Date   

Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Hi Dennis.

Yes, I have the digitized copy, and folks who have figured out to gain member access to the Hathi Trust collection (a subject of some prior posts) can find it here, and download the PDF:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015021053742&view=1up&seq=5

The discussion and figures are quite interesting (to me), as they tie into the ARA clearance diagrams (for running cars through tunnels) as well as the columns of dimensional data in the ORERs.  Some relevant history as well.

This snippet is the actual change to the official ARA language that was approved by mail ballot:



There were also some minor changes to the Notes in the 1927 standard lettering diagram to bring everything into alignment.  So there should be a 1930/31 revision to that drawing (absent from the 1931 CBC as we have discussed) that has the revised notes as well the the EXW and EXH stencils.

Hope this helps and best regards.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 06:35 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
The CBCs were effectively trade catalogs, and should be considered a secondary source for MCB/ARA/AAR standards or rules.
Dave, I certainly agree. I simply stated what I found to save others the trouble of looking. Now, do you have a copy of the 1929 ARA proceedings and could you quote how the EXH stencil is defined? I think that's what people are looking for, the official word, so to speak.

Dennis Storzek


I notice the ARMOUR meat distributorship branch house

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I was getting rid of old calendars, and I remembered this nice image from the New Haven Railroad 2019 calendar, the illustration for July.
 
 
Beyond the obvious ACF Talgo Train on display in New London CT in 1954 there is yet a lot to see in the image. I enjoy the advertizing and billboards on the extreme right side. The tracks the train is displayed upon are free of weeds, indicating they are likely in regular use, they probably serve as team tracks for freight deliveries. I like the 'wheel stop' type end-of-track bumpers, they are of a construction that is new to my eyes. The WESTERN UNION office certainly catches my eye.
 
But in an effort to remain on topic, I notice the ARMOUR meat distributorship branch house. A company truck in the parking lot, and a New Haven switcher delivering an ARMOUR steel reefer. There appear to be overhead rails (seemingly painted green) for meat transport from the rail siding to the branch house interior.
 
All in all, this makes for a seriously model-genic scene for our steam era freight cars.
 
You can even park your ACF Talgo Train on it and nobody can tell you it is not prototypical! Just don't do it at every op session.
 
Claus Schlund


Re: Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)

Bruce Smith
 

PRR class F35, #470011. The load looks like a smaller version of the Westinghouse turbod generqator carried by the FD2, 16-axle, flat car.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 6, 2020 10:58 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)
 

Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)

A photo from the University of Utah Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6rn40vm

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description:

The 353-megawatt Gadsby Plant is named for George M. Gadsby, a former president of Utah Power & Light Co., now Rocky Mountain Power. Units 1, 2 and 3 were commissioned between 1951 and 1955 on a 2,500-acre site in Salt Lake City. It was fueled primarily by coal until 1987.

Other views:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6c83287

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s60p1r1b

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PRR Depressed Center Flatcar 470011 (1949)

A photo from the University of Utah Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6rn40vm

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Description:

The 353-megawatt Gadsby Plant is named for George M. Gadsby, a former president of Utah Power & Light Co., now Rocky Mountain Power. Units 1, 2 and 3 were commissioned between 1951 and 1955 on a 2,500-acre site in Salt Lake City. It was fueled primarily by coal until 1987.

Other views:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6c83287

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s60p1r1b

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: UP Gondola 63960 In Discharge Mode (1922)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: UP Gondola 63960 In Discharge Mode (1922)

A photo from the University of Utah Library:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s65t5v5t

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit.

Good detail of a G-50-7 car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Tony Thompson
 

Well said, Dave. Sometimes the EXH of a house car is only 3 feet.
Tony Thompson 


On Sep 5, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...> wrote:

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 01:11 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Is it the width at those heights?
Rob has it right, the H dimension that follows the EXW dimension tells you how high up the car the extreme width is. Sometimes it's really low, like at the door latch bars on a plug door reefer. At thirteen feet up, it's likely the upper door track.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

Dennis:

The car lettering diagrams in the CBCs are not always up to date. For example, the diagram accompanying the "1920 Revision" that appears in the 1922 CBC dos not show the journal repack stencil that was adopted in 1920.

The absence of the  EXW and EXH stencils in the 1931 CBC is another example.  But, these stencils were proposed (pp. 616-620) and approved (p. 1020) in the 1929 ARA Proceedings.  Effective date to be March 1, 1930. 

The CBCs were effectively trade catalogs, and should be considered a secondary source for MCB/ARA/AAR standards or rules.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

I looked at the ARA lettering diagram presented in the 1931 CBC, but at that time the arrangement only included EW and EH, which are the width and height of the eaves, with a not explaining that if the latitudinal platform is as wide as the eaves, the height over the platform should be used. I then checked the 1946 CBC, which used the same drawing, with a note that it was last revised in 1936 with the EXW dimension being added, but no mention of the corresponding height. I 'm sure that the data arrangement:

EXW 00-00    H 00-00
EW   00-00    H 00-00

was in use before the war but am at loss to explain why the info in the CBC wasn't updated. We need to chech an AAR field manual from the period, bi, unfortunately, don't have one.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dave Parker
 

In my experience, if you look at multiple ORERs over the years, the outside dimensions are often inconsistent, especially the various heights.  I'm not really sure what changed -- conventions, hardware on the car, other?  I also have seen examples of that H at the EXW being quite low (~5 ft), but am not sure I have seen it in an actual car stencil.

Whenever possible, I follow what's in a period-appropriate photo.  Absent that, I may go with what's in an ORER if it seems to make sense.  Absent that, I fake it.  If I don't know what the correct dimension is, what are the odds that somebody else will (and notice)?
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Aley, Jeff A
 

Thanks guys, but I’m still puzzled. 

 

Now it appears that I don’t understand the ORER.  The ORER has a column labeled, “Dimensions – Outside – Height from rail – To Extreme Width”.  For this car, UP 183586, that dimension is 5’2” (which is probably a grab iron).  Am I misunderstanding this column?  I think not, because I did read the “Key Pages for Standard headings in registration pages” in the back of the ORER reprint (p786 in the NMRA 1953 ORER reprint).

 

All this arose because Jacob Damron asked about dimensional data for a custom decal set he’s making.  I looked up the car in the ORER, and gave him some numbers, but now I fear that I gave him the wrong numbers.  We wouldn’t want the decals to be wrong, now would we?

 

Thanks again for the further education.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2020 2:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 01:11 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:

Is it the width at those heights?

Rob has it right, the H dimension that follows the EXW dimension tells you how high up the car the extreme width is. Sometimes it's really low, like at the door latch bars on a plug door reefer. At thirteen feet up, it's likely the upper door track.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Utah Poultry Producers Cooperative Association Reefers (1928)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Josh and List Members,
 
It is available in RTR form in N scale...
 
 
This also provides one manufacturers interpretation of the color scheme. No guarantees regarding accuracy of course!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Josh
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2020 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photos: Utah Poultry Producers Cooperative Association Reefers (1928)

The Northern Utah Division NMRA did a custom run of this paint scheme through Accurail a few years ago. Every once in a while they show up on ebay.

One of these photos I've never seen before so I wonder if University of Utah only scanned it recently.

There is a replica car painted by Utah Transit Authority on display at the Intermountain Farmers Association grain elevator near the Draper Trax station (IFA is the current incarnation of the Utah Poultry Producers).


Re: image from Homestead, PA in 1915

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 11:44 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
I don’t know if the chain connections were a requirement for these loads. In reviewing the Loading of Materials section of the 1919 Car Builder Directory, I do not see the chain connections noted with loads spanning multiple cars.
Someplace in there was a requirement that multiple cars under one load either be chained together or have the uncoupling mechanism made inoperative; the intent being to keep someone from mindlessly uncoupling the cars and dropping the load. I suspect roads that supplied cars for long loads often just figured they'd save time and expense over the long run if they just built the cars with permanent chains.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 01:11 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Is it the width at those heights?
Rob has it right, the H dimension that follows the EXW dimension tells you how high up the car the extreme width is. Sometimes it's really low, like at the door latch bars on a plug door reefer. At thirteen feet up, it's likely the upper door track.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: Utah Poultry Producers Cooperative Association Reefers (1928)

Ray Breyer
 

From 1928?

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Saturday, September 5, 2020, 01:08:51 PM CDT, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


would anyone have a color photo of
this car?
;-)
thanks
mel perry

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020, 10:46 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photos: Utah Poultry Producers Cooperative Association Reefers (1928)

Photos from the Utah State Historical Society:

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=539941&page=2&facet_format_t=%22image%2Fjpeg%22&q=poultry&facet_setname_s=dha_%2A

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=539856&page=2&facet_format_t=%22image%2Fjpeg%22&q=poultry&facet_setname_s=dha_%2A

https://collections.lib.utah.edu/details?id=539855&page=2&facet_format_t=%22image%2Fjpeg%22&q=poultry&facet_setname_s=dha_%2A

These photos can be enlarged.

North American Despatch refrigerator cars.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Dimensional Data - wrong assumptions

Robert kirkham
 

Is it the width at those heights?

Rob

On Sep 5, 2020, at 11:01 AM, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

Hi Folks,
 
The dimensional data in the attached image doesn’t make sense to me.  I tried to puzzle it out using the ORER, but no luck.  Obviously I have a wrong assumption somewhere.  Here’s my thinking and you can tell me where I’ve gone wrong:
 
EX. W 10 – 5 is the Extreme Width of the car.  It’s the widest point of the car.  H. 13-1 is the Extreme Height of the car.  It’s the highest point on the car (over the running board or brakewheel).
E.W.  9-4 is the Eave Width of the car.  It’s how wide the car is at the eaves, so one will know if it’ll clear a canopy on a loading dock.  H. 14-0 is the height of the car at the eaves, again so that it can clear a canopy.
 
How can the Eave Height be 14-0, which is greater than the Extreme Height of 13-1?  Obviously I’ve misunderstood something, but what?
 
BTW, the ORER gives the “Height, To Extreme Height” as 14-8.  So what, then, is the “H 13-1” next to the EX. W??
 
I don’t think it’s a stencilling error, as I see a similar discrepancy on a UP A-50-21.
 
Thanks for your help,
 
-Jeff
 
<UP 183586 7-30-1950.jpg>


Re: State of Maine Cars

Bob Chapman
 

Victor asks:
I know this has been covered in the past (I looked), but in the more recent time period has anyone come with a accurate car either RTR or as a kit, other than brass?


Here's the Yarmouth car.
Bob Chapman


Re: image from Homestead, PA in 1915

Eric Hansmann
 

Mill gondolas had drop-door ends to haul loads that were longer than the car. These may extend onto another car with a bearing plate for the load to ride upon. The chains are a safety to keep the cars together in case of coupler failure.

 

I don’t know if the chain connections were a requirement for these loads. In reviewing the Loading of Materials section of the 1919 Car Builder Directory, I do not see the chain connections noted with loads spanning multiple cars.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alex Huff
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2020 11:53 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] image from Homestead, PA in 1915

 

The BR&P gon has what I think are "safety chains" on the end sill.  Three links are to the right of the coupler, two links and a hook are to the left.  Was this "system" ever an industry requirement?  If not, how widespread was it?  When was it discontinued or least no longer maintained.
   


Re: State of Maine Cars

Brian Carlson
 

Eastern seaboard models will do their XIH in HO too. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Sep 5, 2020, at 2:02 PM, reporterllc via groups.io <reporterllc@...> wrote:

I know this has been covered in the past (I looked), but in the more recent time period has anyone come with a accurate car either RTR or as a kit, other than brass?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: 40ft Pratt truss single sheathed boxcar

mel perry
 

well considering that it has an espee
herald on the car, fair assumption
that it is a t&no car
;-)
mel perry