Date   

Re: WP 1201-1250 Tank Cars

Norm Buckhart
 


On Aug 28, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...> wrote:

Hello All,

Do any of the tank car fanatics on this list have a photo they can share of these cars circa ‘30’s or ‘40’s? I am looking for the “as built” lettering. In particular I want to know if the right hand data was placed right or left of the tank bands. It was unusual for thIs lettering to be to the left of the bands and most of the later photos you see of these cars had it placed left of the bands but was it that way originally?

Thank you,

Tom


Tom - this is from the 1920-50’s and may help.  Norm Buckhart


WP 1201-1250 Tank Cars

Tom Lawler
 

Hello All,

Do any of the tank car fanatics on this list have a photo they can share of these cars circa ‘30’s or ‘40’s? I am looking for the “as built” lettering. In particular I want to know if the right hand data was placed right or left of the tank bands. It was unusual for thIs lettering to be to the left of the bands and most of the later photos you see of these cars had it placed left of the bands but was it that way originally?

Thank you,

Tom


New NYC gondola kit and more

Eric Hansmann
 

Resin Car Works has new products available to help you ease into a new month. Our latest blog post has more details.

http://blog.resincarworks.com/new-nyc-gondola-kit-and-more/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

RCW web guy

 

 


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Bruce Griffin
 

Thank you for your replies, public and private, I’ll go with 7 rung 18” by 18” ladders. 
--

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Andy Carlson
 


Years ago I had a model railroader friend who was annoyed by the sound box vibrations from his brass fleet. I suggested aquarium Silicone caulk applied inside the car body in an 'X' pattern on each side of the door.

He later told me he was satisfied 100% with the results.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


_._,_._,_


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Ed and Friends,

Richard Hendrickson used blocks of styrofoam randomly carved on top into rounded shapes to simulate sheep in one of his two-deck Mather stock cars. The effect was pretty good. See page 15 in the May 1997 RAILMODEL JOURNAL.

Maybe this would also work as a sound deadener in a brass two-deck stock car. Of course, you would have to do both decks to look right.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:22 PM Edward <edb8381@...> wrote:
The problem is that a brass car, especially a box car is, in the reality of physics, an empty metal 'can' on wheels. 
As such it audibly magnifies any drumming disturbances pick up when rolling along, like a speaker.
The denser pink or blue styrofoam used for insulation cut into blocks that fit snugly inside over the trucks help reduce that effect.
It should fit against the floor and both walls for maximum deadening. 
The area where a door could be open can remain clear. 
Best to make any sound deadening easy to remove and not alter the car in any way.
To hide these blocks if seen, end covers can be made to resemble loads held in place with retainers.
I've done some sound deadening with brass hopper cars, fitting in a sheet of dense styrofoam under the coal load, making certain it touches both sides and both ends.
However a brass stock car could be a challenge. Maybe a thin sheet of styrofoam  fitted the floor, over which some straw could be glued? 
One plus, its open sides are less likely to resonate as much as those on a fully enclosed car. 

Ed Bommer


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Charlie Vlk
 

How about stuffing in a block cut to size to fit the inside. Another way would be to use mastic like is used for lining fuel tanks or truck beds but I don't think it would be more effective than the soft foam and would be a mess and hard to get off if you wanted to return the model to factory condition.
Flat cars, gondolas and hoppers would have to get a load of some sort to dampen noise and the more mass probably the better.
Charlie Vlk

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:30 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

I might (half seriously) suggest obtaining a set of noise cancelling headphones. You could then take the guts of said headphones and install them within the offending boxcar. I believe that they are 12 volt, and so could be wired to run off of track power if you so decided. Alternatively, you could run them off of batteries and only turn them on when the car was running. ;)

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Brass freight car noise

Richard Townsend
 

Here's something a little off the wall related to Schuyler's suggestion. Years ago I used to participate in a theater group that used portable stage risers. To reduce the resonance of the risers we put in internal baffles. The important thing was to create spaces having a dimensional ratio of 1:1.62. It usually meant there were some odd-sized spaces left over, but the 1:1.62 ratio worked. I know this ratio is important in art and architecture (it's often referred to as the golden ratio). So if the internal width of the brass car is one inch, you could put in baffles 1.62 inches from each end.  In between might be a space big enough for a third 1:1.62 baffle and some minor left-over space.

Disclaimer: I have no brass house cars and have never tried this.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2020 8:30 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

As might a stick of styrene carefully wedged between the sides, perhaps glued in place.  CAREFULLY as you don’t want to inadvertently deform the car sides by pushing them outward so make the stick just long enough to stay in place but without using a lot of force.  By changing the length of the vibrating side, you interfere with whatever resonance is causing the noise.
 
Schuyler
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
 
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.
Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Bruce Smith
 

I might (half seriously) suggest obtaining a set of noise cancelling headphones. You could then take the guts of said headphones and install them within the offending boxcar. I believe that they are 12 volt, and so could be wired to run off of track power if you so decided. Alternatively, you could run them off of batteries and only turn them on when the car was running. ;)

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Edward
 
Edited

The problem is that a brass car, especially a box car is, in the reality of physics, an empty metal 'can' on wheels. 
As such it audibly magnifies any drumming disturbances pick up when rolling along, like a speaker.
The denser pink or blue styrofoam used for insulation cut into blocks that fit snugly inside over the trucks help reduce that effect.
It should fit against the floor, car end and both walls for maximum deadening. 
It need not be very tall.
The area where a door could be open can remain clear. 
Best to make any sound deadening easy to remove and not alter the car in any way.
To hide these blocks if seen, end covers can be made to resemble loads held in place with retainers.
I've done some sound deadening with brass hopper cars, fitting in a sheet of dense styrofoam under the coal load, making certain it touches both sides and both ends.
However a brass stock car could be a challenge. Maybe a thin sheet of styrofoam  fitted the floor, over which some straw could be glued? 
One plus, its open sides are less likely to resonate as much as those on a fully enclosed car. 

Ed Bommer


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Gary McMills
 

Hi James,

Try one of the thin Kadee fiber washers between the truck and the freight car bolster to deaden the noise.

best,

Gary McMills93

 


On 2020-08-26 17:23, James SANDIFER wrote:

 

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?

 


Re: Brass freight car noise

Schuyler Larrabee
 

As might a stick of styrene carefully wedged between the sides, perhaps glued in place.  CAREFULLY as you don’t want to inadvertently deform the car sides by pushing them outward so make the stick just long enough to stay in place but without using a lot of force.  By changing the length of the vibrating side, you interfere with whatever resonance is causing the noise.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 11:20 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.

Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Ryan Mendell
 

Bruce,

I concur with the others, 18" wide by 18" vertical spacing.  YMMW model works has this combination of rung width and ladder rung vertical spacing.

Ryan Mendell


Re: Brass freight car noise

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 07:38 PM, erieblt2 wrote:
Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths.
Indeed. The hollow brass body is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the vibrations caused by the wheels on the rails, the same as the hollow body of a stringed instrument amplifies the vibrations of the strings. What is needed is to change the resonance of the body. If the model could use a bit more weight, I bet a couple of those self stick tire weights that some use for weighting cars would help, IF they were stuck to the inside of the body shell rather than the floor.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Chad Boas
 

You could try Dynamat. They use it in cars under the carpet to keep out road noise. You can get a small sheet for around $30. That would be enough to do a fleet of brass cars.
Chad


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Douglas Harding
 

Bruce I would agree, 18”. I believe that was a standard ladder width. The car number could be used to find the car in an ORER listing or full photo of a car from the same series, that could off more dimensional information.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Griffin
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2020 9:23 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

 

Friends,

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question, I was trying not to be leading.  Using the dividers and the known dimensions on the lettering (from a B&O lettering drawing), the ladders appear to be close to 18" wide with a 18" separation. Does that look like what you see?  The opening looks rectangular, but measure square. 

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

Maybe I wasn't clear in my question, I was trying not to be leading.  Using the dividers and the known dimensions on the lettering (from a B&O lettering drawing), the ladders appear to be close to 18" wide with a 18" separation. Does that look like what you see?  The opening looks rectangular, but measure square. 

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Brass freight car noise - NOT TRUCKS

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Mark,

Foam rubber, or artificial foam as is more likely, might quiet such a car. However, both materials deteriorate with age and become flakey, making a potential mess. White styrofoam blocks carefully cut to fill the car might be more stable.

Non-expanding spray foam is messy, and the solvents in the foam could dissolve some plastics, as does acetone. I used acetone to clean some used archery bows I bought for our loaner kit, and found it temporarily softened fiberglass or the acrylic plastic, though eventually it hardened again without serious damage.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆



On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:34 PM mark_landgraf via groups.io <mark_landgraf=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
You might try, for a boxcar, packing it with foam rubber. If you are really desperate, fill the car with non expanding spray foam. Given the sloppiness of using spray foam, I would do it on a painted car. Clean-up is with acetone.  Packing a car with fiberglass insulation may also work.  Automotive spray undercutting would probably work too. 

Fiber wasters between the truck bolster and the car bolster would probably help too. 

Mark Landgraf
Albany NY


On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 6:23 PM, James SANDIFER

Will someone please address the question? Yes, I have replaced the trucks, as stated in the original question. I want to quiet down the tin sound of brass cars. Any suggestions on making them quiet?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of James SANDIFER
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 11:56 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise

 

I have a number of brass freight cars that make "brass" noise. I have replaced the trucks on virtually all so they roll well. What is the best way to quiet them down?


Re: Help with B&O M-59 Ladder Size Approximation

mel perry
 

if you know the wheel spacing of the
truck, take the photo tona copy.shop
that has a scaleable copy machine and
increase or decrease the size until you
get the right size, you'll also need a
scale ruler to verify, btw that photo
looks like a model, not the real.thing
;-)

On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 6:16 PM Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:
Friends,

I am hoping someone experienced with boxcar ladder sizes could help me estimate the rung width and separation height on the ladder in the attached photo? For size reference the "B&O" in the reporting marks is 9" tall and the "& Ohio" lettering higher up is 7" tall. Thank you in advance.

 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 

Attachments:


Re: Brass freight car noise

erieblt2
 

Working with sound isolation for the Navy the noise-vibration-can be lessened by of of two (or both) methods: isolation or increase mass to change the vibration (Noise)wavelengths. Get the weight up, or as already suggested more practically, smoother trucks and or sound isolating foam inside. I personally like to play train Sound dvds to ‘set the mood’! W. Smith


On Aug 26, 2020, at 12:51 PM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:


Know that trick. Probably will do it on the coal gondolas. Nonetheless many thanks for the reminder.
For more "ordinary" trucks the list goes on:
- finding new .88 wheel sets
- grinding away the brake shoes
- making the bolsters accept Kadee brake pads (if possible at all! Some side frames are clipped to the bolster, or screwed on horizontally.)
 
Before I would even think about doing this to maybe 50 brass cars with at least 30 different (model manufacturer) trucks I purchase new ones which need NO work and I am happy ;-)
 
Regards
 
Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. August 2020 um 21:17 Uhr
Von: "Tony Thompson" <tony@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass freight car noise
Johannes wrote:
 
But unfortunately these truck springs of course were real springs making for that inaccurate "too light" look. 
   You can do the Richard Hendrickson trick, just glue a little square of styrene behind the springs. Then you can't see through them, and they look greatly better. This would only be a choice if the trucks are actually the right ones for the car.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 

11521 - 11540 of 188578