa 1910)

A photo from the Nebraska State Historical Society:

https://nebraskahistory.pastperfectonline.com/photo/EB2906D4-A317-4423-9489-033893331726

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Unless someone forgot to tell him where the side door was my guess is that he's just toping off the load.

I'm sure this was not unusual but it's the first photo I've seen, excepting lumber, of anyone loading through the inspection/lumber door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

I am hoping someone experienced with boxcar ladder sizes could help me estimate the rung width and separation height on the ladder in the attached photo? For size reference the "B&O" in the reporting marks is 9" tall and the "& Ohio" lettering higher up is 7" tall. Thank you in advance.

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

mark_landgraf
 

You might try, for a boxcar, packing it with foam rubber. If you are really desperate, fill the car with non expanding spray foam. Given the sloppiness of using spray foam, I would do it on a painted car. Clean-up is with acetone.  Packing a car with fiberglass insulation may also work.  Automotive spray undercutting would probably work too. 

Fiber wasters between the truck bolster and the car bolster would probably help too. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:23 PM, James SANDIFER
<steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Steve SANDIFER
 

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?


Re: N&W Ladderless Tank Car

Jack Mullen
 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 09:29 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

But the N&W car had no platform. 

Umm, what N& W car?  The OP was about the car with platform but no ladder on the RS.

My point is that in as much as the car seems to be lacking “normal” appliances, since it was in company service, they were not required to have everything necessary to be interchanged.

True, but the dome platform and ladder are safety appliances, so the requirements apply to essentially all equipment, not just those in interchange. 

Tank cars built after May 1, 1917 are required to have 1 dome platform, 1 ladder, 1 dome handhold, ad 1 dome platform handhold. There's no evidence that the car in the photo that began this thread doesn't meet that requirement.

Jack Mullen


Re: Brass freight car noise

vapeurchapelon
 

Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
 
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 
   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Re: Brass freight car noise

Tony Thompson
 

Johannes wrote:

But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 

   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.

Tony Thompson




Re: Brass freight car noise

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Tony,
 
this is certainly true. I remember some late run Challenger Imports, OMI and W&R cars running fine out of the box. But unfortunately these trucks didn't have Code-88 wheels, the brake shoes were not really fine in gauge, and the truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. So I converted them. The only cars where I use the original trucks are the latest run W&R cars which have Tahoe trucks right from the factory (Yes, true!) and the dozen W&R D&RGW coal gondolas - these, too run great with some careful adjustments and a tiny drop of oil.
(And OF COURSE I too keep all the originals for an imaginary collector after me...!)
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 19:58 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
I converted most to Tahoe and Kato trucks (and a few Bowser Crown for a couple PRR cars) which made them quieter and better running. But remember that freight trains definitely were not quiet during the steam era, plus "noisy" model freight cars makes it easier to tolerate a noisy locomotive mechanism... ;-)
      Certainly older brass freight cars typically had awful trucks. Like most brass of that day, it was aimed at a collector market, not operators. Trucks were almost required to be replaced if you wanted to run the car. More recent brass is quite different, often with decent trucks. I doubt any of my older brass cars have original trucks (I save  them in the box for some future collector who might end up with them.)
 
Tony Thompson
 
 


Re: O Scale SFRD 13000 revisited

Michael Gross
 

I am impressed.  Well done!
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA

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