Date   

SNX 1609

Schuyler Larrabee
 

All,

 

Several years ago I bought, at Cocoa Beach, a 5th Avenue Car Shops, Accurail kit for a National Car Company reefer.  Now that it’s properly aged I thought I’d get to it and assemble it, adding appropriate details as I can.  But the first instruction is to paint the roof “silver.”

 

And that is my question.  What is meant by the term “silver?”   Silver as in the prototype was actually painted with silver paint?  Or is this a “galvanized roof color silver?”  The sides are lettered as “REBUILT PLT 1-52” which is also the last reweigh date, so this is a “new” car for my modeling purposes.

 

I have a mix I use for galvanized roofs which is part silver, part gray, and looks very good.  But I also have silver paint, and could use that.  In any event, it will get a dusting of loco exhaust (both, either, steam or diesel) and perhaps some light weathering, dust along the bottom edge mostly, along the sides and ends.

 

Oh, and while we’re at it, the supplied roof walk is wood, painted brown to match the ends (and underframe).  In ’52, would these cars have a metal roof walk?  Of what style?  And one more variable, should the roof walk be painted silver, too?  And is that a “depends on whether it’s wood or metal” question?

 

And what may be a minor point: Where was “PLT” ?

 

Thanks for the assistance I know this list can provide.

 

Schuyler


Photo: NX Reefer 3610 (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NX Reefer 3610 (Undated)

A photo from the Virginia Tech University Library:

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=nw064

This photo can be enlarged.

Cranstone's website lists the NX reporting marks as assigned to the National Car Company from 7/1930 to 7/1935 and to Fruit Growers Express  from 7/1937 to 4/1970. As you'll notice, there is a two-year gap between 1935 and 1937.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Flat Black

charlie9
 

I have had good luck with Rustoleum rattle cans from Walmart.  They have a wide variety of colors and finishes.

Charlie Schildt (grouchy German)


Photo: GN Boxcar 51317 With Forward Facing Rocky (1943)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GN Boxcar 51317 With Forward Facing Rocky (1943)

A photo from the University of Utah Digital Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6qj9cn1

For you GN fans.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Toledo, St Louis & Western Railroad Boxcar(Early 1900s?)

Ray Breyer
 

The cars were built at ACF Terre Haute in August 1903 (lot 2793).

Amazing how photos float around on FB. I posted this image two years ago on the TStL&W FB page, and it's now running around all over the place.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Wednesday, September 2, 2020, 11:38:27 AM CDT, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photo: Toledo, St Louis & Western Railroad Boxcar(Early 1900s?)

A photo courtesy of Norma J. Schroeder on the Facebook Railroad Images of Bygone Days Group.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Toledo, St Louis & Western Railroad Boxcar(Early 1900s?)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Toledo, St Louis & Western Railroad Boxcar(Early 1900s?)

A photo courtesy of Norma J. Schroeder on the Facebook Railroad Images of Bygone Days Group.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Rock Island Gondola 917 With Boxed Military Equipment (1945)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Rock Island Gondola 917 With Boxed Military Equipment (1945)

A photo from the University of Utah Digital Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s67d64q5

This photo can be enlarged.

Good detail of restraining straps and hooks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: Frisco Boxcar 120841 With Load Advertising (1907)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Frisco Boxcar 120841 With Load Advertising (1907)

A photo from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6j67tdh

This photo can be enlarged.

It appears that a previous ad was placed over the "F" in Frisco.

Load is traveling belt screens for the mining industry:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6nc68mv

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Flat Black

John Sykes III
 

I think that, all in all, the most important factor is the evaporation rate of the solvent.  Acetone evaporates the fastest.  I've had the paint dry before it hits the surface being painted with acetone as a airbrush thinner.  Lacquer thinner is somewhat slower (depending on the VOC % - higher VOC = faster drying).  Toluene and zylenes are about the same (except toluene attacks plastics more - it was the main ingredient of the old Testors plastic cement) and Butyl Cellosolve* (2-butoxyethanol) is the slowest.  The key is the % of aromatics (VOCs).  I also have Naptha VM&P but have not used it.  I am just talking about lacquers here (old Floquil and ScaleCoat I).  A lot of the personal preferences with lacquers is due to the heat and humidity where they are being used.  I live in Florida (hot and humid) so that colors my preferences.

With enamels (e.g. ScaleCoat II), again the main issue is the VOC content of the paint thinner (a/k/a mineral spirits, a/k/a etc., etc.).  "Low odor" paint thinners have lower aromatics/VOC concentrations, hence lower solvent abilities - not so good for cleaning brushes (air or bristle).  Turpentine was/is a whole different animal (I don't use it, but many artists still do with oil paints) based on turpenes (e.g. phenols).  I've used lacquer thinner for weathering with SCII flats, very successfully I might say, because when mixed with paint at a 90:10 ratio (thinner to paint) it dries in seconds, which is what I want when weathering, so I can layer dust, grime, rust, etc. in one session.

Note that, as is the case with Diosol, a lot of the above solvents can be mixed to control their solvent ability and drying rate.

*  A mix of 5-10% Butyl Cellosolve & in isopropyl alcohol (91%) makes a good paint stripper (a/k/a Chameleon or Wash Away), but not for use on ABS plastic.  4-6% Butyl Cellosolve in water with a tiny bit of surfactant makes a good decal setting solution (original Hobsco Solvaset or Champ formula).  The new Walthers Solvaset uses a completely different chemistry.  Butyl Cellosolve is a rare bird in that it is soluble in both organics and water.

-- John


Re: Automotive Restoration high gloss lacquer reducer + Brush Cleaner

Nelson Moyer
 

Wouldn’t lacquer thinner be cheaper?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of StephenK
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 7:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Automotive Restoration high gloss lacquer reducer + Brush Cleaner

 

As mentioned, Jim Six used automotive reducer to thin all solvent paints.   I use Testor's liquid cement for plastics to clean all of my brushes.   Instead of a jar of solvent for each paint type, I dip the brush in Testor's to clean.   Works every time.   Each year or so I buy a fresh bottle 

Steve Kay


Re: Automotive Restoration high gloss lacquer reducer + Brush Cleaner

StephenK
 

As mentioned, Jim Six used automotive reducer to thin all solvent paints.   I use Testor's liquid cement for plastics to clean all of my brushes.   Instead of a jar of solvent for each paint type, I dip the brush in Testor's to clean.   Works every time.   Each year or so I buy a fresh bottle 

Steve Kay


Re: Flat Black

Mont Switzer
 

John,

 

Agree completely.  I still use Floquil and Scalecoat I thinning it and cleaning brushes with lacquer thinner.  I use the same lacquer thinner that they use in the body shop and never had a problem…...other than me doing something really stupid.  Quality materials won’t prevent that.  

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Sykes III via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 6:13 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Black

 

Mont:

I use standard paint thinner (a/k/a mineral spirits, a/k/a Stoddard solvent) with SCII (I do not use the low-odor paint thinner).

SCI is a whole different problem.  Since DioSol has gone the way of the dinosaurs, you have lacquer thinner (do not use the junk they sell as HD or Lowes, go to a good paint store and get the "hot" automotive lacquer thinner), and Steve Hoxie uses xylenes (a/k/a xylol).  I've tried the xylenes and it works well but is more expensive than the lacquer thinner (I get my LT at Sherwin Williams).  The junk they sell at HD, Lowes and Ace is only good for cleaning brushes, spills, etc.

If you are in California, getting these solvents may be a problem, so drive over to Nevada.  ScaleCoat paints (both I & II) require a high-VOC thinner to work properly.  I think the latest can I got was like 800 g/L VOCs (would give a California tree-hugger a stroke!).

-- John


Re: 40ft Pratt truss single sheathed boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Garth 

It certainly looks like a B50-15 

Paul Doggett.   England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 1 Sep 2020, at 23:40, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Claus and Charles,

It is a B-50-15, built for the SP subsidiary Morgan's Louisiana & Texas (ML&T) in 1925 as 53060-53559 or 1926 as 36210-36509. These were relettered to T&NO, probably around 1928, though I wasn't able to find the exact date. T&NO ended up with 800, while the SP had 3,100. Some lasted on the SP as late as 1970. The last T&NO car was retired around 1965.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 4:45 PM Charles Morrill <badlands@...> wrote:
I can make out the SP herald and the "T&" before the vertical rib.  I would take it as a T&NO car.



From: "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...>
To: "main" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 1:26:44 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 40ft Pratt truss single sheathed boxcar

Hi List Members,
 
The resolution on this image is lacking a bit, but my feeling is that the reporting mark on this 40ft Pratt truss single sheathed boxcar might be T&NO - does anyone have thoughts one way or the other?
 
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Flat Black

Kenneth Montero
 

Bill,

From an earlier posting by Jon Miller on August 31 - these folks buy & sell Floquil, and currently list Glaze for sale (I just checked):


Ken Montero


On 09/01/2020 7:12 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <pardiew001@...> wrote:


I had a fair stash of flotilla when they shut down and have accumulated more of their basic colors since.  What I did no have was Dio sol.

I got the mix for Diosol from a trusted modeler.
It is :

       40%   Toluene
        40%   Nathan
        20%   Xylene

I think I have a lifetime supply of these.  Now if I could just find Floquil Glaze.

Bill Pardie

   

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone



-------- Original message --------
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
Date: 9/1/20 12:26 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Flat Black

John Sykes wrote:

SCI is a whole different problem.  Since DioSol has gone the way of the dinosaurs, you have lacquer thinner (do not use the junk they sell as HD or Lowes, go to a good paint store and get the "hot" automotive lacquer thinner), and Steve Hoxie uses xylenes (a/k/a xylol).  I've tried the xylenes and it works well but is more expensive than the lacquer thinner (I get my LT at Sherwin Williams).  The junk they sell at HD, Lowes and Ace is only good for cleaning brushes, spills, etc.

If you are in California, getting these solvents may be a problem, so drive over to Nevada.  

     Good "professional" paint stores have all this stuff in California. The "Big Box" boys don't want to do the paperwork, but it can certainly be sold here.
      Incidentally, as John knows, there is no unique entity "paint thinner." A wide variety of formulations have been and still are so marketed. Mineral sports usually dominate, but lots of other things, such as turpentine, naphtha, toluene and MEK may also be present. And for those not familiar, "VOC" stands for Volatile Organic Compounds."

Tony Thompson
Berkeley, CA




Re: Flat Black

Craig Zeni
 

As Mont says, I use the SC II thinner.  I put too much time into models to risk ruining one by trying to cheap out on the thinner, no matter whose paint.  Hardware store lacquer thinner gets used for clean up but for the actual finish? Manufacturer's thinner.  A $10 can of SC II thinner I bought 10 years ago is barely half gone.    The lone exception is using Mr Self Leveling Thinner with Tru Color; the Tru Color thinner is too darn volatile and obscenely expensive.  The Mr SLT works great on the stuff.

Craig Zeni
Cary NC


Re: Automotive Restoration high gloss lacquer reducer

Tony Thompson
 


Andy Carlson wrote:

This firm sells High Quality lacquer reducer (Automotive paint shops name for lacquer thinner). 

    Richard Hendrickson used automotive lacquer thinner for everything in model painting, and bought it in cartons of four quart cans. I inherited a full can.

Tony Thompson




Re: Diosol Formula Again

Jeff Coleman
 

I've been using straight Xylene with Floquil for past 25 yrs. with no problems. 

Jeff Coleman

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 8:35 PM qmp211 <milepost206@...> wrote:
Greetings,

This is a re-post to.

I copied the Diosol formula posted in one of the yahoo groups several years ago by a chemist who lab analyzed and posted the formula. This is as posted verbatim.

"38% by vol toluene, 41% by vol xylene and 21% by vol Solvesso 100 (a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent). Getting the toluene and xylene is not difficult, but the Solvesso 100 is only available through chemical suppliers."

I was fortunate to have a local paint manufacturer that could provide the Solvesso 100. Solvesso is also known as Naptha and  available in various grades.

All the ingredients were available at Sherwin Williams 6 months ago.

Randy Danniel


Re: Diosol Formula Again

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Sep 1, 2020, at 17:35, qmp211 <milepost206@mchsi.com> wrote:

Greetings,

This is a re-post to.

I copied the Diosol formula posted in one of the yahoo groups several years ago by a chemist who lab analyzed and posted the formula. This is as posted verbatim.

"38% by vol toluene, 41% by vol xylene and 21% by vol Solvesso 100 (a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent). Getting the toluene and xylene is not difficult, but the Solvesso 100 is only available through chemical suppliers."
I've read the MSDS docs for toluene and xylene so many times that I'm glad I don't play with Diosol any more. Nitrile gloves and an extremely well-ventilated workspace are necessities for me...


Diosol Formula Again

qmp211
 

Greetings,

This is a re-post to.

I copied the Diosol formula posted in one of the yahoo groups several years ago by a chemist who lab analyzed and posted the formula. This is as posted verbatim.

"38% by vol toluene, 41% by vol xylene and 21% by vol Solvesso 100 (a long evaporation rate aromatic hydrocarbon solvent). Getting the toluene and xylene is not difficult, but the Solvesso 100 is only available through chemical suppliers."

I was fortunate to have a local paint manufacturer that could provide the Solvesso 100. Solvesso is also known as Naptha and  available in various grades.

All the ingredients were available at Sherwin Williams 6 months ago.

Randy Danniel


Re: Photo: Loading A Fire Truck

John Barry
 

I have one of the Crown Custom Imports models of the X30 in the Later Oxide Red-Later Keystone.  Before I strip and repaint as shown below, does anyone have one in Circle Keystone that they are willing to trade for my later scheme?

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Monday, August 31, 2020, 09:28:01 PM EDT, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:


Photo: Loading A Fire Truck

Eric Kurowski posted these photos on the Facebook Railroad Images Of Bygone Days site. I believe we've seen the photo of the entire boxcar before.
I imagine the fellow on the truck had to duck when the last few feet of the fire truck entered the boxcar.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

5201 - 5220 of 182364